Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Rubbish. I would never condone any violence of any sort, other than reasonable self-defence.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
OK fair enough. Pic of the iron pyrite (circa 15cm x 14cm x 9cm) and weighs apx 7lbs 2 oz / 2.81 kg (ETA: not accurate, as difficult to measure as it is differs from angle to angle, actual weight nearer 9lb 2oz/3.62kg than 7.125lb, as centre of gravity on scales is not square). It is extremely heavy although obviously, I had no problem carrying it home from the shop. I doubt I could throw it 12'4" high or even six feet in front of me with any force (caveat: I never was any good at bowling, overarm or underarm).
It doesn't change the thrust of the salient point that the boulder used to smash the window, at 9lb 4oz, is very heavy and unlikely to be used by a career burglar (except maybe in a smash and grab shop window, which one could hardly miss).
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Vixen refuses to adress the point I made as to why the prosecution had to resort to using evidence with no credibility and using the testimony of someone who provided an alibi for Amanda and Raffaele and undermined the prosecution's case if they had a strong case. If the evidence against Amanda and Raffaele was so strong why does Vixen have to constantly lie in her posts. For instance Vixen recently lied that Curt Knox had paid two million dollars to the PR firm.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
See the following articles:
'1) Senator Cantwell was already burned by associating too closely with your radioactive group. She spoke out daffily for Amanda Knox several years ago - and then, duly warned, she went quiet again. Ask her congressional staff for the story to that. And read our past heads-ups for Senator Maria Cantwell here and here. ' http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...s_sollectio_pr_shill_sharlene_martin_omitted/
From 2015: 'Knox happens to live in a city and state which largely goes along with the presidential party and administration. Senator Patty Murray and Senator Maria Cantwell are in the presidential party as is Mayor Ed Murray of Seattle.
Senator Cantwell is STILL the only influential politician who has taken a public stance anti-Italy; nobody from the opposite party ever has.
In 2009 Cantwell was sharply rebuffed and her facts corrected by the State Department and CNN’s legal analyst and even by some pro-justice Seattle voters..
In October 2013 Cantwell flashed in and out of a bizarre misinformation panel perhaps embarrassed to be associated with it.
Bottom line? The presidential administration and party does not seem in a strong position to refuse to hand over any documents, or without very strong reason to take a pro-Knox anti-Italy position.' http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...ea_vogt_encounters_two_case_related_oddities/
23 March 2015: 'Going back several years to the Daily Mail, Guardian, The Express and various American media, they all seemed to be reading from the same script:
She hadn’t received a fair trial.
American public opinion would ‘never allow her to be sent back’.
The Secretary of State would quietly prevail upon his counterpart in Italy to not request extradition.
And, as the final appeal of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito came up to the last stretch it seemed that these same hacks were repeating the same talking points, even though much has changed since 2011.
These were the basic points, reported over and over in the main stream media till it almost seemed like a guarantee. So I have been looking for the last three years to verify the truth of that. And, who made that promise, if any were made? These were the basic parameters of my search, and I had to tune out the background noise of ‘double jeopardy’ and ‘dueling extradition experts’.
Then I had to look for the ‘unnamed source’ quoted in all the news reports.
These possibilities came up:
WA US Senator Maria Cantwell spoke to her colleague Sen. John Kerry of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who spoke to his brother in law David Thorne, the former US Ambassador to Rome, who passed on a quiet message to the Italian Foreign minister. But would they ever speak on or off the record to reporters or like it very much if it was going to be bruited about?
Mid-level Friends Of Amanda Knox like Anne Bremner and Judge Heavey had received vague assurances from Senator Cantwell; somehow extrapolated as iron clad guarantee that Knox would never be extradited, never mind there has not been any precedent I can find that would apply to a similar case like this.
Someone in the Department of Justice and/ or State is feeding them *****.
The FOA are making it all up. That last was my favourite, given that they are led around by people like Steve Moore, Bruce Fischer, and J. Michael Scadron.' http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...ent_really_offer_assurances_to_amanda_knox_1/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...ator_cantwell_still_hasnt_answered_seattle_c/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...splash_of_cold_water_from_a_respected_washin/
Cantwell has made half-hearted noises, but that's about it.
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Methos
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It is a number PM Mignini plucked out of thin air for his rebuttal arguments in front of Judge Hellmann on Sep 30, 2011:
Since this was in 2011 someone on the internet decided in 2015 that it must be "2 million dollars" by now...
Just for the record on page 56 of the same document PM Comodi closes her speach with the final "motive" and the (in)famous death penalty reference:
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
See:
quote: 'the direction of the reconstruction of this nasty story, very professional and entrusted to a proven spin doctor, whose fees according to local sources are about $ 100,000 a year. David Marriott is the journalists tamer that has been managing the family’s relations with the press for two years.' http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...agliano_reports_on_the_seattle_end_of_the_ca/
..About to enter into its tenth year, in November.
quote: '[Amanda’s] family - that between airplanes, lawyers, press offices appears to have spent more than $ 1,000 000, and claims it is deep in debts - is only partially responsible for the operation, as several local potentates whose path have crossed Amanda’s in the classrooms of the Jesuit high school have taken action to defend the future possible convict. It seems that Amanda was very fond of the daughter of judge Michael Heavy. He was the first one to write an outraged letter to the Italian magistrates and to inspire the group Friends of Amanda, together with Tom Wright, a tycoon with interests in the movies industry whose children were at Seattle Prep.' [ibid]
Add on expenses (flights, taxis, hotel accommodation and sales tax on professional fees), it comes to $2m, easily.
toto
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It's the "local sources" you need to quote.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
This reminds me of the Trump tactic for spreading misinformation. His favorite lines are "I read somewhere", "I've heard somewhere", and "People have told me". When pressed for sources, he just says he can't remember exactly. A new analysis by Politico today said that Trump presents misinformation every 3.2 minutes when he speaks or tweets.
Cannons don't catapult. Just saying.
Bill Williams
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Aside from not addressing anything in the post you responded to, you just repeated an untruth.
The courts are also interested in stipulated facts. The problem is when a stipulated fact becomes a judicial fact, without one of the parties being represented in the facts stipulation.
Simply repeating your error does not make it true.
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Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Can you provide any evidence that what OGGI reported is false? If it could be proved false, TJMK and TMOMK would have done so. They have not.
You do know that your allegations that Oggi is alleged to be mafia sponsored is not evidence it is?
What "accounts" exactly show that what she called double-glazing is not what we understand by it? Exactly how is Italian double-glazing different from British or American double-glazing?
Double glazing means two panes of glass. I know of no other meaning of it.
Massei refused the defense request for an audiometric test to determine whether or not it was even possible for Capezzali to hear a scream and/or running in the street below. He denied it. I guess that was one way he "bent over backwards for the kids".
Bill Williams
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Then why are you minimizing and making an excuse for a death threat, one so egregious that Peter Quennell removed it?
You seem to be the only one these days making excuses for it.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Yep, I'm sure he just bought that laptop and cell phone from some guy at the Milan train station. What a coincidence that he just happened to be living in Perugia at the time of the break-in and bought stolen items from Perugia in Milan. The guy just couldn't catch a break!
"Sandstone quarries". LOL. Hyperbole once again. There were stones all around the car park. Regarding the hammer, as explained to you before, he would have had to stand on the grate beneath the window, reach up, and break the glass. If anyone heard it and responded, his getaway would have been more time consuming and difficult considering he'd have to climb back up the embankment. Standing on the car park gave him an immediate escape route to the street. Logic.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
When someone responds to a claim they said something with "what?" that indicates surprise at what was just said. At least in most people's reality.
Why would I video me throwing a rock UP almost 13 ft when I could toss it almost directly straight across about half that distance? I wouldn't throw it from the ground. And neither did Guede.
LondonJohn
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Well, firstly, your quoting of opinion pieces from TJMK is pathetic and laughable in the extreme.
You do realise, don't you, that I could write on a website (on this website, for example) anything I liked? I could write, for example: "Prosecutor Mignini is known to have spent $400m on a global campaign to discredit Knox and Sollecito". Merely quoting that elsewhere in support of the idea that Mignini spent $400m on such a campaign does not make it true. Do you have any concept at all of the principle of trusted primary sources?
On top of that overarching failure on your part, you also appear utterly oblivious to the meaning of the words before your eyes. You have quoted something which says that the Knox family has apparently spent "more than $1,000,000", and that this amount has been spent on such things as "airplanes, lawyers, press offices". You've then miraculously extrapolated this to Curt Knox spending some $2,000,000 on PR. Can you seriously not see how ludicrously stupid and bone-headed this extrapolation is?
I'll give you a few clues. Let's firstly accept that the ballpark "$1 million" figure mentioned is roughly correct (I suspect, actually, that it is probably close to the true figure - but remember that the only people who know the true figure are the Knox family themselves, and possibly their financial advisers). Now let's realise that the Knox family has paid for the legal services of dalla Vedova, Ghirga and their respective law firms for some 7.5 years, on and off, including several lengthy trial processes and preparations of appeals. Do you have any understanding whatsoever of what decent lawyers cost to hire? I strongly suggest that you do some of your now-fabled research to try to discern what kind of cumulative fees the Knox family might have paid to dalla Vedova, Ghirga and their firms over all these years and all these trials/appeals. And that's before even considering the payment to expert witnesses.
If you're even 1/8 as good at research as you'd like to believe you are, then you'll by now realise that it's actually entirely possible that the Knox family spent a large majority of this alleged $1m on legal services alone. OK so far? Good. Now we move on to travel expenses. The Knox and Mellas families travelled to Italy from the West coast of the US at least several times, occasionally spending many weeks in Italy at a time. Sometimes one or two family members travelled, sometimes up to five or six people travelled (including children). Add up the total approximate number of airfares, the total number of hotel room nights, the total cost of house rentals, the total subsistence costs (food, car hire etc). You'll find that you probably get to a figure well above $100k. Add that figure to the legal costs figure.
And by now, hopefully, even you will be able to see that whatever money was spent by the Knox family on PR and "press services", it cannot have been anywhere remotely near the $1m alleged as the total outlay. In fact, it's far more likely to have been in the five-figure range as a maximum.
Lastly, you still haven't presented one iota of evidence in respect of what Curt Knox actually paid to Gogerty Marriott. And since I know you don't have any such evidence, and that you're pulling numbers out of thin air (based on grotesquely incorrect extrapolations of numbers which themselves actually refer to the grand total of monetary outlay - the overwhelming majority of which will correspond to legal fees), I can confidently conclude that:
a) you have zero credible evidence of what Curt Knox actually paid Gogerty Marriott for services;
b) you have zero evidence to support any estimation of the scale and scope of the work done by Gogerty Marriott in this case;
c) your claim of $2 million paid by Curt Knox to Gogerty Marriott is therefore wholly and entirely without foundation, and is nothing more than a number plucked out of thin air by you and other pro-guilt commentators with an agenda.
Hope that's all clear
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Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
How is that fallacious logic? Please explain.
It was a paraphrase? I highly doubt that. Why don't you cite the exact quote in her book which you "paraphrased"? I'd love to see it.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Indeed. The obvious place from which to throw the rock was from the edge of that parapet where cars were parked. From there, it's a horizontal throw of around 3-4m (depending how close to the edge of the parapet the thrower gets). I 100% guarantee, without a single reservation, that I could easily throw a rock of 4-4.5kg mass accurately across that sort of horizontal distance. And I am unequivocally certain that young, strong basketball player Guede could have done so with consummate ease.
LondonJohn
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And it's not even that. First of all, what does that alleged "$100k/year" even mean in practice? What services are being provided for that sum of money? PR firms such as GM charge different fees for different services, and different fees for different levels of commitment to that particular client. That in itself tells you that the "local source" is either unreliable or imaginary.
And on top of that, nobody outside the relevant people at GM and the Knox family (and possibly one or two others close to the situation) actually knows what GM chose to charge the Knox family, and similarly, nobody outside that group knows what work GM pledged to provide to the Knox family. GM could, entirely feasibly, have chosen to take this project on a form of "pro bono" basis. Or GM could have chosen to charge Knox hugely reduced fees. NOBODY KNOWS, OUTSIDE OF GM AND THE KNOXES.
This mythical "$2m" number is nothing less than a mischievous piece of crap put about by certain commentators who have constructed a myth in which a gigantic multi-million-dollar PR machine was wheeled out to defeat noble Italian justice. It's crap, pure and simple. Disregard it entirely.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Not quite true, eh, bagels? From the transcript of Paolo Brocchi, one of the lawyer partners:
LG:
Excuse me Lawyer Brocchi, I am Ghirga. Your office is on which street?
PB:
Via del Roscetto, 3.
LG:
First... You already told us the height, can you repeat it?
PB:
The office is on a raised floor, technically, it is not a first floor, is a raised ground floor, that means that from the entrance of the building you go up ten steps to enter the condominium, then on the left end side there is the entrance to the office.
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The other thing is the window that was breached, was accessed via a private gate kept locked, at the back of the building. The alarm was deactivated, causing Mr Brocchi to express surprise as not even the proprietor had the electronic expertise to enable this.
In addition, the 'clothes' you mention scattered 'just like in the cottage', were the jackets of the two gents on top of the glass shards - and not underneath as in Filomena's room.
The breaking and entry was effected by the well-tried method of smashing the pane with a rock and then reaching inside to undo the latch.
So, to claim that Rudy did both this burglary and the one at the cottage is specious.
One was a real burglary, which involved:
(a) accessing a private locked gate,
(b) sight of a window latch to unlock,
(c) deactivating a sophisticated burglar alarm,
(d) rummaging jackets and throwing them on the floor where: the smashing of the window came before the ransacking.
(e) an upper ground floor, ten steps up from the street; the fake burglary was at a second floor window (=first floor in the UK) 12'4" from the ground.
(d) was an office; the cottage was residential.
(e) a laptop, data and a cell phone was stolen.
(f) three laptops, gold jewellery and camera were ignored at the cottage.
(g) only the murder victim's personal property was stolen, two cell phones, a credit card and €300 rent in cash, at the cottage.
(h) nothing of Amanda's was touched, including her rent money in cash, from her adjacent room at the cottage and on the way out for the killer.
Your so-called 'MO's:
(i) a rock was used,
(ii) a drink was taken from the fridge.
Hardly amounts to an 'MO' as it's far too generalised.
Rudy was found in possession of the lawyer's laptop whilst caught trespassing in a ground floor nursery, he did not need to break into.
It's a coincidence. However, one of Amanda's old schoolfriends revealed within days of the murder that Amanda herself had staged a burglary to prank a friend and had been made to apologise for the distress she caused.
So, if you are going to claim an MO for Rudy, you need to balance it with all other possible MO's.
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