Another unarmed black man shot

stanfr said:
Exactly, that's why i mentioned 'cops a plea'
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Under Oklahoma's 85% rule (Law), it appears that she will spend a minimum of 3.4 years in prison if she cops a plea and gets the lightest sentence.

In Oklahoma, persons who are convicted of crimes enumerated in 21 O.S., § 13.1 are required to serve at least 85% of their sentences before they can even be considered for parole. This is referred to as 85% rule. Persons convicted of these offenses shall not be eligible for earned credits or any other type of credits which have the effect of reducing the length of the sentence to less than eighty-five percent (85%) of the sentence imposed.

The crimes enumerated in 21 Okl. St. § 13.1 are:

First degree murder ,Second degree murder, Manslaughter in the first degree , Poisoning with intent to kill, Shooting with intent to kill, use of a vehicle to facilitate use of a firearm, crossbow or other weapon, assault, battery, or assault and battery with a deadly weapon or by other means likely to produce death or great bodily harm, Assault with intent to kill, Conjoint robbery , Robbery with a dangerous weapon, First degree robbery, First degree rape ,First degree arson , First degree burglary, Bombing, Any crime against a child, Forcible sodomy, Child pornography , Child prostitution, Lewd molestation of a child, Abuse of a vulnerable adult who is a resident of a nursing facility; or Aggravated trafficking.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/8/85-percent-rule/
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Jules Galen said:
Under Oklahoma's 85% rule (Law), it appears that she will spend a minimum of 3.4 years in prison if she cops a plea and gets the lightest sentence.
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Unless she pleads down to second-degree manslaughter, which carries a lesser sentence.

Does anyone remember the Tulsa County reserve deputy who shot and killed a guy while he was being handcuffed by other deputies?

His defense was that he thought the gun was a Taser and shot the suspect by mistake. He was convicted of second-degree manslaughter and received the maximum sentence of four years

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oklahoma-police-idUSKCN0YM2RU
 
jimbob said:
I think the crowdsourced statistics tell a different story.

From the Washington post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ite-people-were-shot-in-2015-than-minorities/

Most people who were shot were justified shootings. Most were armed and about half were white.

What is interesting is when the person was unarmed, which is where there is likely to be more of a question about the appropriateness of lethal force (sometimes it would still be justified). Then the ratio of blacks to whites jumps. The parsimonious explanation is that this is due to racial bias. This is supported by other statistics that show racial bias when they are collected



I make that jumping from 3x to 6.7x as the severity decreases.
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Except that the "unarmed" category is a very small sample.

I did some research using the Guardian database for the "armed with firearm" category (2016). If there is racial bias in the police use of force, then wouldn't we also expect to see this in shootings of armed people? Like a greater percentage of cops shooting at armed black suspects who did not initiate gunfire than white suspects?

My findings

1. 119 black victims were armed with firearms or "toys" that looked like firearms (the "toy" shootings are in the "unknown or other" categories). Of that group, 43% fired on cops, 62% were involved in serious violent crime ranging from armed robbery to murder (as best as I could tell, the other cases often lacked information), 11% resulted in wounded cops, 3% involved police fatalities, and 12% saw seriously injured civilians (not counting suspects).

2. 190 white victims were armed with firearms or "toys" that looked like firearms. To compare, 37% fired on cops, 64% were involved in serious violent crime, 10% wounded cops, 3% killed cops, and 8% wounded or injured civilians.

No significant differences there. And we should remember that death by cop is just a small picture of officer involved shootings. Many more unarmed white people could have been shot, but lived.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...n/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#

When statistics are collected on racial bias in the use of police force, they're conflicting.

Consistent with our findings, simulation studies find police are no more likely to fire on unarmed blacks than unarmed whites,45 and high rates of black speeding citations per capita result from high violation rates.46–48 A systematic review identified 10 studies that found suspect race/ethnicity did not predict use of force or its escalation.6 However, one study found blacks were more likely than whites to face force during compliance checks.7 The PPCS survey also found that blacks were more likely to experience physical force and to perceive the threat of force during a stop, although few respondents actually were injured by the force applied.14 The large majority of incidents that those stopped perceived as undue force was stops where officers shouted at or threatened people, presumably to deter resistance.
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Also interesting to note, only 2 black people died from tasers this year while 11 white people died. Last year, it was equal between whites and blacks. Small samples again.
 
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Jules Galen said:
It's a redicuous charge that won't hold up. It is an over-charge to under-convict. i bet the defense is laughing their arses off and drinking champagne off right now.
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Another point to note is that charges aren't unheard of after these killings.

It can give the appearance of taking the issue seriously to take the heat off of the department. Now it moves over to the prosecutor. For those of you who haven't seen this episode before *spoiler alert* there will be a grand jury investigation and they will choose not to indict.

*insert clever and appropriate quote about a ham sandwich here*
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Another point to note is that charges aren't unheard of after these killings.

It can give the appearance of taking the issue seriously to take the heat off of the department. Now it moves over to the prosecutor. For those of you who haven't seen this episode before *spoiler alert* there will be a grand jury investigation and they will choose not to indict.

*insert clever and appropriate quote about a ham sandwich here*
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I'm pretty certain that if toxicology tests come back showing that he was on PCP, she'll be acquitted at trial, if it gets that far.

I say this because if she correctly recognized that he was under the influence of this drug, that would give her ample reason to draw her weapon for her safety. His walking to the SUV in defiance of her orders to stop, even with his hands up, will be seen as threatening.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Another point to note is that charges aren't unheard of after these killings.

It can give the appearance of taking the issue seriously to take the heat off of the department. Now it moves over to the prosecutor. For those of you who haven't seen this episode before *spoiler alert* there will be a grand jury investigation and they will choose not to indict.

*insert clever and appropriate quote about a ham sandwich here*
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Good observation.

Thanks.
 
Ammonitida said:
I'm pretty certain that if toxicology tests come back showing that he was on PCP, she'll be acquitted at trial, if it gets that far.

I say this because if she correctly recognized that he was under the influence of this drug, that would give her ample reason to draw her weapon for her safety. His walking to the SUV in defiance of her orders to stop, even with his hands up, will be seen as threatening.
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Looked like he was out of it is a pretty piss poor excuse
 
Bogative said:
Unless she pleads down to second-degree manslaughter, which carries a lesser sentence.

Does anyone remember the Tulsa County reserve deputy who shot and killed a guy while he was being handcuffed by other deputies?

His defense was that he thought the gun was a Taser and shot the suspect by mistake. He was convicted of second-degree manslaughter and received the maximum sentence of four years

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oklahoma-police-idUSKCN0YM2RU
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Geez that is almost laughable
 
Bogative said:
Unless she pleads down to second-degree manslaughter, which carries a lesser sentence.

Does anyone remember the Tulsa County reserve deputy who shot and killed a guy while he was being handcuffed by other deputies?

His defense was that he thought the gun was a Taser and shot the suspect by mistake. He was convicted of second-degree manslaughter and received the maximum sentence of four years

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oklahoma-police-idUSKCN0YM2RU
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I do remember the case, didn't know the outcome.
 
An extremely small part of me. And I mean "extremely small" actually feels a bit for her.

There is no way she should have been given that sort of responsibility.

But I am sure the people that put her in the position she clearly was not capable of handling will be fine.
 
So.

How would he avoid getting shot?

As if that were his job to begin with, but let's accept that.
 
Mumbles said:
So.

How would he avoid getting shot?

As if that were his job to begin with, but let's accept that.
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Lying prostrate at the cops feet to appease the cops ego while begging for your life to make them feel superior would probably be a good way to go
 
cullennz said:
An extremely small part of me. And I mean "extremely small" actually feels a bit for her.
There is no way she should have been given that sort of responsibility.

But I am sure the people that put her in the position she clearly was not capable of handling will be fine.
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I don't even feel that much. Long before someone pulls a gun, it's their moral responsibility appreciate the world of misery they can reign down on someone within a split second. Despite whatever the NRA tries to tell us what handguns are - they can take faster than they can give...and they most often do. Handguns are a gigantic moral and existential responsibility.

She was an adult. No excuses.
 
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