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JFK Conspiracy Theories IV: The One With The Whales

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No. Just supply some evidence that actually supports that claim.

Do you understand why nothing you have posted yet does that?

Do you understand why asking about apparent anomalies, based on the memories of those who handled the body,

What? Like this?

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/images/CE386.jpg

does not compensate for the remainder of the photographic record beyond the select few images you repeatedly post?



Q. And when you were referring to the mark somewhat below, you were referring to something at approximately the six-centimeter mark?

Humes: Yeah, I don't know what that is. A little drop of blood or what, I have no idea.

You obviously want to convince us of your theory, or you would not be posting it. People are trying to point out why you are not convincing us. Repeating poor evidence does not make it more convincing.

Cowlick evidence is the poor evidence. You have what? A picture of a drop of blood? A skull x-ray showing a crack you say is an entrance wound? Maybe a distorted quote here or there if you want to get creative?
 
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Nope, just married to the original information from people who were there and saw the body. Speer's site works with the medical evidence at face value, no evidence fabrication needed. Sorry if the EOP wound disagrees with your pet theory that there was no conspiracy or coverup of any kind.

Apparently only the ones you agree with.

I prefer to rely on the totality of the evidence filtered through the little part of the universe that I'm most familiar with.

BTW, were those GIFs autopsy photos or picture of wolverines humping? I couldn't determine what the hell they were.

Speer doesn't fabricate, he hand waves. The national sport of Conspiraland.
 
...wat?

You think JFK grabbing his throat was in reaction to being shot in the head?

I'll give you points for originality. I can honestly say I've never heard that one before.

What? I thought most people thought this was some kind of involuntary reaction? Watch the film, he isn't reaching for his throat. If he is, he is very disoriented.
 
What? Like this?

[qimg]http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/images/CE386.jpg[/qimg]



[qimg]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lLWqbNL8Zgo/UYraEfUOHfI/AAAAAAAAuis/RtjG5B8TugM/s1600/JFK_Autopsy_Photo_BOH.jpg[/qimg]

Q. And when you were referring to the mark somewhat below, you were referring to something at approximately the six-centimeter mark?

Humes: Yeah, I don't know what that is. A little drop of blood or what, I have no idea.



Cowlick evidence is the poor evidence. You have what? A picture of a drop of blood? A skull x-ray showing a crack you say is an entrance wound? Maybe a distorted quote here or there if you want to get creative?

You just posted evidence that agrees with those "shills".

That photo (which should be NSFW tagged) shows a bullet hole where the autopsy claims, and the larger wound (not just on the forehead, you will notice) expected from the trauma wave exploding out the head.

This, by the by, is what we see in the Zapruda film.

Nothing you posted suggests a second shot to the head, except in your own misunderstanding.
 
Apparently everybody arguing with me has decided that the best course of action is to play dumb. Nobody can refute the EOP wound because all of the evidence is from the original official records or subsequent research involving people who actually saw and handled the body.
 
Apparently everybody arguing with me has decided that the best course of action is to play dumb. Nobody can refute the EOP wound because all of the evidence is from the original official records or subsequent research involving people who actually saw and handled the body.


Pat Speer neither saw nor handled the body.
 
Apparently everybody arguing with me has decided that the best course of action is to play dumb. Nobody can refute the EOP wound because all of the evidence is from the original official records or subsequent research involving people who actually saw and handled the body.

Everything you just said are a bunch of long established lies.

The LONE headshot comes from behind. It's on film. People who shoot know this to be true, people who do not shoot, nor care about facts, do not.

The CTers are the shills, they're the ones making money off of lies. You need to do better research, which you have yet to demonstrate on this or any other thread you've posted on.
 
Everything you just said are a bunch of long established lies.

The LONE headshot comes from behind. It's on film. People who shoot know this to be true, people who do not shoot, nor care about facts, do not.

The CTers are the shills, they're the ones making money off of lies. You need to do better research, which you have yet to demonstrate on this or any other thread you've posted on.

That's nice and all, but what are you going to do when the lurkers figure out what a tangential gunshot wound is?

http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/md/Boswell01.JPG

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/BE7_HI.JPG
 
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If there was no hole right by the EOP, then why was the cerebellum slightly damaged...

Because a bullet doesn't have to strike the cerebellum to damage it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tex378zgV1k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTHo0K2Sc0g

Note the track of the bullet, note the disruption throughout the gelatin.

Now imagine this is a brain.


... and the brain stem completely severed?

It wasn't. You quoted the testimony of Humes that said it wasn't. Nothing you quoted, except for claims by Jenkins about three decades after the fact say anything about the brain stem being completely severed.

Hank
 
That's nice and all, but what are you going to do when the lurkers figure out what a tangential gunshot wound is?

[qimg]http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/md/Boswell01.JPG[/qimg]

How many decades after the fact did Boswell in fact mark this image?

Or did Boswell not mark this image at all?

Hank
 
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Because a bullet doesn't have to strike the cerebellum to damage it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tex378zgV1k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTHo0K2Sc0g

Note the track of the bullet, note the disruption throughout the gelatin.

Now imagine this is a brain.

I don't know, that's one hypothetical. You're talking about the bullet directly hitting like five inches above the disturbed area. For what it's worth, Dr. Humes thought it was caused by a bullet. This was not a strange suggestion, as the small wound was right by the cerebellum, as Dr. Humes and others established.


It wasn't. You quoted the testimony of Humes that said it wasn't. Nothing you quoted, except for claims by Jenkins about three decades after the fact say anything about the brain stem being completely severed.

Hank

It was still at least damaged. The damage was apparently interesting enough to take a tissue slide of it. I wonder if Jenkins was actually describing Humes surgically disconnecting the stem at that moment.

Another question from me: Why was the entrance wound described as slanting to the left?

How many decades after the fact did Boswell in fact mark this image?

Or did Boswell not mark this image at all?

I used that AARB diagram to illustrate it's resemblance to the F8 photo. Boswell ALWAYS placed the wound by the EOP. He created nearly identical face sheets for the autopsy report, a 11/25/1966 issue of the Baltimore Sun, and the HSCA.

Why? Do you still think the red spot could be anything more than some kind of two-dimensional jot? The unlikelihood of that being an entrance wound can not be fully appreciated without seeing a high-quality, un-darkened copy:


9vFW9cC.jpg
 
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(a) Straw man argument. I didn't say LHO dropped the rifle, I said the rifle was dropped between some boxes. I never specified by whom.
Then who dropped it and how do you know who dropped it? You used the wrong fallacy, this is not even close to a Straw Man argument...

No, you tried to put words into my mouth, claiming I said something I didn't. The strawman argument is yours.



(b) The weapon wasn't exactly well-hidden. Oswald (or whomever) could have put it in an outgoing box destined for shipment to himself and it would never have been found in the Depository, correct? Instead it was found on the northwest side of the building immediately next to the stairwell that leads to an escape. Oswald (or whomever used it, but most likely Oswald) would have carried the weapon to the stairwell to facilitate his escape (he didn't know how quickly the cops would respond, and indeed, one of them [Officer Baker] was inside the building within about 40-60 seconds of the assassination). Once he reached the stairwell, the rifle (which could have been used to shoot one officer) was abandoned amongst some boxes. Having served its purpose, there was no need to take care of it any longer. The shooter would have simply dropped it amongst some boxes with one and shoved another box over it with the other. He would not have taken care to place it gingerly anywhere -- the goal at that point (whether the shooter is Oswald or someone else intent on framing Oswald) is to get out of the building as quickly as possible. Every second of delay adds to his chance of discovery. So I don't need to show proof the rifle was dropped. You would need to show evidence it wasn't, contrary to all the reasonable reconstructions of the event.
Wow, this is entertaining but nothing factual.

It's entirely factual. Tell me what, specifically, is wrong.

Tell us why it's not your responsibility to account for the damage to the rifle. Are you suggesting it was planted with a defective scope? If not, what exactly are you suggesting? Or don't you know? I think you're suggesting a shooter (specifically Oswald) could not have performed the assassination with the scope in that condition. You'd be wrong for a variety of reasons, not least because the scope isn't even necessary to the performance of the assassination. The iron sights are perfectly adequate. I made four of six shots using the iron sights on a 1917 (WWI) Mannlicher-Carcano on July 5th, 2015 at 100 yards, after a few minutes of walk-through with a ex-military gun buff. I had never fired a weapon before in my life.

The other reason we know that weapon was used (and that if the scope was used in the assassination it wasn't damaged) was the ballistics evidence indicates that weapon was used. The ballistic evidence includes six items that link the weapon to the shooting (three shells recovered at the window; two fragments recovered from the limo; one bullet recovered at Parkland). All six items were linked ballistically to the rifle found in the Depository to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world.



(c) The weapon had an out of alignment telescopic sight. That is consistent with it being dropped. It is inconsistent with it being handled carefully.
A weapon with an out of alignment telescopic sight being consistent with it being dropped is like frontal lobotomy being consistent with a headache. Both are correct but are not necessarily linked unless you can provide that one caused the other. All you have done is provided a guess.

I disagree with your analogy. And since nobody was up there filming after the assassin left the window, we'll just have to guess. You have mine. What's your best guess as to why the scope was out of alignment when tested?



The ball has to be moved with facts and not with speculation, you have not provided anything that pushes your claim. Do you wish to include something that has merit?

Reasonable speculation has merit. See this post from another thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9311653&postcount=23



Heck, we are talking about a rifle that was never even tested for recent firings when in the hands of the Dallas Police or FBI.

I've seen that claim in conspiracy books for DECADES. Curiously, not one conspiracy book I've read ever names this test or tells us how it's performed.

Enlighten us about this test for recent firings of a firearm... how exactly does that test work? What's that test called?

Or read the thread (and its predecessor threads) and learn what points not to bring up.

Hank
 
It can be used or ignored, depending on the preference of the shooter. The iron sights are always available. So we just don't know if the shooter used the scope or the iron sights, and we just don't know if the scope was in the same condition during the shooting as it was found after the shooting.

All complaints about the scope are meaningless, because there's no evidence that scope was necessary to the commission of the assassination.

Your question reduces to railing against the darkness, instead of just clapping your hands together and turning on the light.
I guess if you would have known this prior to your posting about the dropping of the rifle, there would not be a need to defend your comment.

Are you talking about the rifle having iron sights? I've known about them since about 1965... when I first read the Warren Report. What argument are you advancing here? That your prior arguments about the scope are meaningless?


By the way, your homilies and superfluous comments advance your image of a Thinker but if you continue to refer to fallacies or endearments it would do you good if you can state one that is germane.

I'm hardly a thinker of the first order. I'm a high school dropout, in fact. I hold no special expertise in any field relevant to the assassination. I'm more like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. I've just been around these parts for so long (well into my third decade arguing this nonsense online - starting with Prodigy) that I've seen so many of these silly conspiracy arguments with no factual basis, I can rebut them in my sleep.

Including yours.

Hank
 
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The people who handled the body are more important than panels of shills made to play cleanup.

I would like to point out once again that you are simply begging the question... that is, imbedding in your argument the very facts you must prove.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html

Description of Begging the Question

Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the following form.

1.Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
2.Claim C (the conclusion) is true.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true."

Some cases of question begging are fairly blatant, while others can be extremely subtle.


I think if you stop doing that, we'd all be better off.

Hank
 
So every one of the 5 panels of forensic pathologists was paid? And they willingly covered up the murder of the president by falsifying results?

That's a pretty heavy charge that you have no proof of.

Especially since it includes long-time conspiracy theorist Cyril Wecht, who admitted there's no evidence of two shots to the head:


Mr. PURDY. Dr. Wecht, does the present state of available evidence permit the conclusion that to a reasonable degree of medical certainty there was not a shot from the side which struck the President?
Dr. WECHT. Yes, with reasonable medical certainty I would have to say that the evidence is not there. I have already said it is a remote possibility and I certainly cannot equate that with reasonable medical certainty.
Mr. PURDY. Thank you.



We know the top right side of the presidents head was blasted out. That's evident in every autopsy photo, every x-ray, the autopsy report and the Zapruder film. If your hypothetical EOP entry wound could not have caused the damage we know for a fact was there, would that not mean that your hypothetical EOP entry wound does not fit the evidence and is in fact incorrect?

Oh, that's easy. The autopsy photos are fakes. So is the Zapruder film. So are the x-rays. And the autopsy report is a bunch of lies.

We've all seen all that before. Everything is faked that points to Oswald doing it. Everything else, even if it comes from the same sources, is true.

So, for example, anything the FBI said in any memo that points to Oswald can be discarded, because they were part of the cover-up. Unless they said something in a memo that can be interpreted as evidence of conspiracy -- then it's gospel.

Hank
 
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