Another unarmed black man shot

Jules Galen said:
I don't even feel that much. Long before someone pulls a gun, it's their moral responsibility appreciate the world of misery they can reign down on someone within a split second. Despite whatever the NRA tries to tell us what handguns are - they can take faster than they can give...and they most often do. Handguns are a gigantic moral and existential responsibility.

She was an adult. No excuses.
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Can't argue with that.

Just cant help wondering about their selection standards for armed patrol officer are
 
Mumbles said:
So.

How would he avoid getting shot?

As if that were his job to begin with, but let's accept that.
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Who knows any more. There's too many instances of minor infractions apparently justifying on-the-spot execution contrasted with premeditated multiple homicide leading to a trip to Burger King for me to make any sense of it.

The statistics on the racial component of the issue are too damning to ignore, but even when adjusted for, there's seemingly no rhyme or reason. It seems we're all one traffic stop away from having our every muscle twitch and youthful indiscretion trotted out for the peanut gallery to sanctimoniously wag their fingers at.
 
There's a complete collection of the videos here. I have not watched the whole thing yet.

At ~7:00 the dash cam shows the man with his hands up walking to his truck with one cop behind him. Two others join the one cop then a fourth shows up. As the man stands with his hands up on the truck you hear the only sound of a shot. You can see him collapse against the truck before he's out of view behind the cops. Then he falls to the ground. That is how the blood stream occurred.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Actually, that video kind of contradicts your claim. The blood did not begin spurting out until the victim fell and his head (where the wound was) descended to, or below, the level of his heart. It seems unlikely for blood to spurt out for wounds that are significantly above the heart.

Actually, we can try to do some math. Normal systolic pressure is 120 mm Hg, and Hg (i.e. mercury) is about 13 times the density of blood. Therefore, normal systolic pressure in terms of the vertical rise in blood would be 13 x 120 mm = 1.5 meters. So, in theory, a column of blood could only rise 1.5 meters above the heart (putting aside capillary action, which is not relevant here). Of course, blood pressure will drop dramatically, at least locally, with a hole through which blood is spurting which is comparable in diameter to the largest artery in the body (the aorta, which is about 2.5 cm in diameter). How fast does pressure drop? Too many assumptions are required to get a bead on it, but the video of the executed Vietnamese guy shows that blood could spurt about a foot higher than the heart. That would indicate a blood pressure drop by about a factor of four locally, which strikes me as reasonable. So what you're seeing with the Vietnamese guy is probably about what you would expect. If Crutcher had serious hypertension (and the Vietnamese guy did not), he might have cleared more than a foot above his heart.
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What results on local systolic pressure would there be from a gunshot wound?

During a conversation about various liberties taken with firearms in TV and movies, one of the aspects I recall was that not only would a person not be knocked back off their feet (not enough mass delivered to transfer much inertia), if the round is meant to pancake or spiral (soft/hollow/notched point), the "exhaust" of blood and tissues from the exit wound would actually nudge the person towards the direction the projectile came from.
 
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Ammonitida said:
I'm pretty certain that if toxicology tests come back showing that he was on PCP, she'll be acquitted at trial, if it gets that far.
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I agree. Several media outlets have reported that she completed expert drug-recognition training, that along with his reported erratic behavior before her arrival will be a home run for any defense attorney in front of a jury. If the window was partially rolled down as the officers have claimed? Fogetta bout it, she's gonna walk.
 
Bogative said:
I agree. Several media outlets have reported that she completed expert drug-recognition training, that along with his reported erratic behavior before her arrival will be a home run for any defense attorney in front of a jury. If the window was partially rolled down as the officers have claimed? Fogetta bout it, she's gonna walk.
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She will be acquitted because the victim is black, and she's a police officer.
 
I cannot link quite yet, but there is a story at HuffPo titled: "Cop Who Shot Terence Crutcher Has History Of Drug Use, Domestic Disturbances"

So now we can sanctimoniously wag our fingers at both parties.

"Shelby, who is currently on administrative leave, is now a rightful target of the same scrutiny and investigation that many minority victims of police shootings have experienced."
 
Bogative said:
...along with his reported erratic behavior before her arrival...
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How does the victim's erratic behavior before her arrival in any way justify her shooting? Is that how it works now? "I heard that he was acting erratically, so I shot him when I arrived on scene. Didn't see anything myself, but... meh..."
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
I cannot link quite yet, but there is a story at HuffPo titled: "Cop Who Shot Terence Crutcher Has History Of Drug Use, Domestic Disturbances"

So now we can sanctimoniously wag our fingers at both parties.

"Shelby, who is currently on administrative leave, is now a rightful target of the same scrutiny and investigation that many minority victims of police shootings have experienced."
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She smoked pot a couple times according to other reports and I fail to see how any of that history is relative. Of course the police side will no doubt leak everything under the Sun about the victim's sordid past to make him look dangerous, also not relevant.

But, welcome to the forum. :)
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
She smoked pot a couple times according to other reports and I fail to see how any of that history is relative. Of course the police side will no doubt leak everything under the Sun about the victim's sordid past to make him look dangerous, also not relevant.

But, welcome to the forum. :)
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I don't find it all the relevant, either. It caught my eye simply because it is not part of the usual way these stories unfold to hear anything about the shooter.

I am, however, curious from a sociological perspective if we see a dichotomy of "every benefit of the doubt given" vs. "instant judgmental excoriation" in the public at large.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
What results on local systolic pressure would there be from a gunshot wound?

During a conversation about various liberties taken with firearms in TV and movies, one of the aspects I recall was that not only would a person not be knocked back off their feet (not enough mass delivered to transfer much inertia), if the round is meant to pancake or spiral (soft/hollow/notched point), the "exhaust" of blood and tissues from the exit wound would actually nudge the person towards the direction the projectile came from.
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This image fairly clearly shows not just that the wound is to the chest, but also the pattern of blood that runs down his shirt matches the blood running down the car window and is consistent with the video where you can see him slump against the truck.

Had he not bled until he was horizontal, one would see a different pattern on the shirt.

I'm still waiting for your concession William Parcher. :cool:
 
Bogative said:
I agree. Several media outlets have reported that she completed expert drug-recognition training, that along with his reported erratic behavior before her arrival will be a home run for any defense attorney in front of a jury. If the window was partially rolled down as the officers have claimed? Fogetta bout it, she's gonna walk.
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Is he the stretchy dude out of the movie with the hulk?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
There's a complete collection of the videos here. I have not watched the whole thing yet.

At ~7:00 the dash cam shows the man with his hands up walking to his truck with one cop behind him. Two others join the one cop then a fourth shows up. As the man stands with his hands up on the truck you hear the only sound of a shot. You can see him collapse against the truck before he's out of view behind the cops. Then he falls to the ground. That is how the blood stream occurred.
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This is pretty much how I see it
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
How does the victim's erratic behavior before her arrival in any way justify her shooting? Is that how it works now? "I heard that he was acting erratically, so I shot him when I arrived on scene. Didn't see anything myself, but... meh..."
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Well, for starters, most people pull over to the side of the road when their car experiences trouble. Instead, this guy's car was in the middle of the road, actually blocking oncoming traffic from the other direction.
 
Brainster said:
Well, for starters, most people pull over to the side of the road when their car experiences trouble. Instead, this guy's car was in the middle of the road, actually blocking oncoming traffic from the other direction.
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Cool. That's the reason to shoot him then
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
How does the victim's erratic behavior before her arrival in any way justify her shooting? Is that how it works now? "I heard that he was acting erratically, so I shot him when I arrived on scene. Didn't see anything myself, but... meh..."
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By corroborating her story of what happened after she arrived.
 
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