JFK Conspiracy Theories IV: The One With The Whales

[MicahJava]

There is no need for extraordinary evidence. It is not an extraordinary claim.
The records of the autopsy disagree with you.
The photographs disagree with you.
The men themselves confirm the photos are correct.

You seem to misunderstand how this works. You seem to think that the records must be wrong based on human memory some time later.

Human memory is flawed. It is not a recording, it is a way of re-imagining events.

The whole point of autopsy records, the whole reason for those photographs, and diagrams, are because human memory is flawed.

There is a photograph of a wound, where the records place it, and the doctors confirm it in their testimony.

What DOES require extraordinary evidence is:

1) An alternate or additional entry point for a wound.
2) That the autopsy photographs record the ruler (which apparently nobody knows how to use) being placed to offer scale to the known entry wound, if it is not a wound.
3) The hair being parted to reveal a wound that is not a wound.
4) The wound that is not a wound being the focus of the photograph.
5) The known exit point of the ejecta, if not from the wound you deny.
6) The alleged falsification of documents.
7) The alleged presence of a silenced and/or frangible bullet.
8) The alleged presence of a weapon capable of firing said bullet.
9) The alleged presence of shooters to use these weapons.

Not claims. Not unsupported testimony. Actual physical, verifiable evidence.

So far you have supplied none of a suitable standard.

Neither have you supplied a full theory for the events of the day.

What you keep posting is not convincing.

You know you are wrong, and the exact opposite of everything you're saying is the true version. Who are you really talking to? Not anybody who has been keeping up with the thread.

 

[Tomtomkent]

You know you are wrong, and the exact opposite of everything you're saying is the true version. Who are you really talking to? Not anybody who has been keeping up with the thread.

Oh, I don't know. I think anybody reading this thread is capable of looking at the evidence you present, and ask why exactly you insist the only visible wound on the back of the head, that matches the records, is apparently to be ignored.
They will read the responses to your snippets of testimony, in which context is applied, and your interpretation shown to be wanting.
They can decide for themselves your expertise or otherwise at analysing photographs and xrays.

They can ask for themselves where the evidence is for any other weapon, be it frangible, silenced, or some other exotic complication.

They can wonder for themselves why exactly you have so much trouble showing any clear indication of the wound where you keep insisting it must be.

But they could just comment. They could tell me what I am missing, and offer to explain it in a more convincing way than you.

In fact, they can respond right now, and tell you they are supporting your ideas. So far it seems nobody else taking part in the conversation (who I have assumed are the ones following it) all seem to disagree with you. But if there is anybody else following this, offer me your views.

 

[traxy]

Connally literally saw the Zapruder film and placed his shot as shortly after he emerged from the sign. The only evidence for what you're saying is that after Z160, Connally appears to turns his head very fast to the right (of course, Connally himself interpreted the right-head-turn he was talking about as coming at Z238).

Rosemary Willis has no strong recollection of the assassination because it happened when she was 10 years old and was asked about it when she was 26. She thought they maybe she stopped and turned her head in the Z film reacting to a shot, but her father Phillip Willis told Gerald Posner that he might've called out to her at that moment. There's almost no evidence besides Rosemary's head turning pretty fast.

Connally placed his wounding at Z231, which means the first shot that didn't hit him came earlier. His reaction to that first missed shot was a rapid turn to the right.

Where does Connally rapidly turn to the right prior to Z231? Frame 160.

Rosemary Willis was adamant that she stopped running and looked in the direction of the depository in reaction to hearing a gunshot. She breaks stride and starts slowing down at Z177. I don't give a **** whether you consider her memory accurate or not, she is an early first shot witness.

 

[Elagabalus]

... We know that the EOP wound existed, but the known brain damage was inconsistent with that wound having any relation to the large head wound. Two shots to the head is the most reasonable interpretation, unless you want to say the EOP wound was caused by a ricochet from a missed shot.

This is entirely your subjective speculation of the photographs.

You are not an expert.

Two shots to the head is not most reasonable interpretation.

 

[Elagabalus]

... But if there is anybody else following this, offer me your views.

Perusing Patspeer, I think the lower entry wound location would show that the fatal bullet was not fired from the TSBD but actually fired from the roof of DAL-Tex building.

Or it was two shooters firing simultaneously.

So Oswald was still involved?

Or something like that.

 

[Axxman300]

Holland lies. He thinks he can see a bullet hole in a traffic light from old footage, but evidence came forth that the traffic lights already came with that gap. Total failure. There is no eyewitness evidence for an early loud shot before the 190-224 reactions. His television program also contains a hoaxed reenactment of the single bullet theory (driving the car further down the road because otherwise a laser trajectory would exit out of the chest of Kennedy).

Wow, good research, Skippy.

I forget, you only waste your time with delusional Woo sites.

Had you bothered to watch the video - from the 6th Floor Museum people - he DOESN'T SAY THERE WAS A HOLE - instead, his work evolved to the steel arm of the traffic signal structure. He lucked out, after a car knocked the pole over his team flew into Dallas to inspect it. They then conducted ballistics tests at the same range the CBS News team had conducted the MC tests, and using an MC they were able to recreate the deflected shot off of the arm multiple times.

Key to his thesis are the distributions of the shell casings on the floor where they were found. Two were right up against the wall while one was further away. A steep-angled first shot gets a shell casing to bounce off of supporting boxes and fall further than the last two shots where the rifle is at lower angle truer to the wall. He ran tests with a former Marine who was the same height and body type as Oswald from a replica of the snipers nest. He match the shell drops multiple times.

The presentation does everything that no CTist ever does. First, he conducted his own interviews with the people who were at Dealey Plaza. He interviewed the FBI agents and reviewed their work for the WC (instead of throwing it out like some morons do). He reviewed the FBI recreations from Dealey Plaza in 1963, which were all filmed, and are all ignored by CTers. He assembled a team of qualified experts to conduct experiments, and surveys of the crime scene, and ran countless scenarios until he had eliminated most of them.

I know JFK CT loons will never agree with him because his work tightens the ring of evidence around Oswald, but having watched the entire presentation it did give me something to consider. There are no histrionics, no bomb-throwing, or galvanizing statements in his presentation. Just the background, the hows, wheres, and whys of his thesis. He ends with two reasons why Oswald missed the first shot: Buck Fever, or the arm of the light pole. Either one works.

The concept that the Zapruder Film only shows the last two shots is one I'm happy to chew on for a while because it doesn't involve the mafia, CIA, 20 snipers, or non-existent silencers. Just a guy who didn't want to run out of film in his movie camera.

 

[Axxman300]

Perusing Patspeer, I think the lower entry wound location would show that the fatal bullet was not fired from the TSBD but actually fired from the roof of DAL-Tex building.

Or it was two shooters firing simultaneously.

So Oswald was still involved?

Or something like that.

He's ignoring the fact that Elm Street goes downhill from the 6th floor. His concept only works if it was level, and it ain't.

 

[MicahJava]

Connally placed his wounding at Z231, which means the first shot that didn't hit him came earlier. His reaction to that first missed shot was a rapid turn to the right.

Where does Connally rapidly turn to the right prior to Z231? Frame 160.

Connally personally placed the approximate time of the first shot at the time Kennedy disappears behind the sign in the Z film. He placed the limousine at around that time in a diagram for the Warren Commission. So, frame 190. I've been advocating for an early loud shot before the 224 reactions, but definitely not Z160. Connally said he remembers thinking the shooting was from an automatic rifle, and that he doesn't remember hearing the shot that struck him. Re-read the full history of Connally's statements with this in mind.

11/27/1963 TV interview with Martin Agronsky:

”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit and I knew I had been hit badly.

There is no time he can be seen really turning to his left. Maybe he meant his right. When he says he heard the first shot and then "turned to look", followed with "the president had slumped", that makes he think that he's talking about his reactions prior to Z285, the time Robert Harris is theorizing there was a loud and startling gunshot. Note that he does not actually say that he perceived hearing the shot that hit him. Also, I do not want to deny the photographic evidence that he was hit moments before this time (at 222-224). So, I'm wondering if this bit of dialog was chronologically out of order.

I knew the President had been hit and I said, “My God, they are going to kill us all.”

Most researchers tend to think the photographic evidence matches for him saying that at Z255 to 287.

Then there was a third shot and the President was hit again and we thought then very seriously. I had still retained consciousness but the President had slumped in Mrs. Kennedy's lap and when he was hit the second time she said, or the first time—it all happened in such a brief span--she said “Oh, my God, they have killed my husband—Jack, Jack.” After the third shot, the next thing that occurred—I was conscious--the Secret Service man, of course, the chauffeur, had pulled out of the line--they said, “Get out of here…”

12/13/1963 FBI Report:

“Governor Connally stated “First sense or realization of anything unusual I became conscious of a shot or what sounded like a gunshot. I knew it came from my right rear. I instinctively turned to my right to look back and as I did so I sensed more than I saw that President Kennedy was hit. As I turned I realized something was amiss with President Kennedy and then I turned back to my left a little and as I did so I got hit with a bullet in my right shoulder just below the shoulder blade and arm pit about four inches from my right side.

"Instinctively turned to my right" indicates that this could have been a very fast reaction. Another interesting comment is that "I sensed more than I saw the President was hit".

This bullet pierced my chest coming out the right side slightly below my right nipple. It entered my right arm above the wrist, passed through and then lodged in my left inner leg just above my knee where the bullet apparently split. I believe I remarked “Oh my God, they are going to kill us all!” Realizing I had been hit I crumpled over to Mrs. Connally and she pulled me over towards her…I was conscious of a third shot and heard it…we were all splattered with what I thought was brain tissue from President Kennedy.”

Still sounding Z285-ey.

…When Governor Connally was asked about the elapsed time between the first and last shot he remarked “Fast, my God it was fast. It seemed like a split second. Just that quick” and he snapped his fingers three times rapidly to illustrate the time and said “unbelievably quick…Governor Connally felt the shots were fired so fast the assassin had hit him by accident on the second shot.”

That indicates that there's a possibility that his recollections about being hit after he had significantly turned to his right may be chronologically confused.

4/21/64 Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. SPECTER: As the automobile turned left onto Elm from Houston, what did occur there, Governor?

Governor CONNALLY: We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street. We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot.

150-200 feet down Elm street? Doesn't sound like he's describing the first loud shot at z150s-z160s.

I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.

If you ignore where he says he turned to look back "over my right shoulder", maybe you could say this description fits best with a 222-225 shot.

Connally's statements are looking more ambiguous than they're usually spun.

Mr. SPECTER: Governor, you have described hearing a first shot and a third shot. Did you hear a second shot?

Governor CONNALLY: No; I did not.

Mr. SPECTER: What is your best estimate as to the timespan between the first shot which you heard and the shot which you heretofore characterized as the third shot?

Governor CONNALLY: It was a very brief span of time; oh, I would have to say a matter of seconds. I don't know, 10, 12 seconds. It was extremely rapid, so much so that again I thought that whoever was firing must be firing with an automatic rifle because of the rapidity of the shots; a very short period of time.

These statements fit the scenario of the first loud shot being at ~190+, followed shortly by him being hit at 222-224 (the lapel flap).


We also find this in the Warren Commission deposition:

Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, I hand you a photograph, marked Commission Exhibit 699, which is an overhead shot of Dealey Plaza depicting the intersection of Houston and Elm, and ask you if you would take a look at that photograph and mark for us, if you would, with one of the red pencils at your right, the position of the President's automobile as nearly as you can where it was at the time the shooting first started.

Governor CONNALLY. I would say it would be about where this truck is here. It looks like a truck. I would say about in that neighborhood.

This is CE699:

The circle is marked at around the time of Z190-224.

4/22/64 Warren Commission memorandum:

"(d) After viewing the films and slides, the Governor was of the opinion that he had been hit by frame 231. (e) The Governor stated that after being hit, he looked to his right, looked to his left, and then turned to his right. He felt the President might have been hit by frame 190. He heard only two shots and felt sure that the shots he heard were the first and third shots. He is positive that he was hit after he heard the first shot, i.e., by the second shot, and by that shot only."

There you have it.

Rosemary Willis was adamant that she stopped running and looked in the direction of the depository in reaction to hearing a gunshot. She breaks stride and starts slowing down at Z177. I don't give a **** whether you consider her memory accurate or not, she is an early first shot witness.

There is no way I'm trusting the recollections of 26-year-old Rosemary Willis. Can you get a crumbier witness? I trust Phillip's postulations more. He was there, too.

 

[MicahJava]

Wow, good research, Skippy.

I forget, you only waste your time with delusional Woo sites.

Had you bothered to watch the video - from the 6th Floor Museum people - he DOESN'T SAY THERE WAS A HOLE - instead, his work evolved to the steel arm of the traffic signal structure. He lucked out, after a car knocked the pole over his team flew into Dallas to inspect it. They then conducted ballistics tests at the same range the CBS News team had conducted the MC tests, and using an MC they were able to recreate the deflected shot off of the arm multiple times.

Key to his thesis are the distributions of the shell casings on the floor where they were found. Two were right up against the wall while one was further away. A steep-angled first shot gets a shell casing to bounce off of supporting boxes and fall further than the last two shots where the rifle is at lower angle truer to the wall. He ran tests with a former Marine who was the same height and body type as Oswald from a replica of the snipers nest. He match the shell drops multiple times.

The presentation does everything that no CTist ever does. First, he conducted his own interviews with the people who were at Dealey Plaza. He interviewed the FBI agents and reviewed their work for the WC (instead of throwing it out like some morons do). He reviewed the FBI recreations from Dealey Plaza in 1963, which were all filmed, and are all ignored by CTers. He assembled a team of qualified experts to conduct experiments, and surveys of the crime scene, and ran countless scenarios until he had eliminated most of them.

I know JFK CT loons will never agree with him because his work tightens the ring of evidence around Oswald, but having watched the entire presentation it did give me something to consider. There are no histrionics, no bomb-throwing, or galvanizing statements in his presentation. Just the background, the hows, wheres, and whys of his thesis. He ends with two reasons why Oswald missed the first shot: Buck Fever, or the arm of the light pole. Either one works.

The concept that the Zapruder Film only shows the last two shots is one I'm happy to chew on for a while because it doesn't involve the mafia, CIA, 20 snipers, or non-existent silencers. Just a guy who didn't want to run out of film in his movie camera.

Holland's BS evolved. Just read the article, or anything else about his TV special or theories written by the real fact-checkers, and his distortions are shown to be what they are. The Lost Bullet may be the worst hitpiece ever made about the assassination.

I agree with you that Oswald would've choked and missed with his crappy rifle if he did it. The problem is you can give me one witness who said Kennedy continued smiling and waving after the first loud missed shot.

 

[kookbreaker]

Holland lies. He thinks he can see a bullet hole in a traffic light from old footage, but evidence came forth that the traffic lights already came with that gap. Total failure.

You know you are wrong, and the exact opposite of everything you're saying is the true version.

Mr. Holland is a lying liar who lies, not some guy with a pet theory. I don't know when the program was filmed, but for about a year it was known for a fact that the gap in the traffic sign was not a bullet hole,

.

There is no way I'm trusting the recollections of 26-year-old Rosemary Willis. Can you get a crumbier witness?

I'm getting the strong vibe of 'This is how things are becuase I say so!' here.

 

[MicahJava]

.



I'm getting the strong vibe of 'This is how things are becuase I say so!' here.

kookbreaker, what are your opinions about the exact shooting sequence in Dealey Plaza or the location of the small wound in the back of the head?

 

[Elagabalus]

kookbreaker, what are your opinions about the exact shooting sequence in Dealey Plaza or the location of the small wound in the back of the head?

Who cares? Let's move on. How does Oswald not shoot officer J.D. Tippit and then not try to shoot Officer McDonald with same gun when he is apprehended at the Texas Theatre?

Don't keep us in suspense.

 

[kookbreaker]

kookbreaker, what are your opinions about the exact shooting sequence in Dealey Plaza or the location of the small wound in the back of the head?

My opinion? I think Lee Harvery Oswald, with his cheap but reliable surplus Caracno fired 3 shots from the book depository, mising with the first, hitting Connely and Kennedy with the second, and then getting the headshot with the 3rd. He then fled the scene and later killed officer Tippet, and tried to kill another officer in a movie theater when being arrested.

As for the wound, what of it? Nothing about it location screams '2nd shooter!' and the utter silliness of things like subsonic bullets turns such arguments into a bad farce.

I've talked about this before in this thread, perhaps before your time. Either way what relevence are my opinions to your silly, arrogant and unsupported statements I noted above?

 

[MicahJava]

I think Lee Harvery Oswald, with his cheap but reliable surplus Caracno fired 3 shots from the book depository, mising with the first, hitting Connely and Kennedy with the second, and then getting the headshot with the 3rd.

I really think this whole idea of a "first missed shot" is mostly based on misinterpretations of eyewitness evidence. Is there any good reason to think the first shot missed?

As for the wound, what of it? Nothing about it location screams '2nd shooter!'

Why? We know this wound existed. There's no evidence of brain damage consistent with an EOP entry wound exiting out of the large head wound location. That's also probably ballistically impossible. The closest thing to the official story you can get is if the MC at the snipers next somehow (after the 313 head shot) made a small tangential wound or some kind of ricochet hitting that area.

Any investigation into JFK should include the EOP wound, the nature of the wound, and how it got there.

and the utter silliness of things like subsonic bullets turns such arguments into a bad farce.

No, not really. The postulation of subsonic weapons/ammunition is based on some evidence, here's some off the top of my head:

1. From basic deduction of the eyewitness accounts, we can understand that there probably was no gunshot before z190. Since Kennedy and Connally indisputably react to a gunshot by z224, we already postulate that something more sophisticated than a Carcano was involved (because according to experts in firearms, the scope from the Carcano would have been very inaccurate if the rifle was just assembled, and it needed to be zeroed-in with a starter shot that was unlikely to hit any target). But also importantly, let's remember that Connally always swore that he was hit very quickly after he heard the first shot, and that he didn't remember hearing the shot that his him. What does that sound like to you?

2. There is also the information about a bullet that hit an area near a manhole cover and was recovered in the grass. There is indeed a long mark still on the curb, but it isn't that deep and therefore it may be incompatible with a high-powered rifle shot.

While it was initially reported to be a "rifle bullet", one rumor circulated that it was a .45 caliber bullet recovered. This opens up the possibility that something like the .45 De Lisle silenced carbine was used.

3. The testimony about Kennedy's back wound being shallow and a downward angled tract

4. The information about an actual whole bullet being recovered from Kennedy's back

5. The information about an old shell casing discovered on the roof of the Dallas County Records Building, which had a dented lip, which is sometimes done to fit a plastic sabot.

6. The small head wound was reported to be an elliptical 15x6mm, "ragged", and "slanting".

Any investigation into the Dealey Plaza shooting should factor in the possibilities of noise-suppressed weapons/ammunition.

 

[Axxman300]

Holland's BS evolved. Just read the article, or anything else about his TV special or theories written by the real fact-checkers, and his distortions are shown to be what they are. The Lost Bullet may be the worst hitpiece ever made about the assassination.

20 minutes on Google lead me to only JFK CT sites, they're the only ones with a problem with it.

This guy? Not so much:

http://dyingwords.net/missing-bullet-jfk-assassination/#sthash.DF04M6Yo.dpbs

[QUOTEI agree with you that Oswald would've choked and missed with his crappy rifle if he did it. The problem is you can give me one witness who said Kennedy continued smiling and waving after the first loud missed shot.][/QUOTE]

If the shot came earlier then he did.

 

[Axxman300]

I really think this whole idea of a "first missed shot" is mostly based on misinterpretations of eyewitness evidence. Is there any good reason to think the first shot missed?

Why is it okay for YOU to cherry pick witness statements to warp into your theory, but nobody else can.

Don't forget, YOU have never been to Dallas, and you can no working concept of the killing ground, so all of the witness statements exist in a contextless vacuum where you can kick them around.

There's no evidence of brain damage consistent with an EOP entry wound exiting out of the large head wound location. That's also probably ballistically impossible.

Again, the head wound is consistent with an impact from a 6.5×52mm round. You won't bother to learn ballistics, and forensics is much harder and nuanced than you seem willing to do the amount of background work to understand.

The postulation of subsonic weapons/ammunition is based on some evidence

No. There is zero evidence of subsonic ammunition. Again, you need to get to a shooting range and fire a weapon and talk with people who shoot. There is no way any trained assassin is going to risk trying to kill at even the minimum range from the Grassy Knoll with a suppressed weapon using subsonic rounds...unless he was firing a machinegun like a Sten, and spraying the limo, but even then - why use a silencer?

You might as well list Bigfoot as a suspect because that is more likely, based on the non-evidence, than a silenced weapon.

Since Kennedy and Connally indisputably react to a gunshot by z224, we already postulate that something more sophisticated than a Carcano was involved (because according to experts in firearms, the scope from the Carcano would have been very inaccurate if the rifle was just assembled, and it needed to be zeroed-in with a starter shot that was unlikely to hit any target).

Really? Okay, list a weapon "more sophisticated" than the MC. You could use a word like "reliable", but in 1963 the long guns were basically the same in function. I would have gone with a Springfield myself, but there's not a big difference between the two with the exception of the SIZE OF THE ROUND.

And the SIZE OF THE ROUND (6.5×52mm ) is what ends the debate as far as rifles go in Dealey Plaza because the round is exclusive to the MC.

Again, the people you think are experts really are not. The Carcano is still a collectable rifle today, and it's still affordable, and it can still kill two or three people with one round if you line the shot up right.

But also importantly, let's remember that Connally always swore that he was hit very quickly after he heard the first shot, and that he didn't remember hearing the shot that his him. What does that sound like to you?

Sound like a guy who got shot from behind. He is probably the least reliable witness in Dealey Plaza.

There is also the information about a bullet that hit an area near a manhole cover and was recovered in the grass. There is indeed a long mark still on the curb, but it isn't that deep and therefore it may be incompatible with a high-powered rifle shot.

Between the MC and a subsonic .45 round, the damage screams "MC". You need to get to a range and do some shooting.

The testimony about Kennedy's back wound being shallow and a downward angled tract

Rumor and misinterpretation. The medical evidence shows it was a through and through.

The information about an actual whole bullet being recovered from Kennedy's back

Rumor, never corroborated by anyone who worked on JFK.

The information about an old shell casing discovered on the roof of the Dallas County Records Building, which had a dented lip, which is sometimes done to fit a plastic sabot.

This one comes from Jim Mars. The casing was found in the 1970s, and there is no way to determine when it was fired, as is the sabot theory, which is speculation. Thus, it is not relevant information.

Any investigation into the Dealey Plaza shooting should factor in the possibilities of noise-suppressed weapons/ammunition.

Based on the evidence and the forensics this would be a farce.

 

[MicahJava]

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/medical_interviews/audio/ARRB_Purdy.htm

This is a 1996 AARB interview of HSCA staffer Andy Purdy.

Skip to 31:29 of part one: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/medical_interviews/audio/ARRB_Purdy_S1.mp3

Purdy: "During the course of that meeting, as I think the transcript shows, when they were- in fact, somebody said 'this shouldn't- we shouldn't even be recording this'. And I think it was Petty who took, I believe it was Humes, out of the room to basically set him straight. Basically 'you're just wrong, you're just clearly wrong, this is not something evidentiary'... And that's why they keep things on- is the whole thing altered or whatever. It's like Humes is lying, we don't even have to. Or he's mistaken, or he's being overly firm about something that doesn't have evidentiary signifigance. And unless he takes his stupid, incompetent position, which is the lower thing's the entrance hole. I mean, we're practically- he's practically down to the shirt."

There you have it, proof that Dr. Humes was coerced into agreeing with the cowlick placement of the small head wound. Just like he was coerced into raising the back wound for the Rydberg drawings. There goes the closest thing you can call evidence for the higher placement of the small head wound. The only other evidence for that red spot being an entry wound is badgeman-esque.

 

[Axxman300]

There you have it, proof that Dr. Humes ...blah, blah, blah....

No, first off, nobody knows what was said when they left the room, if this even happened, and thus it falls into speculation - not proof. Dr. Humes actually burned his original notes because they had blood stains on them, but not the similarly blood stained noted of the other doctor because he said he would never destroy another doctor's work. So right off of the bat, he destroys his original notes all by himself on his own personal motivations, and not some black-hat cartoon conspiracy.

In a real trial I don't think the defense nor the prosecution would waste much time on cross exam with the guy because he seems like he could undermine both sides of the case from his personal quirks.

 

[MicahJava]

Why is it okay for YOU to cherry pick witness statements to warp into your theory, but nobody else can.

Don't forget, YOU have never been to Dallas, and you can no working concept of the killing ground, so all of the witness statements exist in a contextless vacuum where you can kick them around.

I can read. I do not think there is any decent evidence in the whole eyewitness record that the first loud shot occurred before z190. The only other evidence, besides eyewitness evidence and the controversial dictabelt tape, is A. The Zapruder Film blurrs slightly after z160, B. Connolly's head appears to turn quite fast to the right after z160, C. Rosemary Willis starts slowing down starting shortly after z160 (however, does not come to a complete stop and turn her head shortly after z190). All of which are not extraordinary evidence. You are proposing that a loud Carcano shot occurred in Dealey Plaza and Kennedy responded by smiling and waving to the crowd like nothing happened. No witness ever stated that Kennedy smiled and waved after the first shot. The witnesses are most likely describing the first loud shot as occurring at z190-224.

Again, the head wound is consistent with an impact from a 6.5×52mm round. You won't bother to learn ballistics, and forensics is much harder and nuanced than you seem willing to do the amount of background work to understand.

Fire a 6.5x52mm round into a ballistics dummy, with a proper angle of elevation, into the back of it's head at the EOP location. Call me when it exits out of the top-right side of the head. The head wound may be consistent with a cowlick entry wound, but try that with where the wound really was. Then explain how the brain damage of the ballistics dummy is similar to the brain damage in the official medical evidence.

No. There is zero evidence of subsonic ammunition. Again, you need to get to a shooting range and fire a weapon and talk with people who shoot. There is no way any trained assassin is going to risk trying to kill at even the minimum range from the Grassy Knoll with a suppressed weapon using subsonic rounds...unless he was firing a machinegun like a Sten, and spraying the limo, but even then - why use a silencer?

You might as well list Bigfoot as a suspect because that is more likely, based on the non-evidence, than a silenced weapon.

The nature of the EOP wound is some of the best evidence for a fourth shot that may have been low-velocity or somehow noise suppressed. This is obviously the reason why these government robots weren't having it when the evidence was clear that the small head wound was by the EOP.

Really? Okay, list a weapon "more sophisticated" than the MC. You could use a word like "reliable", but in 1963 the long guns were basically the same in function. I would have gone with a Springfield myself, but there's not a big difference between the two with the exception of the SIZE OF THE ROUND.

And the SIZE OF THE ROUND (6.5×52mm ) is what ends the debate as far as rifles go in Dealey Plaza because the round is exclusive to the MC.

Again, the people you think are experts really are not. The Carcano is still a collectable rifle today, and it's still affordable, and it can still kill two or three people with one round if you line the shot up right.

We were discussing the existence of this technology in the early 1960's, remember? Like the .22 74 Winchester silenced rifle, the Silenced Springfield M1903A4, and the .45 De Lisle silenced carbine?

Sound like a guy who got shot from behind. He is probably the least reliable witness in Dealey Plaza.

You do see the problem if there was no shot before z190-224, right? Connally always swore that he was hit a moment after the first loud shot, and he always said he didn't hear the shot that hit him.

Between the MC and a subsonic .45 round, the damage screams "MC". You need to get to a range and do some shooting.

I was, of course, talking about a possible shot that presumably missed and hit the concrete curb next to the manhole cover, leaving that shallow mark.

Rumor and misinterpretation. The medical evidence shows it was a through and through.

There is no medical evidence suggesting the back wound and throat wound are connected, IMO not even the slightest hint that a fragment could've exited the throat.

A compilation of evidence for a shallow, low-angled back wound that I'm going by is here, at page 506 of the PDF: http://krusch.com/books/Impossible_Case_Against_Lee_Harvey_Oswald.pdf

Rumor, never corroborated by anyone who worked on JFK.

Check out page 361 of the pdf link above. I think the evidence is solid enough for it to be a serious possibility. Random bullets don't just show up in investigations when they shouldn't be.

This one comes from Jim Mars. The casing was found in the 1970s, and there is no way to determine when it was fired, as is the sabot theory, which is speculation. Thus, it is not relevant information.

I think it's a significant detail that it was "weathered" on one side, and that the casing had an unnatural "crimp" on it's side. Who even thinks to stage such elaborately delicious evidence?

I'm just going by page 350 of Impossible. The evidence is pretty interesting.

Of course, this is getting into the realm of things that we cannot know for sure, but these possibilities have to be examined with the perspective of the EOP wound and any other unambiguous discoveries.

 

[Elagabalus]

I can read. <<snip>>

Uh-huh. Cool story, bro. You're workin' yourself into a lather. Once again:

How does Oswald not shoot officer J.D. Tippit and then not try to shoot Officer McDonald with same gun when he is apprehended at the Texas Theatre?

Big picture time ...