Another unarmed black man shot

Jules Galen said:
The riots are stupid - and they have always been a stupid tactic.

If these BLM guys were smart, they'd take a lot of cues from the LGBT Movement - a very successful movement despite being stricken with the disease and stigma of AIDS just when it really got going. But the LGBT Movement won! And won big.
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2015: In all interactions between police and civilians 45 police officers died while over 1100 civilians died. Blacks make up the majority of civilians killed by cops. 25% of them are unarmed compared to 17% of whites.

The numbers look like this (per 1 million people):

7.13 - Black
3.48 - Hispanic
3.4 - Native American
2.91 - White
1.34 - Asian
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Good grief! Anything and everything to deny what is clearly visible in multiple images. There is no iffy about it.

What do you think is pooling on the ground at the bottom of the long dark stripe that goes from the window down the side of the car? Do you think he spilled his coffee?:rolleyes:
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I don't know. You have medical training (I think), what volume of blood do you estimate and how do you suppose it got there?

The question of what the picture shows is different than the question of whether the shooting was justified. I don't think it was.

ETA: Remember going round and round about whether Zimmerman's pics showed an injury or not? Photos can't be trusted.
 
marplots said:
I don't know. You have medical training (I think), what volume of blood do you estimate and how do you suppose it got there?
The question of what the picture shows is different than the question of whether the shooting was justified. I don't think it was.

ETA: Remember going round and round about whether Zimmerman's pics showed an injury or not? Photos can't be trusted.
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Why would you even need medical training to understand? As a hunter, I have shot animals like deer and coyote and I know how much they can bleed. I figure a 250lb Man can bleed even more.
 
marplots said:
I don't know. You have medical training (I think), what volume of blood do you estimate and how do you suppose it got there?

The question of what the picture shows is different than the question of whether the shooting was justified. I don't think it was.

ETA: Remember going round and round about whether Zimmerman's pics showed an injury or not? Photos can't be trusted.
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It's clear, medical training or not, that a dark liquid ran from the window down the door and was pooling on the ground. It was the vic's blood and there are no alternative explanations.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It's clear, medical training or not, that a dark liquid ran from the window down the door and was pooling on the ground. It was the vic's blood and there are no alternative explanations.
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They keep grasping and grasping for any excuse, don't they?

Isn't it amazing?
 
Jules Galen said:
Why would you even need medical training to understand? As a hunter, I have shot animals like deer and coyote and I know how much they can bleed. I figure a 250lb Man can bleed even more.
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The medical part helps because of a familiarity with things like arterial spurt and volume vs. time. But I have no expertise in these things.

From your experience, does the amount of blood, it's location, and the time it could have been "applied" align with the picture showing blood instead of something else? (I suppose it would matter what the caliber of the pistol was and where the guy was hit.)
 
Jules Galen said:
It's a redicuous charge that won't hold up. It is an over-charge to under-convict. i bet the defense is laughing their arses off and drinking champagne off right now.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/natio...rutcher-betty-shelby-20160922-snap-story.html
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Two things, had the officer said 'accidental discharge', I can see a lesser charge. But when these guys make up stories like they thought they saw a gun or he reached into the car, that's where they get busted. Why lie unless you know you did something wrong?

Yes, no doubt she has a good chance of getting off. If the jury can look at the beating of Rodney King and be convinced the cops were only doing their job, no doubt a good defense attorney and a half-assed prosecution will result in a not-guilty verdict.

I'd like to see negligent manslaughter charged in most of these cases. If you do a blatantly incompetent job and someone dies, that is negligence.
 
jimbob said:
What is interesting is when the person was unarmed, which is where there is likely to be more of a question about the appropriateness of lethal force (sometimes it would still be justified). Then the ratio of blacks to whites jumps. The parsimonious explanation is that this is due to racial bias.
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Looking at the Washington Post article, of the 990 people shot and killed by police officers in 2015, 948 (or more than 95%) were male.

Do you think the parsimonious explanation for that is sexism?
 
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Jules Galen said:
They keep grasping and grasping for any excuse, don't they?

Isn't it amazing?
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Why does that constitute an excuse rather than a simple skeptical inquiry? Is it now the standard here that any questions are tantamount to pushing an agenda? That's going to kill the notion of skepticism.

It's still possible to actually ask questions and discuss answers without joining a team. Maybe. We'll see.
 
marplots said:
The medical part helps because of a familiarity with things like arterial spurt and volume vs. time. But I have no expertise in these things.

From your experience, does the amount of blood, it's location, and the time it could have been "applied" align with the picture showing blood instead of something else? (I suppose it would matter what the caliber of the pistol was and where the guy was hit.)
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You want to see how blood can spurt out a gunshot hole, watch the blood pumping out of the Vietnamese man executed in the infamous war video I posted upthread.
 
Brainster said:
Looking at the Washington Post article, of the 990 people shot and killed by police officers in 2015, 948 (or more than 95%) were male.

Do you think the parsimonious explanation for that is sexism?
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Testosterone is a sexist reality. There's a difference. What we are talking about here are stereotyped assumptions made that are not based on evidence.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
You want to see how blood can spurt out a gunshot hole, watch the blood pumping out of the Vietnamese man executed in the infamous war video I posted upthread.
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That's OK, I'll pass. If you say it's reasonable that he was shot where he was shot and the streak on the window and door (height, volume, etc) fit, then I'll just go with your expertise. It struck me as odd, that's all.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You want to see how blood can spurt out a gunshot hole, watch the blood pumping out of the Vietnamese man executed in the infamous war video I posted upthread.
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You are talking about a point-blank head shot versus a shot through clothing into the upper torso. The clothing will become soaked with blood but it will also prevent a spurting stream. Any blood on this SUV would have come from a smear not a spurt. IMO.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Two things, had the officer said 'accidental discharge', I can see a lesser charge. But when these guys make up stories like they thought they saw a gun or he reached into the car, that's where they get busted. Why lie unless you know you did something wrong?

Yes, no doubt she has a good chance of getting off. If the jury can look at the beating of Rodney King and be convinced the cops were only doing their job, no doubt a good defense attorney and a half-assed prosecution will result in a not-guilty verdict.

I'd like to see negligent manslaughter charged in most of these cases. If you do a blatantly incompetent job and someone dies, that is negligence.
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Same here. Actually, I'm thinking of something along the lines of "Manslaughter with Callous Indifference" - if there is such a charge. But to overcharge with First Degree is just a slap in the face of justice. Why not charge her sodomy, rape and high treason while they are at it? And even if she is convicted of First Degree, it will never hold up under appeal.

They over-charged her in order to make sure she wouldn't get punished for her crime.
 
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