Brexit: Now What? Part II

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Airfix said:
Debunked ?
Ok what did the EU do to stop the trafficking ?

http://www.unhcr.org/uk/news/latest...ean-death-toll-soars-first-5-months-2016.html

“Thus far 2016 is proving to be particularly deadly. Some 2,510 lives have been lost so far, compared to 1,855 in the same period in 2015.”

Over 2,510 lives lost so far this year and that's just at sea.

So what did the EU do to reduce deaths at sea ?
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Oh, nothing besides send a lot of naval vessels to the region (including from the UK) which have so far rescued thousands of refugees. But that doesn't count at all, right?
 
Airfix said:
“Thus far 2016 is proving to be particularly deadly. Some 2,510 lives have been lost so far, compared to 1,855 in the same period in 2015.”

Over 2,510 lives lost so far this year and that's just at sea.
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There are more refugees.

Airfix said:
So what did the EU do to reduce deaths at sea ?
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Lots. More patrols from EU states (a friend of mine spent time in the Med picking people out of the water), the EU-Turkey deal, trying to stop traffickers and warm potential victims of the dangers, funding refugee centres et cetera.
 
Catsmate, yes there are more refugees this year, but not facilities in countries neighbouring those affected by war to provide asylum processing and safe passage to safe countries.

More patrols from EU states do not stop traffickers sticking people in dangerously unseaworthy vessels.

Action in the countries affected would. And that is what we should be moving towards. Obviously there's a little bit of that, but not enough.
Currently things are at "breaking point".

There shouldn't be one trafficker vessel crossing the Mediterranean.
All developed countries not torn apart by war need to get together with the UNHCR build camps in Jordan, in Lebanon, in Israel, to process asylum applications and transport safely, refugees to safe countries.
 
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Airfix said:
Whoa, hang on a moment.
He quit the commodities brokering industry and closed down his own business to go into politics to get us out of the EU.

He is honest. You just don't like him.
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Yeah and he was "seating" on the fishery EU meeting group and getting paid for it, while NEVER attending any of those meeting.
 
abaddon said:
Oh, nothing besides send a lot of naval vessels to the region (including from the UK) which have so far rescued thousands of refugees. But that doesn't count at all, right?
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How about starving the traffickers of customers?
This can be done by providing staff including UK government employed staff to the UN for UNHCR camps in all affected countries, liasing with the wider international community to provide refuge.

Have an international UN naval blockade to prevent trafficker vessels from leaving ports, and providing safe passage from UNHCR refugee camps to all developed countries in the world for successful asylum applicants?

Obviously this will cost UK taxpayers and other taxpayers abroad, but it will be worth it if it stops trafficked people dying at sea.
 
Aepervius said:
Yeah and he was "seating" on the fishery EU meeting group and getting paid for it, while NEVER attending any of those meeting.
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He attended some meetings, but also attended hospital due to the spinal injury he's been suffering from for the last few years.
In case you didn't know, he was injured in a plane crash in 2010.

Besides:
When MEPs aren't in Brussels / Strasbourg they cannot claim the Daily subsistence allowance.

EU Parliament pays a flat-rate allowance of €306 per day to cover all other expenses incurred by Members during parliamentary activity periods, on condition that they prove their attendance by signing one of the official registers made available for that purpose.

If a Member does not take part in more than half of the roll-call votes on voting days in plenary the allowance is halved, even if the Member is present.

In the case of meetings organised outside the European Union, the allowance is €153 (likewise subject to the signing of a register), with accommodation expenses being reimbursed separately.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/about-meps.html
 
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Airfix said:
There shouldn't be one trafficker vessel crossing the Mediterranean.
All developed countries not torn apart by war need to get together with the UNHCR build camps in Jordan, in Lebanon, in Israel, to process asylum applications and transport safely, refugees to safe countries.
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Can you seriously believe that Israel is going to build camps, process the asylum applications and transport people fleeing from Syria? You view of world politics is as flawed as your view of the EU. Can you actually list the developed countries between where the refugees come from and the EU.
 
MCel58 said:
Can you seriously believe that Israel is going to build camps, process the asylum applications and transport people fleeing from Syria?
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This might surprise you, but there are nearly 2000 Syrian refugees who have been treated in Israeli hospitals.

So, what's to stop us offering to provide asylum to the Syrian refugees in Israeli hospitals once they are well ?

And what is to stop the UN offering to build policed camps just inside the Israeli border next to Syria, camps which could each contain their own airstrip, camps which can be accessed from Syria but offer no passage into Israel, camps which can provide asylum processing ?

Is it possible that Mr Netanyahu could agree to that, if his country didn't have to pay for it or provide access to the people in those camps ?

Look, I know there's not much chance of it Netanyahu is a terrible person, but if there's any chance at all, it's worth asking. People are dying.
We need to try. Anything's got to be better than allowing 2500 people to drown at sea.
 
Airfix said:
This might surprise you, but there are nearly 2000 Syrian refugees who have been treated in Israeli hospitals.

So, what's to stop us offering to provide asylum to the Syrian refugees in Israeli hospitals once they are well ?

And what is to stop the UN offering to build policed camps just inside the Israeli border next to Syria, camps which could each contain their own airstrip, camps which can be accessed from Syria but offer no passage into Israel, camps which can provide asylum processing ?

Is it possible that Mr Netanyahu could agree to that, if his country didn't have to pay for it or provide access to the people in those camps ?

Look, I know there's not much chance of it Netanyahu is a terrible person, but if there's any chance at all, it's worth asking. People are dying.
We need to try. Anything's got to be better than allowing 2500 people to drown at sea.
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Still don't see how Brexit will help you here. If the UK is interested in this kind of proposal, they can already ask.

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UK could have done more for refugee than what they do now. Germany did a lot. So when you say EU should do more, they do a lot look up the EU refugee programs. And before you complain about the little twig in EU's eye , maybe you should look at the huge ast growing in your own.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/we-had-chance-help-3000-child-refugees-why-did-tories-refuse-1556878

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ake-in-resettle-syrian-refugees-a7125856.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...l-not-be-solved-by-uk-taking-in-more-refugees

etc...etc...
 
Airfix said:
All Brexit does in this respect is send a message of profound disapproval to the Commission (which it needs to learn from).
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It does not. It sent a message to all pollitician : lies enough and loudly and you can have people vote against their own best interrest. That's about it.
 
Airfix said:
I voted to leave the EU, there wasn't an immigration box on the form.
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No, but the people's decision on it for many has that factor in. And it was a major factors of the leaver campaign. And the xenophobes certainly felt empowered by the leave vote seeing the rise in attacks.
 
It's ridiculous for us to pick up boat loads of economic migrants a few miles off the Libyan coast and give them free passage to Europe. That needs to stop ASAP.
 
Airfix said:
Catsmate, yes there are more refugees this year, but not facilities in countries neighbouring those affected by war to provide asylum processing and safe passage to safe countries.

More patrols from EU states do not stop traffickers sticking people in dangerously unseaworthy vessels.

Action in the countries affected would. And that is what we should be moving towards. Obviously there's a little bit of that, but not enough.
Currently things are at "breaking point".

There shouldn't be one trafficker vessel crossing the Mediterranean.
All developed countries not torn apart by war need to get together with the UNHCR build camps in Jordan, in Lebanon, in Israel, to process asylum applications and transport safely, refugees to safe countries.
Click to expand...


What happens if the countries named don't want European processing camps on their territory?
How would more patrols stop traffickers putting people in boats? Are you advocating a military intervention in the countrues involved? Land forces in Libya? Navsl Forces in other countries territorial waters?
Who should provide the forces to do it?
 
Strange how being an EU member stops UK exports and holds back UK industry and manufacturing but doesn't seem to cause the same problems for other EU countries operating under exactly the same rules and regulations.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
What happens if the countries named don't want European processing camps on their territory?
How would more patrols stop traffickers putting people in boats? Are you advocating a military intervention in the countrues involved? Land forces in Libya? Navsl Forces in other countries territorial waters?
Who should provide the forces to do it?
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Exactly. The very suggestion was absurd. A lot of Turkish traffickers (and the police and other officials who are paid handsomely to turn a blind eye) would be ******* furious if EU countries even suggested stepping in on Turkish soil. If refugees make it that far Turkey wants them *out*.

Intercepting would-be refugees in Syria and countries bordering Libya is an equally ridiculous concept.
 
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