The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017

[halleyscomet]

Rubbish
Now you what to look for and where

It's not my job to do your homework. If your hypothesis is correct, even the bald faced lies about how the GPS system is administered, then the proof will be in the logs of adjustments made to the the orbits and clocks of the GPS satellites. You claim the math is so simple even a kindergartner can do it. Request the raw data and get cracking.

Even if your Dark Flow fantasy is accurate, you'll still need to do the exact same work on the ISS and Galileo 5 & 6 data to prove it. The GPS data is already available, and covers YEARS of orbital activity isntead of just one experiment.

There are even companies you can hire to help you get the raw data and process it. For example: http://www.spatial-ed.com/about-us.html

Need money for the project? Write a grant proposal:
http://grantspace.org/tools/knowledge-base/Funding-Research/proposal-writing/grant-proposals

Look at that. You could get a quote from a company to process the data and write up a modest grant proposal to cover the cost of the work. I'm sure if you phrase your grant proposal right and check your robust ego at the door, you can get more than enough money to make this happen.

Unless of course you know your hypothesis is bunk and you're just trolling us.

 

[abaddon]

Are you sure it is not something you have dream ?

Yup. I posted it for you and you ignored it.

No, I am not going to do it again because you will ignore it again. You didn't read it the first time so why should I expect you will read it this time?

 

[halleyscomet]

Are you sure it is not something you have dream ?

Yup. I posted it for you and you ignored it.

No, I am not going to do it again because you will ignore it again. You didn't read it the first time so why should I expect you will read it this time?

The scope and extent of his overt denial is both sad and breathtaking.

 

[dasmiller]

Between each time dilation synchronize the GPS ephemeris is always "wrong", due to many different impact you never can forecast

Furthermore the orbit / position is not calculated but measured, it is faster, more precise and no risk for errors.

Why do you think this?

I already wrote why, read above...

No, why do you think GPS operates in that manner? Have you read through the description of the GPS Control Segment, seen a TV show about the GPS conops, what? Or did you simply make it up?

I've spent a lot of years inside the GPS program, and your statements about how GPS is operated are wildly different from my experience. I think you're just making things up to support your position (and it's hard to find a more non-scientific approach than that) but I'm granting the possibility that I'm misunderstanding you, or you've been given false information.

But "the orbit / position is not calculated but measured" is completely wrong. The ephemeris broadcast by a GPS spacecraft was typically uploaded many hours earlier, so it's broadcasting an orbit that was predicted many hours earlier.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Right, but still you can't be sure that the measured position is the same as the calculated.
I mean so long no test calculation is done

Explain yourself. The above makes no sense.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

4. Believe that relativity is not tested every day and by every satellite launch, - a.) the staff have more important things to do. b.) GPS is not a scientific test system, also not even if it easy could have been so.

GPS is a very important, hugely expensive system, which can be expected to be in operation for several decades to come. It requires the launching of several very expensive satellites every year. Do you really really think they are not working hard to make it more efficient?

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Oh, and anyway, GPS is just one thing that would not work if Bjarne's idea was right. Bjarne claims that there is a universal movement frame. This would mean that ANY wireless signal would be frequency-shifted depending on time od day, time of year.

... Which is obviously not what we observe.

This is not just the Michelson-Morley experiment. It is every radio transmission everywhere on Earth, all the time.

Hans

 

[Reality Check]

Bjarne: Lying about "obviously sick and pathetic" does not make delusions correct

A secondary reason is the largest part of our paradigm is obviously sick and pathetic.

14 September 2016 Bjarne: Lying about "obviously sick and pathetic" does not make delusions correct.

14 September 2016 Bjarne: An "obviously sick and pathetic" rant does not make delusions correct.

Digging yourself deeper into a pit of delusions and lies is bad.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: Black holes are black because we detect no light in any part of the spectrum from them. That includes a delusion of red shifted light from imaginary stretched space !
14 September 2016 Bjarne: You are still deluded abut the "perihelion precision anomaly". The perihelion precession of Mercury is not a decrease of the orbit radius.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A delusion that the Lorentz equation is a consequence of "stretching space "
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A delusion that the dubious Allais Effect is a verified effect.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A delusion about galaxies collapsing.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A delusion about the collapse of protoplanetary disks being explained by a RR/dark flow delusion.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A delusion that hot Jupiters are not explained by mainstream physics + they can be explained by a RR/dark flow delusion.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A lie of "Collapse of any orbit should not happen according to prevailing physics", e.g. GR predicts this.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A delusion that stars cannot be kept in orbit in galaxies by gravity !
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A lie about the strange “impossible” orbits of Sedna etc.
14 September 2016 Bjarne: A "Solar system will also periodically collapse" delusion - the Earth has been in the same orbit all of the lifetime of the Solar System.

 

[Reality Check]

The RR fantasy appearing on 15 October 2009 here, continued ignorance of high school level science and digging a pit of fantasies from Bjarne (167 items of ignorance, fantasy, delusion and lies in this thread alone!).

1. 8 September 2016 Bjarne: His abysmally ignorant delusion that the Mercury perihelion precession anomaly was the perihelion being shorter than expected .
2. 9 September 2016 Bjarne: Does not care that Dowdye is lying twice to him in one image !
3. 9 September 2016 Bjarne: Does not understand what a NASA astrophysicist is!
4. 9 September 2016 Bjarne: Lies (quote mines) about his Edward Henry Dowdye source which explicitly states his "research" is not connected to his work at NASA.
5. 9 September 2016 Bjarne: The idiocy of Dowdye publishing "science" at close to a crank web site.
6. 9 September 2016 Bjarne: A paranoiac fantasy that "glaring anomalies" (i.e. caused by a RR/dark flow delusion) are being hidden by GPS systems.
7. 9 September 2016 Bjarne: Your "BW" does not invalidate scientific evidence for the composition of the universe.
8. 9 September 2016 Bjarne: A "GPS have anomalies, well known anomalies, and almost the whole world know about these" lie (no citations, there are known corrections, e.g. for SR and GR).
9. 12 September 2016 Bjarne: The stupidity that his delusions only apply to new polar GPS satellites!
10. 12 September 2016 Bjarne: A PDF about satellite anomalies being noticed and actioned which is nothing to do with his "Have you hear about the many time dilation synchronization every day"
11. 12 September 2016 Bjarne: Reveals ignorance about a PDF that he linked to !
12. 12 September 2016 Bjarne: The clocks in Global Positioning System satellites are not continuously re-synchronized from Earth
13. 12 September 2016 Bjarne: Spamming a thread with a fantasy does not make it less deluded - a possible dark flow millions or billions of light years away will have no effects here.
14. 12 September 2016 Bjarne: GPS satellites are in stable orbits well above the Earth's atmosphere.
15. 13 September 2016 Bjarne: The delusional belief that relativity is not tested every day - GPS works on billions of devices!
16. 14 September 2016 Bjarne: Lying about "obviously sick and pathetic" does not make delusions correct.
17. 14 September 2016 Bjarne: An "obviously sick and pathetic" rant does not make delusions correct.
18. 14 September 2016 Bjarne: Digging yourself deeper into a pit of delusions and lies with 11 delusions and lies is bad.

 

[Bjarne]

It's not my job to do your homework. .

You don't understand , it have NOTHING with my homework to do

The only way to know is by space probe and satellite test of relativity..

• Relativity test at the ISS will clearly demonstrate SR will fall apart
• Relativity test for Galileo 5 and 6 will show unexpected perigee acceleration, and bring down GR

 

[Bjarne]

Oh, and anyway, GPS is just one thing that would not work if Bjarne's idea was right. Bjarne claims that there is a universal movement frame. This would mean that ANY wireless signal would be frequency-shifted depending on time od day, time of year.

... Which is obviously not what we observe.

This is not just the Michelson-Morley experiment. It is every radio transmission everywhere on Earth, all the time.

Hans

You don't understand a simple basic thing that is....
I am NOT speaking about absolute speed, but absolute motion..
There is a huge difference
Absolute motion will cause proportional reality deformation, this is how gained or loss of energy is converted.

So speed added or subtracted to an object, - will only accumulate as reality deformation. Nothing else.
Different observers will measure different speed.

Therefore any object moving with addition true motion, will relative to you on the Earth appear to emit redshifted EMW, the same is the case with emitted EMW from deeper gravity position.

If true motion is reduced, relativistic mass will be lost as gravitational waves, but a stone falling down from to earth, will instead convert relativistic mass the thermal energy.

This mean that the ISS is converting some of its relativistic mass to gravitational waves each time it moves north (except when perturbation should prevent it)
Now when you will send an object straight north relative to ecliptic, that object will appears to emit blue shifted EMW, and so will an object sending EMW back to you from higher gravity position.

 

[Bjarne]

Explain yourself. The above makes no sense.

Hans

I mean there are many thing that effects a (polar) satellites, for example rotating gravitational anomalies of the crust of the Earth, the tide, space weather impacting from different angles, perturbation from the Moon, Sun etc, - the Earth is not completely round, and a lot more..

To calculate an orbit is almost an impossible beast to tame.
But you can very easy measure the position of a satellite all the way round the Earth and based on that draw a real time orbit.

So why use time on measurement so long we both know GPS not is a Relativity testing system, but a practical navigation system..

If you would do all these calculation and really test theory up against measurement all the time, you will in the end of the day confirm that motion only can be correct understood in an absolute frame.

 

[Bjarne]

No, why do you think GPS operates in that manner? Have you read through the description of the GPS Control Segment, seen a TV show about the GPS conops, what? Or did you simply make it up?

I've spent a lot of years inside the GPS program, and your statements about how GPS is operated are wildly different from my experience. I think you're just making things up to support your position (and it's hard to find a more non-scientific approach than that) but I'm granting the possibility that I'm misunderstanding you, or you've been given false information.

But "the orbit / position is not calculated but measured" is completely wrong. The ephemeris broadcast by a GPS spacecraft was typically uploaded many hours earlier, so it's broadcasting an orbit that was predicted many hours earlier.

One thing is a desired orbit, - something else is what you end up to get..
For example take a look of Galileo 5 and 6.

It’s not a secret that there are many navigation errors.
Some of these is caused by that we not all the time know what we are up against.

If you will set a polar satellite into orbit, you can easy calculate that something is wrong, a polar satellite can easy (theoretical) appear to be more elliptical as you wanted it to be, - but only *if* you is tested the orbit based on theoretical data.

If you only trust the theoretical data and try to correct that “error” – the real orbit will be worse, - until you have burned all your fuel, and only making the theoretical problem to a real problem.

I wonder if the GPS team already have few such experiences before.. And whether these are between unknown anomalies. But this is fare from sure..

I don't thinks so because as I said, - if anything critical happens it will all be boiled down to daily routine, the staff will use the measured data, its much faster and based on experience properly also the safest to deal with. Only an old-fashioned nerd will begin to calculate and solve a problem like for 100 years ago

 

[BazBear]

One thing is a desired orbit, - something else is what you end up to get..
For example take a look of Galileo 5 and 6.

It’s not a secret that there are many navigation errors.
Some of these is caused by that we not all the time know what we are up against.

If you will set a polar satellite into orbit, you can easy calculate that something is wrong, a polar satellite can easy (theoretical) appear to be more elliptical as you wanted it to be, - but only *if* you is tested the orbit based on theoretical data.

If you only trust the theoretical data and try to correct that “error” – the real orbit will be worse, - until you have burned all your fuel, and only making the theoretical problem to a real problem.

I wonder if the GPS team already have few such experiences before.. And whether these are between unknown anomalies. But this is fare from sure..

I don't thinks so because as I said, - if anything critical happens it will all be boiled down to daily routine, the staff will use the measured data, its much faster and based on experience properly also the safest to deal with. Only an old-fashioned nerd will begin to calculate and solve a problem like for 100 years ago

Baloney.

 

[halleyscomet]

You don't understand , it have NOTHING with my homework to do

The only way to know is by space probe and satellite test of relativity..

• Relativity test at the ISS will clearly demonstrate SR will fall apart
• Relativity test for Galileo 5 and 6 will show unexpected perigee acceleration, and bring down GR

You're getting awfully angry at people for reminding you to do your homework. Did you slack like this in school too?

The orbital and time dilation variances you expect from those experiments would be seen in GPS and other satellites. No such variances exist. You have to lie about how satellites are used and monitored in order to whitewash away the fact that your hypothesis is wrong.

It's no wonder you rely so heavily upon kindergarten in your analogies. In any grade beyond that, a child who refused to do their homework as stringently as you would get detention.

 

[MRC_Hans]

You don't understand , it have NOTHING with my homework to do

The only way to know is by space probe and satellite test of relativity..

• Relativity test at the ISS will clearly demonstrate SR will fall apart
• Relativity test for Galileo 5 and 6 will show unexpected perigee acceleration, and bring down GR

I suggest you start thinking about your explanation when this doesn't happen.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

You don't understand a simple basic thing that is....
I am NOT speaking about absolute speed, but absolute motion..
There is a huge difference
Absolute motion will cause proportional reality deformation, this is how gained or loss of energy is converted.

There is not a huge difference, motion and speed are two sides of the same coin.

So speed added or subtracted to an object, - will only accumulate as reality deformation. Nothing else.
Different observers will measure different speed.

No. It will accumulate as kinetic energy and this will cause reality deformation. However, if different observers measure different speed, then you do NOT have a universal frame. Then you have relativity.

Therefore any object moving with addition true motion, will relative to you on the Earth appear to emit redshifted EMW, the same is the case with emitted EMW from deeper gravity position.

Obviously depends on the direction. What does "addition true motion" mean?

If true motion is reduced, relativistic mass will be lost as gravitational waves, but a stone falling down from to earth, will instead convert relativistic mass the thermal energy.

What do you mean by "true motion"?

This mean that the ISS is converting some of its relativistic mass to gravitational waves each time it moves north (except when perturbation should prevent it)

It is not converting relativistic mass to anything. An object in orbit will (unless the orbit is a perfect circle, but it never is) decelerate at times, converting some of its kinetic energy to potential energy. At other times it will accelerate, converting potential energy into kinetic energy. Of course this will include shifts in its relativistic mass, according to its speed. This has nothing to do with the inclination of its orbit.

Now when you will send an object straight north relative to ecliptic, that object will appears to emit blue shifted EMW,

No. Since it is then receding from me, it will be red-shifted.

and so will an object sending EMW back to you from higher gravity position.

Yes, that is correct, as described in GR.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

I mean there are many thing that effects a (polar) satellites, for example rotating gravitational anomalies of the crust of the Earth, the tide, space weather impacting from different angles, perturbation from the Moon, Sun etc, - the Earth is not completely round, and a lot more..

Well, those are the realities of space operation.

To calculate an orbit is almost an impossible beast to tame.

Not at all. The professionals are very good at it.

But you can very easy measure the position of a satellite all the way round the Earth and based on that draw a real time orbit.

So why use time on measurement so long we both know GPS not is a Relativity testing system, but a practical navigation system..

No, it wouldn't work. In that way you can only find out where the satellite was, for GPS to work, you need to know where it IS, right now in this nanosecond. There isn't even time for a radar signal to go out and return, much less for a correction to be transmitted.

If you would do all these calculation and really test theory up against measurement all the time, you will in the end of the day confirm that motion only can be correct understood in an absolute frame.

No. It is being calculated and it works according to GR/SR. Sorry.

Your absolute motion frame is a fantasy.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

One thing is a desired orbit, - something else is what you end up to get..
For example take a look of Galileo 5 and 6.

It’s not a secret that there are many navigation errors.
Some of these is caused by that we not all the time know what we are up against.

If you will set a polar satellite into orbit, you can easy calculate that something is wrong, a polar satellite can easy (theoretical) appear to be more elliptical as you wanted it to be, - but only *if* you is tested the orbit based on theoretical data.

If you only trust the theoretical data and try to correct that “error” – the real orbit will be worse, - until you have burned all your fuel, and only making the theoretical problem to a real problem.

I wonder if the GPS team already have few such experiences before.. And whether these are between unknown anomalies. But this is fare from sure..

I don't thinks so because as I said, - if anything critical happens it will all be boiled down to daily routine, the staff will use the measured data, its much faster and based on experience properly also the safest to deal with. Only an old-fashioned nerd will begin to calculate and solve a problem like for 100 years ago

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are just making up stuff to try to cover up for your troubles.

It is pathetic, Bjarne. Pathetic.

Hans

 

[Bjarne]

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are just making up stuff to try to cover up for your troubles.

It is pathetic, Bjarne. Pathetic.

Hans

I learned it all in the kindergarten.

1. Measure the orbit, and plug in these data
2. Synchronize the clock

Really nothing serious more to worry about, now the GPS works (for a while) until it is necessary to synchronize the clock again and measure the orbit again..