Brexit: Now What? Part II

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Airfix said:
This might surprise you, but there are nearly 2000 Syrian refugees who have been treated in Israeli hospitals.

So, what's to stop us offering to provide asylum to the Syrian refugees in Israeli hospitals once they are well ?

And what is to stop the UN offering to build policed camps just inside the Israeli border next to Syria, camps which could each contain their own airstrip, camps which can be accessed from Syria but offer no passage into Israel, camps which can provide asylum processing ?

Is it possible that Mr Netanyahu could agree to that, if his country didn't have to pay for it or provide access to the people in those camps ?

Look, I know there's not much chance of it Netanyahu is a terrible person, but if there's any chance at all, it's worth asking. People are dying.
We need to try. Anything's got to be better than allowing 2500 people to drown at sea.
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No doesn't surprise me at all because the only Syrians refugees that Israel has dealt with have been medical cases. This article will show you the real position http://www.fmreview.org/syria/plotner.html
 
Airfix said:
Because Brexit gives the EU Commission the kick up it's arse that it needed to start rethinking it's policies and practices and actually meaningfully reform.
And if they were to scrap Schengen, the trafficking of people across the continent would be harder.
The continent needs to become a less attractive destination for the trafficking industry.
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They aren't going to scrap Schengen and no amount of small-minded little Englanders voting to be out of the EU is going to change that. If anything it's only given more strength to the right in the EU who will try to claim this as vindication for their 'put up the shutters' approach.

The same rabid right that you have just turned the UK over to with your vote. The people who are trying to reduce the opportunities for legal immigration into the UK. Making illegal immigration the only route in.

Perhaps the only benefit of Brexit on this is that without the mouths of people like Farage flapping Europe can get on and find a progressive solution that works without hindrance from the UK. That might be asking too much however.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
They aren't going to scrap Schengen and no amount of small-minded little Englanders voting to be out of the EU is going to change that. If anything it's only given more strength to the right in the EU who will try to claim this as vindication for their 'put up the shutters' approach.

The same rabid right that you have just turned the UK over to with your vote. The people who are trying to reduce the opportunities for legal immigration into the UK. Making illegal immigration the only route in.
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So your answer is not to control immigration at all then ?
Because to control who comes in, makes one "rabid right" ?

I've seen some silly arguments on here but that takes the cake, the biscuits and the after dinner mints.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I'd also love to know what the hell Chinese immigrants in the UK have to do with the EU.
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In case you didn't know, they came through the EU to get here.
They were trafficked through country after country by organised gangs.

And then they died in Morcambe Bay whilst working for slave wages.
 
Airfix said:
So your answer is not to control immigration at all then ?
Because to control who comes in, makes one "rabid right" ?

I've seen some silly arguments on here but that takes the cake, the biscuits and the after dinner mints.
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Post Brexit, those chinese people you cited would still have entered the UK. Brexit would make no difference.
 
Closing down Schengen and implementing passport checks and checks on vehicles across each border would have had an effect.

Don't you see how the EU has made it easier for criminals ?
 
Airfix said:
So your answer is not to control immigration at all then ?
Because to control who comes in, makes one "rabid right" ?

I've seen some silly arguments on here but that takes the cake, the biscuits and the after dinner mints.
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if your concern is trafficking and refugees then greater controls on immigration make those problems worse not better. You can't even stick to one problem let alone one solution any more. Your scattergun approach to argument is a pain.

The majority of people you voted along with are rabid right when it comes to immigration. Farage, Bojo, Gove, and even May who has capitalised on the opportunity presented by your vote - none of these people want more immigration or more refugees or even give two figs about the people you purport to voted to help. Think about that for a minute and reflect on the actual consequences of the vote rather than your fantasyland.
 
Airfix said:
Closing down Schengen and implementing passport checks and checks on vehicles across each border would have had an effect.

Don't you see how the EU has made it easier for criminals ?
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The UK never had Schengen and had passport checks and these people came straight in undeterred.

For years Schengen operated perfectly well with reducing illegal immigration numbers throughout Europe. What changed was increasing demand caused at least in part by UK governments of both colours conducting ill-thought-out military operations in the Middle East and refusing to do enough to cope with the human consequences.

As with all problems of supply and demand the only long term solutions are to reduce demand (by addressing the problems causing people to need to leave their homes)or to increase supply (by providing legal routes to enter safe countries). Where a gap exists black markets thrive.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The UK never had Schengen and had passport checks and these people came straight in undeterred.
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I understand where you're coming from here. The UK wasn't checking many vehicles at the time and didn't have a dedicated border force either.

For years Schengen operated perfectly well with reducing illegal immigration numbers throughout Europe.
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It appears to have done so by making illegal immigration legal to a certain extent.

What changed was increasing demand caused at least in part by UK governments of both colours conducting ill-thought-out military operations in the Middle East and refusing to do enough to cope with the human consequences.
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For the record, I opposed the invasion of Iraq.

The illegal immigrant who was murdered by organised criminals near my village was Chinese.

As with all problems of supply and demand the only long term solutions are to reduce demand (by addressing the problems causing people to need to leave their homes)or to increase supply (by providing legal routes to enter safe countries). Where a gap exists black markets thrive.
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I quite agree.
I believe we should use international trade as a method of helping poorer countries develop, encourage western companies already using labour in those countries to pay higher wages and offer lower tariffs / zero tariffs to products that aren't made with sweatshop labour.

Cliques of rich countries trading tariff free with each other whilst poorer countries are kept poor is something I take exception to.
 
Airfix said:
I wish it wasn't, but we haven't stopped paying for it yet. :(
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Red herring again. It was your contention that this thread should be on what post Brexit will look like and how it should be handled. Now you are bemoaning the fact that it hasn't happened, while simultaneously demanding to instruct the EU what it should or shouldn't do. Well, tough.

It hasn't happened because the UK government has chosen for it not to happen. Got a problem with that? Then take it up with your own government, not the rest of us.
 
Schengen is the EU's biggest security problem. It affects us whether we're in or out because it reduces the security of our nearest neighbours and there is a mass exodus of illegal immigrants at Calais, some are legit refugees, but not all.

It has endangered the lives of Britons abroad in France.
The massacre of 13th November last year saw Britons shot dead at a rock concert in Paris.
Terrorists had crossed the Schengen zone with guns.

Schengen is faulty. It needs scrapping.
 
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The Don said:
Then it stands to reason that under those circumstances, airliners are not appropriate and instead planes with better short/rough field performance should be used instead. The airfields would be east targets so as well as the expense of a state of the art airfield (and air traffic control) you'll also need state of the art air defences. :rolleyes:

The numbers of people we are talking about however makes none of this feasible and I still don't see how any of this is the EU's fault and how a UK where, post-Brexit, race hate crimes are at a high level will be more welcoming to refugees but of course that's Brexit all over - when examined it makes no logical sense.
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Instead of constructing multi-kilomete concrete runways why not use ships?
 
The Don said:
Even within a country, it's easy for people to disappear. Are you suggesting that we all register daily with the authorities in case the police need to get hold of us ?
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Don't give the Conservatives ideas please...
 
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