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Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part IV

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Yeah seriously, you still refuse to acknowledge the good meeting he had. It's because you don't understand politics.

Logger,

You and I have a different definition of a good meeting. Where one calls the other a liar within 24 hours is not my idea of a good meeting.

Also, It was a PHOTO-OP. Nothing more.

Don't you get it? Both of them were using each other. The President of Mexico poll numbers are in the toilet. He wanted to look tough by standing up to Trump who is reviled in Mexico. Trump did it to look somewhat Presidential.
 
Again, you don't understand politics. First his visit was to benefit his presidential campaign, which every political junkie seems to acknowledge that is was a success.

Second, the president of Mexico will continue to meet with President Trump because it is in his best interest. Guess why?

Which political junkies are you talking about? Frankly, I've hear opinions both ways. Be specific. Offer citations, if you can.
 
It's weird that one person controls the checkbook for both organizations as there excuse for the error occurring states. Failing to segregate duties and put in place controls to stop mistakes like this are mistakes small organizations make not an alleged multibillion dollar empire.



This hasn't been proven yet but it does explain how a go nowhere AG got a speaking gig at the RNC. "Raise my profile or we both go down!"

The recent SCOTUS ruling all but makes it impossible to convict these guys of bribery. Trump donated money and the same investigation went away that did not go away in NY or CA.

Conclude what you will.
 
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There's a principal problem with voting by mail. Voting is supposed to be free and secret. With mail-in votes, you don't know if someone held the voter (literally or figuratively) a gun to their head while filling the ballot. At a polling place the "free and secret" part is assured through the oversight of the pollsters.


That's an interesting observation. Three states -- Oregon, Washington and Colorado -- conduct all elections entirely by mail, and almost every state allows absentee voting by mail. Is there any evidence that anybody's been coerced or bribed to vote a particular way while someone else watched? I could maybe imagine a spouse handing his/her ballot to the other and saying "I hate'em all. You deal with it." But if there was even a suspicion that anybody was being forced, I think we'd hear about it.

The issues you mention with polling places are really constructed problems. Long lines? Open more polling places or make more polling booths available at the existing ones. My city of 150,000 inh. has ca. 100 polling places. Inconvenient hours? Open them longer. Here, polling places are open from 7AM to 9PM. Hackable voting machines? Abolish them or demand thorough certification (on the level that the software is provably correct :rolleyes:). ID-laws? I'd think that by now there would be clear guidelines on what is acceptable in that area and what not.


All kinds of schemes are widely discussed. Many states have early voting at polling places in addition to the official Tuesday election. And of course, you can vote by absentee ballot almost everywhere. A frequent proposal is to hold elections on a weekend day instead of a work day, or hold polls open for 24 hours straight. There are always at least two concerns. One is the additional cost. The other is that the party in power doesn't want to make it easier for the other side to benefit. You'll find polling places closed or moved at the last minute in minority neighborhoods, fewer voting machines, sudden temporary parking restrictions, etc.

You have to understand that the U.S. doesn't hold national elections. All elections, even for the only two national offices, are conducted by states, cities, counties and towns. State and local officials make the rules, hire the staff, assign polling places, buy the equipment, etc. There is no national authority that can tell everybody "do it this way." That's why voter ID laws, to take one example, are being proposed and fought state-by-state.
 
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That's an interesting observation. Three states -- Oregon, Washington and Colorado -- conduct all elections entirely by mail, and almost every state allows absentee voting by mail. Is there any evidence that anybody's been coerced or bribed to vote a particular way while someone else watched? I could maybe imagine a spouse handing his/her ballot to the other and saying "I hate'em all. You deal with it." But if there was even a suspicion that anybody was being forced, I think we'd hear about it.




All kinds of schemes are widely discussed. Many states have early voting at polling places in addition to the official Tuesday election. And of course, you can vote by absentee ballot almost everywhere. A frequent proposal is to hold elections on a weekend day instead of a work day, or hold polls open for 24 hours straight. There are always at least two concerns. One is the additional cost. The other is that the party in power doesn't want to make it easier for the other side to benefit. You'll find polling places closed or moved at the last minute in minority neighborhoods, fewer voting machines, sudden temporary parking restrictions, etc.

You have to understand that the U.S. doesn't hold national elections. All elections, even for the only two national offices, are conducted by states, cities, counties and towns. State and local officials make the rules, hire the staff, assign polling places, buy the equipment, etc. There is no national authority that can tell everybody "do it this way." That's why voter ID laws, to take one example, are being proposed and fought state-by-state.
Microchips.

You know it makes sense

[emoji106]
 
That's an interesting observation. Three states -- Oregon, Washington and Colorado -- conduct all elections entirely by mail, and almost every state allows absentee voting by mail. Is there any evidence that anybody's been coerced or bribed to vote a particular way while someone else watched? I could maybe imagine a spouse handing his/her ballot to the other and saying "I hate'em all. You deal with it." But if there was even a suspicion that anybody was being forced, I think we'd hear about it.
I don't know if there's ever been a problem with it. I'm surprised the issue hasn't come up yet, at least not in discussions on this forum. The "holding a gun to one's head" can be also in the form of trickery: e.g., a party activist going through the dining room of a retirement home and telling the people there they'll help them fill out the ballot form. That party activist could also be the resident nurse BTW.

I mentioned it because it is the principal reason my country doesn't do postal voting (*), and it's a problem that cannot be fundamentally solved. You don't know what happens in millions of people's homes. Likewise, for absentee voting, my country allows you to authorize someone else to proxy vote for you - and in order to prohibit party activists going around collecting proxy votes, the number of proxy votes someone can cast is limited to two. Most outcry I've ever heard in my country over alleged voter fraud is about polling workers or personal assistants or the like going into the polling booth with the (disabled) voter to help them out.

(*) Except for those living abroad - there's no other alternative there that I could think of. The nearest embassy or consulate is usually a bit too far away.

I've once done a postal vote, when I lived abroad, and once let someone proxy-vote for me - a friend whom I knew to be a party activist so I could trust him to cast the vote for the party I wanted to. :)

I'm not trying to claim that my country is best or something, just putting forth the arguments pro and con to get a deeper understanding what does and does not work. No voting system is absolutely perfect.

A bit of trivia I learned from wiki: France abolished postal voting in the 1970s because most postal workers were communist sympathizers.

All kinds of schemes are widely discussed. Many states have early voting at polling places in addition to the official Tuesday election. And of course, you can vote by absentee ballot almost everywhere. A frequent proposal is to hold elections on a weekend day instead of a work day, or hold polls open for 24 hours straight.
Sunday is indeed the most popular election day around the world. My country does not, because the 2% or so orthodox protestants would have a real problem with that. I can see that being a problem in the USA as well. Longer opening hours seems to me a no-brainer, especially as the USA has a lot of people working two jobs.

There are always at least two concerns. One is the additional cost.
That's really a non-concern. You decided to be a democratic country with universal suffrage, then give people a reasonable option to exercise that right. Cost shouldn't come into it. It's the cost inherent in the system.
The other is that the party in power doesn't want to make it easier for the other side to benefit. You'll find polling places closed or moved at the last minute in minority neighborhoods, fewer voting machines, sudden temporary parking restrictions, etc.
Most countries actually have non-partisan election commissions which oversee elections. And really, polling places moved or closed? When I get my voting card in the mail, approx. 4 weeks before the actual elections, it contains a complete list of all the polling places in my municipality. No messing with that afterwards.

You have to understand that the U.S. doesn't hold national elections. All elections, even for the only two national offices, are conducted by states, cities, counties and towns. State and local officials make the rules, hire the staff, assign polling places, buy the equipment, etc. There is no national authority that can tell everybody "do it this way." That's why voter ID laws, to take one example, are being proposed and fought state-by-state.
I understand that it's organized by state. A couple of comments on that.

First, when you say "two national offices", you mean Prez and Veep? I think of that as one vote, as it's a ticket you vote for with one vote. Additionally, the Rep and Senator you elect are also national offices IMHO, so come November, 1/3 of the Americans cast 2 national votes and 2/3 cast 3 national votes.

Second, I'd really hope that judges would take a very dim view of all such shenanigans with laws that aim to restrict voting. I get it that state legislatures make a game of "whack a mole" out of it, by introducing every 2 or 4 years a slightly different law, but set a straight example and take away eligibility from the legislators who passed the law - that'll teach them not to mess with voting. (I really don't know if that's possible but it would be the appropriate reaction IMHO).

Third, I'd think that the federal government has a legitimate interest in how the states organize the elections for President/VP and Congress - after all, those elected serve the federal government. Has it ever been tried to pass a federal law setting out minimum standards for the states to organize their elections?

Fourth, I'd think a federal judge would recognize that interest too and take a deep look at the newly minted law challenged. Moreover, federal judges then often give detailed instructions on what's exactly wrong with the law. Once you climb up the federal court ladder, say you're in 9th Circuit Court, you have a decision that's binding on a dozen states.

Fifth, I'd think that number of polling places would also be a federal concern. Those aerial shots that CNN has of polling places with a miles-long queue outside it make the USA the laughing butt of the first world when it comes to elections. No, "national pride" is nowhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights but a creative judge can read it somewhere between the lines. :)
 
Let's just switch to the Estonian ID card and internet voting system - by Nov. 8th 2016.
What could possibly go wrong?
 
.....
I understand that it's organized by state. A couple of comments on that.

First, when you say "two national offices", you mean Prez and Veep? I think of that as one vote, as it's a ticket you vote for with one vote. Additionally, the Rep and Senator you elect are also national offices IMHO, so come November, 1/3 of the Americans cast 2 national votes and 2/3 cast 3 national votes.


The President and Vice President are two offices filled by two people running together on one ticket. They are the only national -- in the sense that they serve everyone in the nation -- officials that we elect. Senators and representatives serve in the national legislature, but they only represent their states or their districts, and only citizens of those states or districts vote for them. Originally the Constitution provided that Senators wouldn't even be elected directly by voters, but by the state legislatures, and that wasn't changed until 1912.

Second, I'd really hope that judges would take a very dim view of all such shenanigans with laws that aim to restrict voting. I get it that state legislatures make a game of "whack a mole" out of it, by introducing every 2 or 4 years a slightly different law, but set a straight example and take away eligibility from the legislators who passed the law - that'll teach them not to mess with voting. (I really don't know if that's possible but it would be the appropriate reaction IMHO).

Third, I'd think that the federal government has a legitimate interest in how the states organize the elections for President/VP and Congress - after all, those elected serve the federal government. Has it ever been tried to pass a federal law setting out minimum standards for the states to organize their elections?

Fourth, I'd think a federal judge would recognize that interest too and take a deep look at the newly minted law challenged. Moreover, federal judges then often give detailed instructions on what's exactly wrong with the law. Once you climb up the federal court ladder, say you're in 9th Circuit Court, you have a decision that's binding on a dozen states.

Fifth, I'd think that number of polling places would also be a federal concern. Those aerial shots that CNN has of polling places with a miles-long queue outside it make the USA the laughing butt of the first world when it comes to elections. No, "national pride" is nowhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights but a creative judge can read it somewhere between the lines. :)


You're making a lot of assumptions and speculations about what should happen and what judges should do. I can only say it doesn't work that way here, and the people who benefit from the system as it is are not going to support major changes.
 
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^^
Not that this is not useful or interesting information, but it's been asked that it be left out of the Trump thread.
 
This is totally and utterly my opinion. Feel free to sue me Trump.

But Trump just shows the signs of an erractic dude on drugs.

I could be totally wrong but to me it's becoming pretty obvious
 
So you commit a crime involving money and the fine is ten percent of the original amount. The are certain bets in Las Vegas casinos that have a larger vig.

Isn't the purpose of a fine to discourage future wrong-doing?

Yeah, that caught my eye as well. The reaction to that fine must have be, "Ho, hum. BFD" In other words, it had no deterrent effect whatsoever.
 
That there is a huge overlap between the "Business Class Elites" and the "GOP Elites" seems to have passed logger by......

Exactly, as evidenced by the complaints about the revolving door between Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue. It's naive to think they are distinct classes.

Funny, how many libs claim Hillary is cozy with business and Wall Street?
Yeah, that's funny all right. Because Hillary is a damn good example that negates your original claim. You didn't think that original claim or citing HRC, though, did you?
 
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Yeah, that caught my eye as well. The reaction to that fine must have be, "Ho, hum. BFD" In other words, it had no deterrent effect whatsoever.

Imagine if the story was about the Clinton Foundation instead of the Trump Foundation.

And most recently he’s found out that Trump’s charitable foundation made an illegal campaign contribution to Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. Then when they found out they had broken the law, they kinda sorta corrected the error but didn’t actually follow their legal obligation to get the money back.

It’s all at least a little suspicious. The story includes the phrase: “Trump staffers said that a series of unusual — and unrelated — errors by people working for Trump had led to both the improper donation and to the omission of that donation from the foundation's tax filings.”

What’s more, the contribution to Bondi came right when she was one of several attorneys general who were looking into possible Trump University fraud investigations. Shortly after receiving the illegal campaign contribution she dropped the investigation.

Oh, also, it turns out that the Trump Foundation itself was part of a setup to ensure that Trump’s own money was never used to finance a Trump charitable contribution.
 
his visit was to benefit his presidential campaign, which every political junkie seems to acknowledge that is was a success.


Citation needed.

Who, other than his spokes-bobbles, have been calling it a success?
 
All kinds of schemes are widely discussed. Many states have early voting at polling places in addition to the official Tuesday election. And of course, you can vote by absentee ballot almost everywhere. A frequent proposal is to hold elections on a weekend day instead of a work day, or hold polls open for 24 hours straight. There are always at least two concerns. One is the additional cost. The other is that the party in power doesn't want to make it easier for the other side to benefit. You'll find polling places closed or moved at the last minute in minority neighborhoods, fewer voting machines, sudden temporary parking restrictions, etc.

You have to understand that the U.S. doesn't hold national elections. All elections, even for the only two national offices, are conducted by states, cities, counties and towns. State and local officials make the rules, hire the staff, assign polling places, buy the equipment, etc. There is no national authority that can tell everybody "do it this way." That's why voter ID laws, to take one example, are being proposed and fought state-by-state.

Ohio has been notorious for hanky panky. Presidential election after Presidential election there are few machines and long lines for voting in urban minority districts and no parking and no lines, plenty of parking and a surplus of machines in wealthy suburban districts.

I'd be shocked if it doesn't happen again this year.
 
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