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JFK Conspiracy Theories IV: The One With The Whales

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Researchers found that the people who handled the body weren't as sure as you want it to sound (but they kept it on the down-low).

The people who handled the body never had access to the autopsy photos after the fact and were reciting everything from memory and quoting their report. The Rydberg drawing was done from memory. The first time any of them saw the autopsy photos was 15 years after the fact.

Yeah, they weren't sure, which is exactly what you'd expect.

The people who handled the body are more important than panels of shills made to play cleanup.

So every one of the 5 panels of forensic pathologists was paid? And they willingly covered up the murder of the president by falsifying results?

That's a pretty heavy charge that you have no proof of.

The EOP wound couldn't deflect enough to exit out of the top-right side of the head

Since you're arguing in favor of the EOP wound, are you then saying that the damage to the top right of the presidents head could not have been caused by it?

You're losing me here.

We know the top right side of the presidents head was blasted out. That's evident in every autopsy photo, every x-ray, the autopsy report and the Zapruder film. If your hypothetical EOP entry wound could not have caused the damage we know for a fact was there, would that not mean that your hypothetical EOP entry wound does not fit the evidence and is in fact incorrect?
 
(a) Straw man argument. I didn't say LHO dropped the rifle, I said the rifle was dropped between some boxes. I never specified by whom.
Then who dropped it and how do you know who dropped it? You used the wrong fallacy, this is not even close to a Straw Man argument...

Wow, this is entertaining but nothing factual.

A weapon with an out of alignment telescopic sight being consistent with it being dropped is like frontal lobotomy being consistent with a headache. Both are correct but are not necessarily linked unless you can provide that one caused the other. All you have done is provided a guess.

The ball has to be moved with facts and not with speculation, you have not provided anything that pushes your claim. Do you wish to include something that has merit? Heck, we are talking about a rifle that was never even tested for recent firings when in the hands of the Dallas Police or FBI.
It matters not who drops it. The battle zero will be lost anyway. The scope in question was particularly prone to that even without being dropped. The scope was unnecessary for the shots in question and in any event was a see-under scope allowing for use of the iron sights.
 
Researchers found that the people who handled the body weren't as sure as you want it to sound (but they kept it on the down-low).

And yet we can compare these later claims to a full autopsy record, and photographs.

The people who handled the body are more important than panels of shills made to play cleanup.
Actually, they are not. All are valuable as historic sources.
Luckily, we do not have to rely on conflicting memories, because we can refer to the records to validate.

Objective evidence trumps subjective opinions.

The EOP wound couldn't deflect enough to exit out of the top-right side of the head,
I advise you again, to consider the fluid dynamics of the trauma. To consider what, other than the direct trajectory of the bullet, could cause the larger exit wound.

Think about the trauma wave. What happens when it hits the skull.

and there is no medical evidence connecting the back wound to the throat wound.

Do you understand how that conclusion was reached?
 
We have the autopsy report.

Yes?
entry.jpg


We have the autopsy photographs.

Yes?

F8-JFK-Autopsy-Photo-Pat-Speer.gif


We can see if that is truly a "wound to forehead" as you are trying to categorise it.
Or we can see if it is a wound who has one extent at the forehead.
We can, in short, put those closely cropped images into context. We can put their description into context. Yet you seem to be making an effort not to register this.

We can, in point of fact, test the accuracy of those later claims, because we have accurate records from the time.


Again, you really would have been wise to see what has already been discussed on the previous threads. The context of those photographs was covered at length.

What are you talking about? The big wound was on the top-right side of the head. Not the "forehead" as most people think of it. The HSCA said that the F8 autopsy photo(s) depict the forehead. This is incorrect.

No evidence provided by people who saw the body put the small head wound above the ears.

lipsey_wound.jpg
 
Yes?

No evidence provided by people who saw the body put the small head wound above the ears.

[qimg]http://www.paulseaton.com/jfk/boh/beth/piks/lipsey_wound.jpg[/qimg]

Why do you only use close cropped images?

My point is simple: It doesn't matter where "anybody who handled the body" put the wound... We have photographs of all wounds.
We have their location in context.

You are mistaken by claiming there is one wound on the back of the head, and one big wound. There are entry and exit points OF THE SAME WOUND.

We know where the bullet entered. We know where the ejecta blew out. It is ONE WOUND. We have the full record, to view it in context.

Your interpretation, your trust of some peoples memories, over the full record of evidence, your selection of close cropped images over the rest, is of no consequence. They won't convince us. They aren't news. They won't change our minds.
 
The people who handled the body never had access to the autopsy photos after the fact and were reciting everything from memory and quoting their report. The Rydberg drawing was done from memory. The first time any of them saw the autopsy photos was 15 years after the fact.

Yeah, they weren't sure, which is exactly what you'd expect.

Did anyone who was there for the autopsy acknowledge the existence of a cowlick wound when showed the red spot in the photos?

So every one of the 5 panels of forensic pathologists was paid? And they willingly covered up the murder of the president by falsifying results?

That's a pretty heavy charge that you have no proof of.

Yes? They were indeed paid with actual money. They didn't have to literally lie, just cram together some puzzle pieces that didn't quite fit. Like placing the small head wound high above the ears.


Since you're arguing in favor of the EOP wound, are you then saying that the damage to the top right of the presidents head could not have been caused by it?

You're losing me here.

We know the top right side of the presidents head was blasted out. That's evident in every autopsy photo, every x-ray, the autopsy report and the Zapruder film. If your hypothetical EOP entry wound could not have caused the damage we know for a fact was there, would that not mean that your hypothetical EOP entry wound does not fit the evidence and is in fact incorrect?

Two bullets to the head.
 
Did anyone who was there for the autopsy acknowledge the existence of a cowlick wound when showed the red spot in the photos?



Yes? They were indeed paid with actual money. They didn't have to literally lie, just cram together some puzzle pieces that didn't quite fit. Like placing the small head wound high above the ears.
.

What is your better explanation for the wounds portrayed in the autopsy photographs? By which I mean ALL the wounds, in all photographs, not just that enlarged and cropped image you repeatedly post.

If the analysis of the autopsy as given, is wrong, please offer the alternative explanation.

Because, once again, we have objective evidence, that trumps later recollection. We can measure and analyse it. Which means, if the interpretation is wrong, you can offer a better explanation.

Go ahead.
 
Why do you only use close cropped images?

My point is simple: It doesn't matter where "anybody who handled the body" put the wound... We have photographs of all wounds.

Yes?

BE7_HI.JPG



We have their location in context.

Yes?

G8wSxaU.jpg


You are mistaken by claiming there is one wound on the back of the head, and one big wound. There are entry and exit points OF THE SAME WOUND.

We know where the bullet entered. We know where the ejecta blew out. It is ONE WOUND. We have the full record, to view it in context.

Your interpretation, your trust of some peoples memories, over the full record of evidence, your selection of close cropped images over the rest, is of no consequence. They won't convince us. They aren't news. They won't change our minds.

That's some fascinating logic. Did I really have to spell out to you that I'm talking about the Kennedy being shot in the head more than once?
 
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Researchers found that the people who handled the body weren't as sure as you want it to sound (but they kept it on the down-low).

"Researchers" translates into CTists who wrote a book with cherry-picked, out of context statements to support their bias, and sell books to idiots (like me).

The people who handled the body are more important than panels of shills made to play cleanup.

"Shills" indicates your bias. If you have a medical condition that required emergency surgery do you want a surgeon to do it, or an orderly?


The EOP wound couldn't deflect enough to exit out of the top-right side of the head, and there is no medical evidence connecting the back wound to the throat wound.

Here your ignorance of ballistics kills your argument again. The 6.5 round either cavitated or just blasted straight through. You leave out the fact that JFK's head is at the right angle that is consistent with a through and through.

For a guy who links to the Zapruder film so often I wonder if you've even seen it.


I'd be lying if I said I didn't speculate possible shot sequences in my mind and judge the evidence based on what I know, but the head wound almost certainly had to be caused by at least two bullets if the small wound was all the way down near the EOP as the evidence shows. Even if all of the shots were from behind, a shill may have lit a firecracker on the grassy knoll as a basic distraction technique.

Good lord - no. Just no. Two bullets would have been obvious because they would not have struck at the same time unless they were fired at the exact same time with the shooters standing shoulder to shoulder. Even then, the result would have been partial decapitation of everything above the lower jaw.

Coordinating shots between Oswald and a second shooter in another location so that the rounds impacted at the exact same time would have taken a lot of work, and radio communication, and weeks of DAILY practice to achieve. Without that work, the bullets reach their target at different times.

Which is why nobody would be stupid enough to do it.

We get it, you've never fired a gun, certainly never a rifle, which is why anyone who has finds your theories laughable. Shooting is simple, shooting to kill is simple (toddlers do it all too often). The harder you make it, the harder the shot becomes, the harder the shot becomes the less likely striking the target becomes. Bullets fly in a straight line (mostly. The line working backwards from JFK's body goes right back to the 6th floor window.

Then your next problem with ballistics is the issue of the 6.5×52mm round...It's proprietary to the Carcano, or to use words you can understand, the only rifle 6.5×52mm rounds can be fired from are the Carcano.

For example, today if someone is murdered with 4.6×30mm bullets the police can find the killer by looking for someone with an HK MP-7. Why? Because 4.6×30mm round was designed for the MP-7. No other gun uses it, so you don't waste time looking for other weapon's types.


More importantly is the damage inflicted on JFK and Connally is exclusive to the 6.5×52mm round. In other words, Oswald might as well have autographed his bullets. Again, ballistics is where the JFK CT falls apart. Had they used a generic .762 or 30-06 rifle there would be room to play since there were as many of those in Texas and there were rattlesnakes. Also, the .762 was the prefered caliber of marksmen in 1963, certainly mafia or CIA/Military trained marksmen.

Oswald's Carcano not only killed Kennedy, it continues to kill the second gunman theory. Is impossible to argue against the Carcano since the ballistics evidence excludes all other bullets and leads directly to the 6.5×52mm.
 
That's some fascinating logic. Did I really have to spell out to you that I'm talking about the President being shot in the head more than once?

No. Just supply some evidence that actually supports that claim.

Do you understand why nothing you have posted yet does that?

Do you understand why asking about apparent anomalies, based on the memories of those who handled the body, does not compensate for the remainder of the photographic record beyond the select few images you repeatedly post?

You obviously want to convince us of your theory, or you would not be posting it. People are trying to point out why you are not convincing us. Repeating poor evidence does not make it more convincing.
 
Yes? They were indeed paid with actual money. They didn't have to literally lie, just cram together some puzzle pieces that didn't quite fit. Like placing the small head wound high above the ears.

You're alleging that 5 panels of professionals willingly aided in the cover up of the murder of the president in exchange for money. You're making that accusation without any proof.

If you ever wonder why people have a distaste for conspiracy theorists, there is your answer.


Two bullets to the head.

Did both of the shots strike the rear of the head? If so, where is the second entry wound?

The case for shots from the book depository with the Carcano is ironclad. Multiple witnesses saw the gunman, witnesses inside the depository heard the cycling of the rifle and spent shells hitting the floor, a rifle and 3 shells were found, and 2 large fragments definitively fired from the Carcano were recovered from under the seats (corresponding to the 2 areas of damage inside the vehicle).

Can you make as convincing a case for a second shooter from somewhere else behind?
 
Here your ignorance of ballistics kills your argument again. The 6.5 round either cavitated or just blasted straight through. You leave out the fact that JFK's head is at the right angle that is consistent with a through and through.

Angle consistent with a through-and-through? What? If you mean the cowlick entrance is, it's not. Even a cowlick entry would have to deflect to the left or it would exit the face. Screenshots from Dale Meyer's animation shows that a straight line like that would trace more than 100 feet above the roof of the Dal-Tex.


Good lord - no. Just no. Two bullets would have been obvious because they would not have struck at the same time unless they were fired at the exact same time with the shooters standing shoulder to shoulder. Even then, the result would have been partial decapitation of everything above the lower jaw.

Coordinating shots between Oswald and a second shooter in another location so that the rounds impacted at the exact same time would have taken a lot of work, and radio communication, and weeks of DAILY practice to achieve. Without that work, the bullets reach their target at different times.

Which is why nobody would be stupid enough to do it.

We get it, you've never fired a gun, certainly never a rifle, which is why anyone who has finds your theories laughable. Shooting is simple, shooting to kill is simple (toddlers do it all too often). The harder you make it, the harder the shot becomes, the harder the shot becomes the less likely striking the target becomes. Bullets fly in a straight line (mostly. The line working backwards from JFK's body goes right back to the 6th floor window.

Then your next problem with ballistics is the issue of the 6.5×52mm round...It's proprietary to the Carcano, or to use words you can understand, the only rifle 6.5×52mm rounds can be fired from are the Carcano.

For example, today if someone is murdered with 4.6×30mm bullets the police can find the killer by looking for someone with an HK MP-7. Why? Because 4.6×30mm round was designed for the MP-7. No other gun uses it, so you don't waste time looking for other weapon's types.


More importantly is the damage inflicted on JFK and Connally is exclusive to the 6.5×52mm round. In other words, Oswald might as well have autographed his bullets. Again, ballistics is where the JFK CT falls apart. Had they used a generic .762 or 30-06 rifle there would be room to play since there were as many of those in Texas and there were rattlesnakes. Also, the .762 was the prefered caliber of marksmen in 1963, certainly mafia or CIA/Military trained marksmen.

Oswald's Carcano not only killed Kennedy, it continues to kill the second gunman theory. Is impossible to argue against the Carcano since the ballistics evidence excludes all other bullets and leads directly to the 6.5×52mm.

That's a hilarious strawman. The EOP wound did not have to be made at or near the 313 shot. It could be responsible for the 224 reactions.
 
That's a hilarious strawman. The EOP wound did not have to be made at or near the 313 shot. It could be responsible for the 224 reactions.

...wat?

You think JFK grabbing his throat was in reaction to being shot in the head?

I'll give you points for originality. I can honestly say I've never heard that one before.
 
Do you know why the rifle wasn't tested?

There is no test that can prove a weapon has been - RECENTLY - fired. All a test on a weapon can prove is that the weapon WAS fired, but not WHEN it was fired.

That's why real detectives look for corroborative evidence like spent shell casings, and testing for GSR, and conducting a full investigation.

So you're all worked up about a test that never existed, congrats.:thumbsup:
 
Did anyone who was there for the autopsy acknowledge the existence of a cowlick wound when showed the red spot in the photos?
What, precisely, do you mean by a "cowlick" wound and which exact photos are you referring to?

Yes? They were indeed paid with actual money.
What of it? I have been an expert witness at trial. I was paid handsomely for my time. Didn't influence my assessment.

They didn't have to literally lie, just cram together some puzzle pieces that didn't quite fit. Like placing the small head wound high above the ears.
Which pieces do not fit? So far, you have introduced pieces which are not pieces at all.

Two bullets to the head.
Evidence for that claim please. So far you have none.
 
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Angle consistent with a through-and-through? What? If you mean the cowlick entrance is, it's not. Even a cowlick entry would have to deflect to the left or it would exit the face. Screenshots from Dale Meyer's animation shows that a straight line like that would trace more than 100 feet above the roof of the Dal-Tex.




That's a hilarious strawman. The EOP wound did not have to be made at or near the 313 shot. It could be responsible for the 224 reactions.


More Pat Speer?

Oswald fired four shots instead of three but it was still Oswald? Well, at least, we're getting somewhere.
 
Angle consistent with a through-and-through? What? If you mean the cowlick entrance is, it's not. Even a cowlick entry would have to deflect to the left or it would exit the face. Screenshots from Dale Meyer's animation shows that a straight line like that would trace more than 100 feet above the roof of the Dal-Tex.

No. Only JFK-CT loons believe this.

Thanks for ignoring the ballistic evidence...again.:thumbsup:
 
You're alleging that 5 panels of professionals willingly aided in the cover up of the murder of the president in exchange for money. You're making that accusation without any proof.

If you ever wonder why people have a distaste for conspiracy theorists, there is your answer.

Can you spend money in Federal Prison? That's where people who obstruct an investigation of a Federal Crime end up.

Even medical experts.
 
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