Another unarmed black man shot

[Skeptic Ginger]

Ahhh...the old PCP ploy. When all else fails, claim the guy was on PCP and had super-human strength.

PCP provides someone Super-Human Strength and makes them more dangerous? Baloney!

Interesting also considering the guy looked as calm as the water on a windless lake.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Because you and Crump say so, it must be true. You have a link to this "enhanced still" that supposedly shows blood on the window? How far is the window rolled up?

Why would I make that up?

Video opens with the blowup the attorney's made, the window is up and blood shows clearly it was up when the man was shot.

 

[marplots]

I watched the videos several times, looking carefully for the weapon which justified the shooting. What was he going for, the lethal force element cops are trained to react to? It's hard to spot, but there if you know where to look. It's the SUV.

 

[tyr_13]

Alternatively, if your car is blocking the road because it's broken down and you think it's on fire, then you might fear it exploding.

True. This is even more likely if you're having a mental issue or are on something, like the caller suggested.

 

[Bogative]

Completely irrelevant since you should not get shot for disobeying orders while on PCP.

True, but it's completely relevant to counter the false narrative the family, their attorneys and the most of the media has been cranking out for the last several days. There's more to the story than him being a man of God, father of four, college student on his way home when his car broke down and was shot with his hands in the air while seeking help from the police.

Interesting also considering the guy looked as calm as the water on a windless lake.

I rarely agree with your political opinions, almost always respect your medical opinions when it comes to situations like this, but you are wrong about this and letting your biases cloud your judgment.

You, more so than most people on this board, should know the side effects of PCP that include but are not limited to:

Numbness and relaxation.
A sense of well-being and euphoria.
Problems concentrating.
Misperceptions of abilities including strength, speed, and invulnerability.
Odd, erratic, or unexpected behaviors.

Link

 

[Jules Galen]

True, but it's completely relevant to counter the false narrative the family, their attorneys and the most of the media has been cranking out for the last several days. There's more to the story than him being a man of God, father of four, college student on his way home when his car broke down and was shot with his hands in the air while seeking help from the police.



I rarely agree with your political opinions, almost always respect your medical opinions when it comes to situations like this, but you are wrong about this and letting your biases cloud your judgment.

You, more so than most people on this board, should know the side effects of PCP that include but are not limited to:

Sure, But if he's on PCP, he's also intoxicated and so he should be easier to handle if it comes to using force. PCP is not like Steroids - the preferred Cop drug - it does not give you strength, speed, acuity...nothing!

 

[tyr_13]

Sure, But if he's on PCP, he's also intoxicated and so he should be easier to handle if it comes to using force. PCP is not like Steroids - the preferred Cop drug - it does not give you strength, speed, acuity...nothing!

It does give much higher pain tolerance, and make people not stop at their normal limits that prevent us from injuring ourselves. In effect, it can increase the amount of strength brought to bear, but not your actual strength.

It can also provide resistance against older pain compliance tazers, but not the newer ones which overwhelm the neuromuscular reactions. Some people can resist that naturally though. In this case, whatever else they did wrong, they did not give the tazer enough time, and did not employ a second tazer.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... I rarely agree with your political opinions, almost always respect your medical opinions when it comes to situations like this, but you are wrong about this and letting your biases cloud your judgment.

You, more so than most people on this board, should know the side effects of PCP that include but are not limited to:

You misunderstand what I said.

I did not say, PCP does X, nor did I say, because the victim is calm, he's not on PCP. What I said was, there was nothing about his behavior that said dangerous PCP psychosis.

Think about it. Cops shoot a calm man with his hands up on his car. They made comments that because he was possibly acting odd, in a daze that, that he was a dangerously high guy on PCP. That's crazy.

Finding drugs later (if they actually did) and saying they shot him because he was crazy on drugs doesn't change the fact the man was not acting like a violent drug crazed man.


By the way, not surprisingly, I think the people that defend these cops despite the video evidence right in front of them are the ones with the biased clouded judgement.

 

[cullennz]

I haven't seen any where that said he was on PCP

Just reports there was some in the car and a refusal to say where in the car

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It does give much higher pain tolerance, and make people not stop at their normal limits that prevent us from injuring ourselves. In effect, it can increase the amount of strength brought to bear, but not your actual strength.

It can also provide resistance against older pain compliance tazers, but not the newer ones which overwhelm the neuromuscular reactions. Some people can resist that naturally though. In this case, whatever else they did wrong, they did not give the tazer enough time, and did not employ a second tazer.

Did they even use the tazer? The guy in the helicopter says they tazed him, then he corrects himself and says they shot the guy.

But you're right, either way the shot was premature.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I haven't seen any where that said he was on PCP

Just reports there was some in the car and a refusal to say where in the car

On one of the videos the cops say the guy looks crazy and dangerous, I think they mentioned PCP.

 

[Ammonitida]

Why would I make that up?

Video opens with the blowup the attorney's made, the window is up and blood shows clearly it was up when the man was shot.

I already determined that the window was rolled up using another method.

I still don't believe the cop "lied". They were mistaken by what they saw from their vantage point (they're relatively far away from him and the cop said it was his *left* hand that entered, which would have been a bit obscured from that angle). There's no other reasonable explanation.

It appears to be a Threat Perception Failure that was preceded by unusual behavior from a man who was possibly high on PCP. Contrary to what another poster said, him being high on such drugs is very relevant because if true it would support the part of her account that's not recorded on video. Basically, it would explain why she drew her weapon and treated him with suspicion. In other words, it would refute the BLM narrative that him being "black" was the only reason she drew it.

 

[Bogative]

You misunderstand what I said.

I did not say, PCP does X, nor did I say, because the victim is calm, he's not on PCP. What I said was, there was nothing about his behavior that said dangerous PCP psychosis.

Yes, maybe I did misunderstand you, but you made it sound like someone has to show signs of overt aggressiveness and anger to be considered dangerous. I've read accounts of people who were on PCP that brutally murdered others while showing no emotion or signs of agitation, nothing that would indicate they were psychotic. That is how the drug affects a lot of people.

Think about it. Cops shoot a calm man with his hands up on his car. They made comments that because he was possibly acting odd, in a daze that, that he was a dangerously high guy on PCP. That's crazy.

Those very behaviors and others he exhibited are indicators of being high on PCP. One of the officers in the helicopter commented that it looked like Crutcher was "high on something" after observing him for about 30 seconds. Police are trained to recognize these behaviors.

By the way, not surprisingly, I think the people that defend these cops despite the video evidence right in front of them are the ones with the biased clouded judgement.

Just as I think of the people who condemn the police based solely on the skin color of the victim, despite the evidence.

 

[Wayward son]

police spokeswoman Jeanne MacKenzie
Quote:
After the shooting, Crutcher could be seen lying on the side of the road, blood pooling around his body, for nearly two minutes before anyone checked on him. When asked why police did not provide immediate assistance, MacKenzie said: "I don't know that we have protocol on how to render aid to people."

IF this information is accurate I feel she should be fired and charged: "Betty Shelby is a trained EMS Basic,” said Lewis, a lead organizer with police accountability group We The People Oklahoma. “She’s trained. She did not render aid at all. She also has a trauma bag issued in her trunk. They let him lay there two-plus minutes. She did not even render aid at all."

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yes, maybe I did misunderstand you, but you made it sound like someone has to show signs of overt aggressiveness and anger to be considered dangerous. ....

So all the rest of that aside, all you have here is, gee, anyone on the street could be dangerous.

Yes, he has to show signs of overt aggressiveness to warrant being on sight! What the hell did they shoot him for? Contempt of cop? Trying to reach through the glass of a rolled up car window? What was the problem that required deadly force?

Have people lost all common sense?

 

[Pterodactyl]

IF this information is accurate I feel she should be fired and charged: "Betty Shelby is a trained EMS Basic,” said Lewis, a lead organizer with police accountability group We The People Oklahoma. “She’s trained. She did not render aid at all. She also has a trauma bag issued in her trunk. They let him lay there two-plus minutes. She did not even render aid at all."

It's a fair question to ask why someone did not render aid.
I am not sure that an officer who just shot someone could or should be expected to be mentally competent to render aid him/herself directly after shooting that person. That's a pretty heavy thing to have to do, then to shift into EMT mode?
Maybe not realistic.

 

[Wayward son]

Back in the summer of 2001 I watched 4 police officers take down a very agitated man who was swinging at them with a knife. A big knife. The officers arrived to the man ranting and raving walking around in a circle on his front lawn. They tried to de-escalate the situation by talking to him. Then when the man came at them with the knife they pepper sprayed him, one grabbed his arm, twisted it, knife fell. They gently brought him down to ground. Handcuffed him and put him in the back of ambulance with one or two officers hopping in. I was about 50 feet away and scared. No officer even pulled their gun (this was in Canada). If police departments don't start working on de-escalating situations, instead of massively escalating situations, I think that they will lose what ever legitimacy they have left. LEOs are paid well and they are paid to accept some risk to serve and protect. There were 4 officers, shooting was beyond unnecessary.

 

[Pterodactyl]

So all the rest of that aside, all you have here is, gee, anyone on the street could be dangerous.

Yes, he has to show signs of overt aggressiveness to warrant being on sight! What the hell did they shoot him for? Contempt of cop? Trying to reach through the glass of a rolled up car window? What was the problem that required deadly force?

Have people lost all common sense?

Common sense on one hand says to just obey the cops and keep your hands up and out of your pockets.

Common sense on another hand would tell you not to get high on PCP, park in the middle of the street and refuse to comply with police.

Now to a cop whose adrenalin is pumping because they're not getting compliance from some dude who parked in the middle of the road, common sense would probably suggest that if he's refusing to obey his commands and reaching into his pockets, he's got something in there he wants out and it might be dangerous.

Is suspicion of that grounds to kill someone? Surely not. But common sense should tell you that it will happen from time to time in high stress situations. It's unfortunate, but it's different than murder.

 

[Wayward son]

I am not sure that an officer who just shot someone could or should be expected to be mentally competent to render aid him/herself directly after shooting that person.

As far as I am concerned if you can't function enough to render basic aid, which you are trained to do, after firing your gun then you shouldn't have a job with a gun.

 

[Puppycow]

A Tulsa Police official confirmed to the Tulsa World Tuesday afternoon that officers found PCP in the vehicle used by Terence Crutcher the night he was fatally shot by police.


Could explain why he repeatedly disobeyed orders and parked his vehicle in the middle the street.

Maybe, but I hear a lot of stories about police planting evidence. Occasionally some are caught. Are the few who get caught just the tip of the iceberg?

How Often Do Cops Plant Evidence? No One Knows For Sure

In New York City, in 2008, an officer was caught planting drugs on four men in a bar; he later testified that he was helping out a fellow officer who needed to make his arrest quota.

In Camden, New Jersey a group of officers were put on trial in 2013 for planting evidence; threatening people with arrest or charging people based on that evidence; taking drugs without reporting the seizure, in order to have drugs available to plant; and adding planted drugs to real evidence, in order to increase penalties in particular cases. In this case, all four officers were found guilty.

Bombshell Interview: Cop Reveals That “Planting Evidence And Lying” Are Just “Part Of The Game”

If cops will plant evidence for a petty reason like making an arrest quota, what lengths might they go to to protect a fellow LEO in a case like this?