Another unarmed black man shot

[Distracted1]

The window glare and the continuation of the line are why I think the window is up.

It would need something special to convince me how the window could be down in that photo, and that does question the police account.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1449457e415dfbb474.gif[/qimg]

ETA: I have no view on the back door window, which I looks darker, and might be open or shut from that picture

http://i1.wp.com/wildammo.com/wp-co...t-Exactly-What-They-Seem-Wildammo-7.jpg?w=720

And I will admit I cannot tell one way or the other from that picture. I would need some further corroboration before I could call it an "established fact" that the window was open or closed.

Further, how "closed" is closed? How "open", open? If I accept the assertion that the dark area is a blood stain on glass, could the image also suggest that the window was 3/4 closed?- since it appears to start approx. 6" down from the top of the door. Is a window that is shut 3/4 of the way "closed"?

 

[deadrose]

As to the topic of assaults on officers, the figures seem exaggerated. For example:



The deputy made a big deal about the pain and suffering he went through from this assault (the shoe).

I think there's one simple thing police could do that would improve people's opinion of them greatly. Start large-scale random and frequent testing for anabolic steroids, with immediate and serious consequences for use. I'd feel a lot less nervous if I could be sure the cop I was facing wasn't a twitching ball of 'roid rage.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Here. This one was posted exactly one page back in this thread.

http://fox2now.com/2015/03/25/femal...der-charges-for-shooting-and-killing-suspect/

And here, this one took two seconds to google.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-white-officer-manslaughter-20160804-snap-story.html

I dont mind to debate things rationally. But if you find that you keep making easily disprovable, baseless statements you might want to stop and reconsider your argument.

What are you taking issue with? That only 1/3 of proscutions are successful by pointing out that there are successful prosecutions? Think about the successful prosecution rate of any other class of killers.

I really think you quoted the wrong post.

 

[Pterodactyl]

What are you taking issue with? That only 1/3 of proscutions are successful by pointing out that there are successful prosecutions? Think about the successful prosecution rate of any other class of killers.

I really think you quoted the wrong post.

Deflection noted.


Also, I would expect the conviction rate to be lower than for the general public considering police officers (1) are usually employed and can hire private attorneys or are a member of an FOP that supplies one (2) have no previous criminal history, and (3) have the benefit of acting in a work capacity, thus mitigating motive.

These aren't negligible differences.

 

[jimbob]

http://i1.wp.com/wildammo.com/wp-co...t-Exactly-What-They-Seem-Wildammo-7.jpg?w=720

And I will admit I cannot tell one way or the other from that picture. I would need some further corroboration before I could call it an "established fact" that the window was open or closed.

Further, how "closed" is closed? How "open", open? If I accept the assertion that the dark area is a blood stain on glass, could the image also suggest that the window was 3/4 closed?- since it appears to start approx. 6" down from the top of the door. Is a window that is shut 3/4 of the way "closed"?

Not really the reflection/glare goes all to the top, and sufficiently high so that nobody could lean in to get anything.

I did see someone tongue-in-cheek suggest that maybe it opened from the bottom.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Deflection noted.


Also, I would expect the conviction rate to be lower than for the general public considering police officers (1) are usually employed and can hire private attorneys or are a member of an FOP that supplies one (2) have no previous criminal history, and (3) have the benefit of acting in a work capacity, thus mitigating motive.

These aren't negligible differences.

OK there are two cases of cops getting charged. Nothing about the other cops on scene not backing them up like in so many other killings. The other cops would never tolerate a rat like that.

 

[Distracted1]

Not really the reflection/glare goes all to the top, and sufficiently high so that nobody could lean in to get anything.

I did see someone tongue-in-cheek suggest that maybe it opened from the bottom.

You may be correct. As I said, I can't tell one way or the other.
The portion labeled "glare" could be glare, I guess. Glare from what though?, that side of the vehicle is in shadow.

 

[Jules Galen]

In China, when a Policeman shoots an unarmed citizen, he better make sure it's a justified shooting:

http://english.sina.com/china/2014/0722/720712.html

Wow....they don't tolerate Police Brutality over there! Also, they continue to crack down on it by specifically allowing citizens to Film Police Arrests and Activities:

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2016/07/china-allows-citizens-film-police/

Can you think of a law, or official policy, anywhere in this country that specifically allows a citizen to record the police? I can't, although I could show you many laws that prohibit and penalize such recordings.

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Graber

 

[eeyore1954]

http://i1.wp.com/wildammo.com/wp-co...t-Exactly-What-They-Seem-Wildammo-7.jpg?w=720

And I will admit I cannot tell one way or the other from that picture. I would need some further corroboration before I could call it an "established fact" that the window was open or closed.

Further, how "closed" is closed? How "open", open? If I accept the assertion that the dark area is a blood stain on glass, could the image also suggest that the window was 3/4 closed?- since it appears to start approx. 6" down from the top of the door. Is a window that is shut 3/4 of the way "closed"?

To me it appears to be closed. But it is not an established fact. Looking at the picture which is extremely grainy the top half of the window seems to be a different shade than the bottom half. The bottom is a little darker as is the complete rear window. This could lead someone to feel the back window is closed and the front is half open. Why is there no glare on the top of the back window. I think you can see whatever you want to see from that picture. Hopefully forensics will show the actual state of the window.

 

[jimbob]

You may be correct. As I said, I can't tell one way or the other.
The portion labeled "glare" could be glare, I guess. Glare from what though?, that side of the vehicle is in shadow.

It's either all the way up or all the way down, and there is a *very* misleading angle with what looks like a blood streak starting on the top of the door and lining up exactly with a seatbelt that looks like the blood streak below it.

As cullenz, said, either he and I need new glasses, or the window is up.

 

[eeyore1954]

In China, when a Policeman shoots an unarmed citizen, he better make sure it's a justified shooting:

http://english.sina.com/china/2014/0722/720712.html

Wow....they don't tolerate Police Brutality over there! Also, they continue to crack down on it by specifically allowing citizens to Film Police Arrests and Activities:

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2016/07/china-allows-citizens-film-police/

Can you think of a law, or official policy, anywhere in this country that specifically allows a citizen to record the police? I can't, although I could show you many laws that prohibit and penalize such recordings.

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Graber

I don't think we want to hold up China's police system as a model.

 

[jimbob]

I don't think we want to hold up China's police system as a model.

Indeed, although they are claiming (somewhat unconvincingly) that they are clamping down on executions for organ transplants.

 

[sadhatter]

Black Lives Matter "Gets it", Colin Kapaernick "Gets it", people all over the country and other parts of the world "Get it"....but you and your ilk make sure that you don't "Get it". But that's o.k...because you are going to "Get it" whether you want it, or not. The protests are not going to away: they are going to continue. People will not be silenced. The more you fight it, the bigger it will get.

Yours Truely,

Harry Seldon

And how exactly do you see that being good for your cause?

We are in a political climate in which people are polarizing and becoming more extreme and undergoing a resurgence in extreme conservative views.

These riots might seem scary to others now, but when people get sick of them, and demand they be stopped is going to be a violent scary reality check. You don't have the numbers, plain and simple, and you are picking the wrong political environment to try and induce support via sympathy when the police decide to make a point of their own.

Your choices are to keep raging and cause severe Harm to your cause, or realize that using reason logic and social process can actually cause change.

 

[Jules Galen]

And how exactly do you see that being good for your cause?

We are in a political climate in which people are polarizing and becoming more extreme and undergoing a resurgence in extreme conservative views.

These riots might seem scary to others now, but when people get sick of them, and demand they be stopped is going to be a violent scary reality check. You don't have the numbers, plain and simple, and you are picking the wrong political environment to try and induce support via sympathy when the police decide to make a point of their own.

Your choices are to keep raging and cause severe Harm to your cause, or realize that using reason logic and social process can actually cause change.

The riots are stupid - and they have always been a stupid tactic.

If these BLM guys were smart, they'd take a lot of cues from the LGBT Movement - a very successful movement despite being stricken with the disease and stigma of AIDS just when it really got going. But the LGBT Movement won! And won big.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 12

 

[rwguinn]

First off your statement is false. Cops don't "always" do anything.

Secondly, the vast majority of these cases investigated by outside agencies (Cops who dont know each other) determine the officer acted reasonably.

So always assuming the worst would appear to be an irrational action.
This should be obvious.

Outside agency- other cops?
Yeah, that's unbiased. Absolutely nothing to fear about that.

 

[William Parcher]

The window glare and the continuation of the line are why I think the window is up.

It would need something special to convince me how the window could be down in that photo, and that does question the police account.

ETA: I have no view on the back door window, which I looks darker, and might be open or shut from that picture

IMO, what you have labeled as "glare" is part of the seat back. IMO, the window is entirely rolled down with no glass showing.

 

[ponderingturtle]

IMO, what you have labeled as "glare" is part of the seat back. IMO, the window is entirely rolled down with no glass showing.

His windshield also looks like he rolled it down.

 

[Distracted1]

IMO, what you have labeled as "glare" is part of the seat back. IMO, the window is entirely rolled down with no glass showing.

Could be that too.
The sunlight seems to be coming from in front -and slightly towards the passenger side- of the vehicle (guaging by the visible headlamp, and the side view mirror on the drivers' side).
If the light is coming directly in through the windshield, it could light up lighter colored objects inside the vehicle- as the lightly colored material on the dash is lit up- and make the drivers headrest, or something on the rear seat, appear more prominently than if they were in shade.

On the other hand, maybe the lighter spot is a reflection on glass.

ETA. The sun-roof also appears to be open. That could allow sunlight to be coming in through the roof and bouncing off of lightly colored objects as well.

 

[Distracted1]

His windshield also looks like he rolled it down.

Truly. It has no apparent glare coming off of it, even though the angle of the light looks as if it should be bouncing right off (note the headlamp)

 

[jimbob]

Less risky? Ummm, no. It's not. There are almost 13 million arrests per year, but only about 750,000 policemen. That means each policeman on average is involved in 17 arrests per year, but the typical citizen is involved in one every 25 years.

Another way of looking at it is that there are about 1/25th as many homicides of police as there are homicides by police, but there are over 400 times as many citizens as police. Therefore, the average policeman has a 400/25 = 16 times higher probability of being killed by a citizen as the average citizen does of being killed by the police.

I could break down these numbers by race as well, but I won't for now. I predict, however, that it will show you something that the Black Lives Matter people won't like.

Please do. Also, do you happen to have percentages on who is killed by who more often and by what percentage with police vs black people. (are more black people shot by police or are more black people shot by other black people. (percentages)

I think the crowdsourced statistics tell a different story.

From the Washington post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ite-people-were-shot-in-2015-than-minorities/

Most people who were shot were justified shootings. Most were armed and about half were white.

What is interesting is when the person was unarmed, which is where there is likely to be more of a question about the appropriateness of lethal force (sometimes it would still be justified). Then the ratio of blacks to whites jumps. The parsimonious explanation is that this is due to racial bias. This is supported by other statistics that show racial bias when they are collected

Over the past year, The Post found that the vast majority of those shot and killed by police were armed and half of them were white. Still, police killed blacks at three times the rate of whites when adjusted for the populations where these shootings occurred. And although black men represent 6 percent of the U.S. population, they made up nearly 40 percent of those who were killed while unarmed.

I make that jumping from 3x to 6.7x as the severity decreases.