Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[logger]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this. And, what they like, I despise. I far more respect people that engage their brain before their mouth.That treat others with respect and dignity. It's embarrassing to me that this caricature as opposed to a serious human being is the Republican nominee.

You cannot be serious!
Do you really think you do this?

 

[acbytesla]

Now you want him to release years not under audit?

How would the left react then?

Every post from the left just shoots from the hip.

Let me put it like this. It is clear from the mass confusion the left has shown is this thread, Trump once again seems to be right where he needs to be.

Why shouldn't he? Hillary has released her taxes for more than 20 years. What is good for the gander is good for the goose.

 

[logger]

That thought is too scary for me: that people want Trump to run the country like his business :

- Get into massive debt
- Make threats but never follow up on them
- be happy for other countries to make all the great stuff as long as he gets to put "made in the USA" on it

Are you sure you're talking about Trump and not the current president.

 

[logger]

Why shouldn't he?

Haven't we been over this?

 

[acbytesla]

You cannot be serious!
Do you really think you do this?

I AM ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS. Trump has proven himself to be disgusting and crass and who cares only about himself. He has publicly referred to women as pigs, bitches, slobs and that they should be treated like ****. He mocked a reporters disability, He raped his wife Ivana. He resorts to childish name calling. I doubt I can recall a more reprehensible candidate. I wouldn't hire that Orange clown to clean my toilet let alone lead the nation.

 

[acbytesla]

Haven't we been over this?

That's right, we have. And as long as Trump boasts about his business acumen without providing credible proof of it, we're going to keep beating that drum. And maybe a few people who have ears (not you) will take heed and vote for anybody but Trump...preferably Hillary.

 

[Minoosh]

I would say he's waiting to see what they find. If they find something(s) he'll settle up with them, then release. It's much better politically to have these issues with the IRS settled before going public with it. This audit was perfect timing for him.

ABC asked him to produce a letter confirming he was under audit. Not sure what came of that. Anyway, why would it be "much better" politically?

 

[Bob001]

Why shouldn't he? Hillary has released her taxes for more than 20 years. What is good for the gander is good for the goose.

Beyond that, every presidential candidate since 1972 has released his tax returns, including Pres. Nixon at a time when he was under audit. It is an extraordinary departure from established American practice for Trump to refuse to do so, especially when he himself rebuked Mitt Romney for delaying the release of his returns in 2012. Numerous Republican leaders -- including his buddy Roger Stone and his own VP candidate -- and a majority of Republican voters want to see Trump's returns.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/roger-stone-trump-tax-returns_us_57bb4ccee4b0b51733a50396
http://www.salon.com/2016/08/25/top...s-on-donald-trump-to-release-his-tax-returns/
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/poll-should-trump-release-tax-returns-227408

Numerous tax experts, including former IRS commissioners, have stated that there's no reason why Trump couldn't or shouldn't release his returns. After all, they are his own best account of his own situation. An audit might find that some deductions and expenses would be disallowed, and he'd wind up with a tax bill, but the underlying declarations about income and its sources, loans and their sources, real estate taxes paid, charitable deductions etc. wouldn't change. And of course, his older tax returns are not under audit. He can't use that excuse for concealing them. The only reasonable explanation for Trump's secrecy is that the truth about his possible income, his taxes paid, his loans from Russian oligarchs, etc. is worse than the worst we can imagine. And most voters know it.
https://thinkprogress.org/the-big-lie-about-donald-trumps-tax-returns-585aa23bf529#.7ufavpia4
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-07-29/why-wont-donald-trump-release-his-tax-returns
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-money-net-worth-223662
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/donald-trump-debt.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...a2f63c-1b7c-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-donald-trump-isnt-releasing-his-tax-returns/

Of course, if Trump released false returns, neither the IRS nor anybody else would be able to call him out.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/trump-will-release-fake-t_b_11861330.html

 

[Minoosh]

Assets are a matter of public record

You sure about that? Some jurisdictions allow assets to be concealed completely. Also in some jurisdictions assets are not a public record. It's one reason people use Swiss banks, Cayman Islands institutions etc.

and do have a taxable value that is also public record. It's all a guess that usually lands on the low end of what a person is worth.

Unless Trump is doing the guessing.

 

[Bob001]

ABC asked him to produce a letter confirming he was under audit. Not sure what came of that. Anyway, why would it be "much better" politically?

His lawyers claim he's under audit. They haven't released any letter from the IRS. And of course the IRS can't say a word.
http://www.newsweek.com/where-trump-irs-tax-audit-letter-488904

 

[Minoosh]

It would be politically stupid for him to release now. People that support him couldn't care less.

Right, they wouldn't care if he shot someone in the face. However some are undecided.

 

[acbytesla]

You sure about that? Some jurisdictions allow assets to be concealed completely. Also in some jurisdictions assets are not a public record. It's one reason people use Swiss banks, Cayman Islands institutions etc.

and do have a taxable value that is also public record. It's all a guess that usually lands on the low end of what a person is worth.

Unless Trump is doing the guessing.

There are so many ways to hide both assets and debt as there are stars in the sky. (poetic license...but hey, if Trump can exaggerate, so can I)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Trump Tweet deaf to his sexism: “Donald Trump put out a tweet that said she doesn’t look presidential, does she fellas?

 

[Stacko]

Trump Tweet deaf to his sexism: “Donald Trump put out a tweet that said she doesn’t look presidential, does she fellas?

Rough day for the campaign all around on women's rights. Ivanka Trump: ‘No Way’ My Father Is Sexist, Because He Hired Me. Most people don't resort to nepotism as a defense against charges of sexism.

 

[acbytesla]

Hey, the Trumpster just said he would show up for all three debates. So nice of him. Wonder if he'll back out like he did with his taxes.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Rough day for the campaign all around on women's rights. Ivanka Trump: ‘No Way’ My Father Is Sexist, Because He Hired Me. Most people don't resort to nepotism as a defense against charges of sexism.

The other issue here is the false dichotomy that if you hire women, even for top management jobs that you automatically can't also be sexist. It's like saying you can't be racist because you have a couple black friends.

Trump clearly sees women as sex objects first and foremost and the sexism is blatant.

 

[Ladewig]

Now you want him to release years not under audit?

How would the left react then?

OK, you want to play a game. Let's play.
The lefties would cry like little girls and call Trump names.

Now that that is out of the way let's talk about how independents would react to releasing a previous year's tax return.

I suspect they would say several things. Among them:

1) if the rich already pay little or no tax, why do we need to cut their income tax rate?
2) Trump said he gave money to charity but nothing is claimed here. Why?
3) his income before deductions, write-offs, and other sleight of hand seems pretty small for a billionaire.
4) Wow, this guy has lots of debts.
[i invite other posters to add to the list]

Every post from the left just shoots from the hip.

You like using that term in these threads. I think you are using it incorrectly. If the left-leaning posters asked for something without thinking about the ramifications, then yes, we would be shooting from the hip.

But we are not asking for something without thinking of the ramifications. Before this thread even started, most of us had already suggested that the fair and proper thing to do is to release 2015 as well as previous years.

Just because you and your candidate don't like the ramifications of what we asked for does not mean we haven't thought of those ramifications.

Let me put it like this. It is clear from the mass confusion the left has shown is this thread,

Except there was none. Asking a candidate to do something even though the laws and regulations do not demand it is not confusion.

Trump once again seems to be right where he needs to be.

I agree. From Trump's perspective, he is right where he needs to be. And that place is hiding his tax returns. If he never releases them he has a chance of winning. If he does release them, then he may forfeit the election.

The very foundation of Trump's campaign is "I am a financial genius, therefore, you should make me president." Asking for evidence of this rare and precious ability is exceptionally appropriate. The tax returns would be very valid evidence. An independent audit of his holdings would be a satisfactory alternative.

The entire issue can be summed up this way. Everyone has a list of qualities that a candidate should have. That list might contain things like knowledge of world affairs, empathy when the nation is grieving, respect for God, willingness to work across the aisle, a penis. We on the left believe being open about one's tax records is one of those things. The folks on the right do not place much evidence on that item. Well, more precisely, the right doesn't pay much attention when it is its own candidate that lacks that quality. If Trump released and Clinton didn't, I assert that bedlam would ensue.

There is a fair way and an unfair way to approach these types of issues. The unfair way involves being OK with one's own side doing something, but not OK with the opposition doing the exact same thing. Once one goes down that path little progress can be made in threads like this one. And to be fair, both sides do it. We don't really need to get into who does it more.

One simple question:
Logger, if Trump had released his returns and Clinton refused to release hers, would you would honestly and truely have the same nonchalant attitude about her returns as you do about Trump's? If the answer is yes, then I give you great respect. I would even give you my avatar for a month as a sign of respect. Unfortunately, I do not own my avatar anymore.

 

[Tero]

I agree. From Trump's perspective, he is right where he needs to be. And that place is hiding his tax returns. If he never releases them he has a chance of winning. If he does release them, then he may forfeit the election.

Trump has no chance of winning the election. There are some pet causes and races in states and the Republican establishment to deal with, during this cycle. Not the presidency.

 

[Ladewig]

That thought is too scary for me: that people want Trump to run the country like his business :

- Get into massive debt
- Make threats but never follow up on them
- be happy for other countries to make all the great stuff as long as he gets to put "made in the USA" on it

No. I would put it this way

-borrow a bunch of money
-construct an foolishly overly-optimistic business plan
-wait until the problems are too big to ignore
-line his pockets and jump ship by declaring bankruptcy.
-offer pennies on the dollar to the people who lent him money.

He has already enquired about the possibility of defaulting on government notes.

 

[Ladewig]

Trump has no chance of winning the election. There are some pet causes and races in states and the Republican establishment to deal with, during this cycle. Not the presidency.

[stage whisper]I know. I phrased it that way just to be polite to Logger.[/stage whisper]