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Presidential Debates

The_Animus said:
Clinton admonished Trump for saying "Women do not deserve equal pay unless they do as good of a job as a man".

Apparently Clinton doesn't believe in performance based pay.

Clinton 2016: Women deserve equal pay for doing a worse job than a man.
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Yeah, she slipped up there. That isn't what she meant though. Didn't matter since Trump didn't notice.
 
acbytesla said:
Yeah, she slipped up there. That isn't what she meant though. Didn't matter since Trump didn't notice.
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I remember thinking that moment was a great opportunity for Trump. He let that pass but spent forever and a day arguing with the moderator about his support for the war in Iraq. Screwy priorities and a missed opportunity.
 
aleCcowaN said:
He does!

I was instructed here to believe in everything Trump says, so when he says the contrary is because he lied before (never before he lies now).

In that spirit Trump said he won the debate according to a CBS poll. A non-existent one.
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The accusation was that Trump said "global warming is a hoax made by the Chinese." Trump responded with "I never said that." But Isn't there a difference between "I never said that" and "I was joking when I said that"? I think even "I never said that seriously" is different from what Trump said. And "I do not believe that" is different as well.

I understand that he had to very succinct because he was trying to talk over Clinton, but surely he could have communicated his actual position more clearly in his brief response.
 
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Civet said:
I remember thinking that moment was a great opportunity for Trump. He let that pass but spent forever and a day arguing with the moderator about his support for the war in Iraq. Screwy priorities and a missed opportunity.
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Trump will jump through any hoop and contort himself into any pose to avoid saying "I was wrong," and to avoid be labeled a loser.

The Pope claims to be infallible only when speaking Ex Cathedra. Trump considers himself infallible on everything.
 
I don't get how online polls could show Trump winning by any means that we would grade such an event. Then again, I'm not shocked for some reason.
 
acbytesla said:
There was a time in the US when the top marginal tax rate was a whopping 90 percent. That is what it was under the Eisenhower administration. But few people paid it.
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The top rate applied to purely rentier income. There were set-offs for what was deemed productive investment, which the tax system was designed to encourage. This was general in the post-War West when governments were expected to have strategic oversight of the economy. Keynesian times. Times of high social mobility and falling inequality. And high estate taxes.

That all changed in the late 70's with Thatcher-Reaganism, supply-side economics, the Chicago School Discontinuity, neo-classicism, call it what you like : it's led to massive concentrations of wealth conserved in dynasties, of course, and the process continues. It cannot end well.
 
Ladewig said:
And "I do not believe that" is different as well.
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Now, we're in the

-You said Global Warming was a hoax
-I do not believe that. I don not believe that!
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part of Trump's act.

His figures aren't good enough and he's desperate to scrape together that elusive 2%-3% that would win him 4-5 states more and the presidency.

But I suspect that % is made of many people that will throw themselves in the arms of Hillary if they hear him asserting AGW is a hoax. He also may lose voters if he says it isn't. So I'm expecting Trump to throw a tightrope act about this 'til November.
 
Clinton admonished Trump for saying "Women do not deserve equal pay unless they do as good of a job as a man".
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Fast Eddie B said:
Karen and I both noticed that. Seemed like a reasonable position.
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The problem is that there is a history of women being paid less then men because they are women. I think the difficulty is, the quoted statement could be construed as meaning (and probably has been taken this way), the pay scale for women will be lower unless and until each woman employee 'proves' she is doing as good a job as a man would do.

First, prove to who?
As an example, should the military pay a woman in pay grade E-4 less money than the men until her supervisors have rated her performance as being "equal to a man's?"

Maybe it's the former trade unionist in me, but I think we have to be careful about claiming it's okay for certain classes of people to be "paid less" than other classes of people until they prove themselves. I think with her legal background, Hillary Clinton probably shares the same unease.
 
Civet said:
I remember thinking that moment was a great opportunity for Trump. He let that pass but spent forever and a day arguing with the moderator about his support for the war in Iraq. Screwy priorities and a missed opportunity.
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He can't help himself.

Trump's word salad reminds me of Palin.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Clinton admonished Trump for saying "Women do not deserve equal pay unless they do as good of a job as a man".
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Karen and I both noticed that.

Seemed like a reasonable position.
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What I notice is the sexism in Trump's sentence. Does it go both ways, 'Men do not deserve equal pay unless they do as good of a job as a woman"? I can't imagine that's what Trump had in mind.

Since the movement's slogan is, 'equal pay for equal work', it's a given that is what Clinton is saying. If I heard Trump say, "Women do not deserve equal pay unless they do as good of a job as a man", I would admonish him for his sexist comment implying the default position is, women don't do as good of a job as men.
 
I think there may have been real damage to Trump last night.

What is Trump's big selling point? It's him. It's his personality. It's the idea that he is not an ordinary human being. He's super wealthy and super competent. It's him, and only he can fix the horrible state of this country.


Last night he looked awful. Whiny. Lying. ("I never said that") Generally unlikable and not in command of his facts, his feelings, or the general state of the debate. In his post debate analysis he seemed even more whiny. (Did anyone catch the "I had a bad microphone" complete with "I don't know if it was set up that way"? Pathetic.)

So all he has is himself to sell, and his product didn't look very good last night.

He'll still get a good share of the vote. He is still the fairly solid Republican. He's still pro-business, anti-regulation, cut taxes and pretend that doesn't affect the national debt candidate, so most Republicans will vote for him. However, when it comes to core values and ideology, he isn't as strong as Romney. He'll pick up some Hillary haters, but there are plenty of Donald haters who would otherwise vote for a Republican to offset those. Given all that, I just can't see him making up any ground above where Romney got, barring some unforeseen and strange event in the next 41 days.
 
newyorkguy said:
The problem is that there is a history of women being paid less then men because they are women. I think the difficulty is, the quoted statement could be construed as meaning (and probably has been taken this way), the pay scale for women will be lower unless and until each woman
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I'm sure we can all agree on that, but the problem is that the statement Clinton objected to is also something we'd agree on. Gender should play no part in pay rates; ability can.

ETA : It was a blunder, but of course Trump missed it. Too busy making lots of his own.
 
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Segnosaur said:
From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-debate-ads_us_57e9e8b1e4b024a52d2a3f3e
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump thinks it’s very unfair that Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton airs videos of his words on national television, he said on Monday.Trump complained about her ads both during and after the first presidential debate. He said Clinton “spent hundreds of millions of dollars on negative ads on me, many of which are absolutely untrue.”... “And I will tell you this, Lester, it is not nice, and I don’t deserve that, but it’s certainly not a nice thing that she’s done.”
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It's not fair, Hillary keeps playing ads with me saying horrible things I said, and it makes me look bad!

And don't forget, as other posters mentioned: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/donald-trump-microphone-debate-228754
Republican nominee Donald J. Trump complained in the spin room that his debate mic wasn't working right
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The microphone wasn't working eight, it transmitted what I said exactly the way I said it rather than making it sound as good as it was in my head!
 
newyorkguy said:
Maybe it's the former trade unionist in me, but I think we have to be careful about claiming it's okay for certain classes of people to be "paid less" than other classes of people until they prove themselves. I think with her legal background, Hillary Clinton probably shares the same unease.
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I think, with her legal background, Clinton's failure to parse the sentence carefully was a blunder. Trump, had he the wit, could have come back with "Are you saying women deserve equal pay with men even if they don't do as good a job as men? Because they're women?". That would bruise.

If you've been an active trade unionist (or spent much time in the pub, for that matter) you've probably heard men claim that women don't have to do as good a job as men to get equal pay because otherwise they complain about discrimination and it's all so unfair. These are Trump's people.
 
steve s said:
Denver said:
If so, I would expect his tax returns to be released very close to election day,
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One minute before midnight, so that he can claim that he released them before election day.

Steve S
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Dunno... for his 2015 taxes he could've filed an extension... paperwork wouldn't even be due until this Oct 15th.
 
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