Firearms are for sporting and hunting

[cullennz]

Because the words that are already in your mouth are factually incorrect. For example:

This is factually incorrect. The first guns were invented for warfare. Specifically, for use against large blocks of troops because they were not accurate. They were certainly not accurate enough for hunting - people hunted with spears and bows right up to the 17th century, a time when guns had been dominating battlefields for a couple of hundred years.

It's also in the last 100 years that guns have been accurate enough to hunt with.

According to Wikipedia (only my first stop in researching this, so it's not exactly inaccessible information), the first experiments in rifling firearm barrels took place in the 15th century, but black powder quickly fouled the barrels with soot and the amount of smoke produced and the method of warfare consisting of large, solid blocks of troops, made long-range accuracy fairly irrelevant anyway.

Contrast this to a hunting situation, where if you miss you don't get to eat. Accuracy is, shall we say, important. Clean powder, elongated bullets and rifling made firearms more accurate, and this is when they became useful for hunting.

Guns were used to kill people long before they were used to kill animals, or even paper targets.

Can you please read my posts?

I said first weapons not guns

 

[arthwollipot]

You said:

Sorry, but I call ********. Fire arms were invented to inflict death.

Then you claimed that you weren't talking about death to humans.

 

[cullennz]

You said:



Then you claimed that you weren't talking about death to humans.

Where did I claim that?

 

[Hercules56]

What is wrong with using a gun to defend your home and family from intruders?

 

[arthwollipot]

Where did I claim that?

Here:

I never said humans

 

[arthwollipot]

What is wrong with using a gun to defend your home and family from intruders?

Back to basics.

It's bad because it is very easily lethal, and it is very difficult to know post-hoc whether lethal force was necessary in any particular situation. And by the time it is used, it is too late. Dead is dead - you have ended someone's life and there's absolutely no going back from that.

A lot of people - especially in America, an otherwise-civilised country - seem to put a lot less stock in the inherent value of human life than I do, and I'm not okay with that.

 

[cullennz]

I said they were invented to inflict death.

You are the one assuming this has to mean humans

 

[cullennz]

And assume weapons mean guns

 

[arthwollipot]

And assume weapons mean guns

You explicitly said "fire arms". Unless you're talking about hitting someone with a flaming torch, you were talking about guns.

 

[cullennz]

You explicitly said "fire arms". Unless you're talking about hitting someone with a flaming torch, you were talking about guns.

Where did I say firearms in that exchange?

 

[cullennz]

I said weapons.

For hunting and crap warfare.

Spears, bow and arrows, swords, muskets, trebauchet (can't spell), clubs, even poison

 

[arthwollipot]

I already quoted you! Post #194.

 

[cullennz]

I said fire arms were invented for death and then said all weapons

 

[Jules Galen]

Back to basics.

It's bad because it is very easily lethal, and it is very difficult to know post-hoc whether lethal force was necessary in any particular situation. And by the time it is used, it is too late. Dead is dead - you have ended someone's life and there's absolutely no going back from that.

A lot of people - especially in America, an otherwise-civilised country - seem to put a lot less stock in the inherent value of human life than I do, and I'm not okay with that.

That's a good sentiment, but please help me FIFY, so-to-speak. Now the phrase "seem to put a lot less stock in the inherent value of human life" is a meaningless one - although I know where you are trying to go with it. I mean, there is no "Inherent Value" in human life and this is demonstrated daily by the number of terminally-ill patients who knowingly decline further treatment in the hopes that they will...Die. Now, if you had just said..."Respect People", I think you would have been more descriptive...and a lot less wordy.

Nevertheless, what you say is a good thing.

 

[Ranb]

No, I think you got caught imposing your own interpretation on something I said that I never intended, and you're refusing to back down despite my explaining where you went wrong.

Actually when you claimed, "when you have a gun, everything looks like a target" you said something rather obtuse and have not offered a rational explanation for it.

 

[Ranb]

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

Most weapons were made for hunting and crap warfare where it took about 2 minutes to reload

It's only been in the last 100 years or so that they were turned into straight do as much damage to as much stuff as possible

It's not so hard when you're so loose with your facts. A musket or muzzle loading rifle could be loaded faster than once every two minutes. Weapons capable of "do as much damage to as much stuff as possible" like cannons, mortars and bombs have been around much longer than 100 years.

 

[Ranb]

I have no "attitude towards inanimate objects."

Impugn my motives and attack my credibility all you want, I hope you have fun.

It is not fun, just trying to counter what I feel are misleading statements on the forum.

If I had said that guns were intended for recreational purposes, would you have agreed even though it was counter to your claim that they are for causing ballistic trauma in living creatures?

Tools are used towards the accomplishing of a purpose. The design of a tool gives clues as to what intended use it might be put towards.

I don't have to wield a hammer to observe how it is used, understand its purpose, and the application of simple machine principles in its design.

Which doesn't mean you actually understand what you are claiming. A precision air rifle like the Feinwerkbau 700X shooting a 7 grain pellet at 1000 fps is regulated as a firearm in some areas. Would you consider it intended for inflicting trauma on living things?

I don't think anyone ever intended the 700X to be a weapon of war.

 

[Fudbucker]

Firearms are for causing ballistic trauma in living creatures, generally towards the purpose of inflicting lethal injuries very rapidly.

Everything else is context based on the situation.

:9

Rapiers were designed for poking holes in people. I guess anyone who does fencing has the same secret agenda as target shooters.

 

[Ranb]

Who said it was a secret? It seems that anyone who doesn't demonize items that can be used as weapons is obviously putting on an open display of their killing fetish; or so it seems by reading other threads on ISF.

 

[Fudbucker]

Who said it was a secret? It seems that anyone who doesn't demonize items that can be used as weapons is obviously putting on an open display of their killing fetish; or so it seems by reading other threads on ISF.

Right. I'm a fairly good target shooter, and I've never shot a living thing with a gun. Of course that means I secretly fantasize about blowing people away, but lack the conviction to carry out my fantasies.

Right, Art?