Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Stacyhs]

In fairness, a guilty Knox might have wanted to mention this trip just in case any witnesses came forward to report having seen her travelling to and fro between Sollecito's apartment and the cottage that morning.

But it's moot anyhow. Knox and Sollecito had nothing to do with the murder, nor any mythical post-murder miraculously-selective clean-up.

If she was thinking that far ahead, she would have mentioned going into the convenience store where two people were working and whom she would know had definitely seen her.

 

[Bill Williams]

In fairness, a guilty Knox might have wanted to mention this trip just in case any witnesses came forward to report having seen her travelling to and fro between Sollecito's apartment and the cottage that morning.

But it's moot anyhow. Knox and Sollecito had nothing to do with the murder, nor any mythical post-murder miraculously-selective clean-up.

Then they'd also be mentioning being out in the Plaza at night!

 

[LondonJohn]

If she was thinking that far ahead, she would have mentioned going into the convenience store where two people were working and whom she would know had definitely seen her.

Well quite. And of course they would also have never have claimed to have been inside Sollecito's apartment the evening/night before. Even though the night of the murder was quiet* in Perugia owing to it being a sombre family-oriented public holiday, there would have been enough people around to have potentially spotted Knox and Sollecito walking down Garibaldi and across the square and the basketball court.

And in addition, there were CCTV cameras visible to anyone coming down Garibaldi and across the square - there was no way whatsoever that Knox or Sollecito would have been able to know whether or not those cameras were recording images. They would have been almost totally destroyed (and convicted) had CCTV recordings shown them, say, walking down Garibaldi at 9.30pm and back up Garibaldi at 12.30am, when they had already repeatedly stated that they'd spent the whole evening inside Sollecito's apartment.

Had Knox and Sollecito been guilty and savvy (and they would have had plenty of time to figure all this out between the murder and their first interviews with police etc), they would surely have said something along the lines of having gone out that evening for a walk or something. It would have been extraordinarily risky to have claimed repeatedly to have been within Sollecito's apartment all evening/night. Interestingly, I strongly believe Guede employed identically similar logic when he took care to mention the occurrence and the timing of Kercher's very loud scream - I think he wanted to ensure that this element of fact was correctly noted and timed, in case anyone outside the apartment (in the street or car park or inside the residences opposite) had heard this scream.


* Contrary, of course, to Curatolo's ludicrous claim of there being loads of revellers in fancy dress costumes in and around the square, getting onto the disco buses. It's abundantly clear that Curatolo can only here be describing the evening/night of Halloween, 31st October - the evening/night before the murder. And this factor in itself renders his entire testimony null and void - though there are plenty of other factors which reinforce just how unreliable, incredible and unusable his "recollection" was.

 

[LondonJohn]

Then they'd also be mentioning being out in the Plaza at night!

See my previous post

PS I had home-made chicken Xacuti for dinner. As Dr Tia would say: "Did YOU?"

(Hugely obscure British comedy reference there, for fans of obscure British comedy )

 

[LondonJohn]

Wow.

The new documentary film - "Amanda Knox" - is profiled in this Vanity Fair article:

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/amanda-knox-netflix-documentary

The part that particularly fascinates me is what this articles says about Mignini's participation. It doesn't surprise me that his ego drove him to want to put "his side of the story" and try to protect/defend his image and legacy. But the lengths he appears to be going to in order to do so are extraordinary, even by his standards.

The article mentions how Mignini clearly revelled in the public adulation and near-worship he was getting in those early days. That's a huge (but hardly unexpected) red flag right there for his objectivity, not to mention his (lack of) ability to modify or abandon his position in the face of better evidence. In fact, I think this goes a long way towards explaining exactly why Mignini (and others in the police and PMs' office) ploughed on against Knox and Sollecito in a state of high confirmation bias and tunnel vision - they were utterly unwilling to concede that they might have been wrong, with all of the personal and professional reputational damage that might have caused. No: Mignini loved being "the guy who solved the biggest crime in Perugia's modern history". He didn't want to be known as "the guy who announced he'd solved the biggest crime in Perugia's modern history, only to quickly admit that he'd got it all wrong".

And, in an extremely telling part of the interview with Mignini, he shows that he still clings to his disturbing narrative of the murder - a narrative for which there was never a single shred of evidence, even before all the rest of the evidence was shown to be fundamentally unreliable and incredible. Says the article:

Amanda’s motive for the murder of a girl she scarcely knew, says the prosecutor, was her “lack of morality,” her desire for “pleasure at any cost,” which led her to wield a large knife “that teases then plunges” into her roommate’s neck.

That Mignini is still saying these sorts of things to interviewers in 2015/16 - long after the case has been roundly thrown out by the Supreme Court, is both disgusting and improper. And it shows the way in which Mignini's twisted mind probably constructed a sick fantasy which drove his warped morality, which in turn drove his zeal against Knox in particular (he wove Knox's devil-like emasculation and corruption of Sollecito into his sick fantasy as well.....).

The end of the article contains a quote from Mignini which is hard to read, especially in the light of the amount of personal effort - tainted with quasi-religious zeal and multiple instances of dissembling and misrepresentions in court, and disgraceful briefings to tame journalists before and during the trials process - that Mignini put into prosecuting Knox and Sollecito:

“If they are innocent, I hope they can forget the suffering they endured,” says the prosecutor.

What a disgusting, disgraceful man Mignini is. He's not fit to hold public office. I hope events catch up with him properly, and that he's one day held to account for his role in all this.

 

[bagels]

At least he considers the possibility of her innocence lol. Maybe Vixen can learn a thing or two from Mignini

 

[NotEvenWrong]

At least he considers the possibility of her innocence lol. Maybe Vixen can learn a thing or two from Mignini

OMGosh. Even Mignini has succumbed to the demonic PR campaign. Does the far-reaching hand of the Freemasons know no limits? I mean, if we are to believe Vixen here there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for their guilt and it's obvious as day. Now the prosecutor is saying it's possible they are innocent?

How does this make any sense? Good thing there is a conspiracy somewhere around the corner to explain all this!

Edited by Agatha: 

Do not alter usernames to insult

 

[Bill Williams]

“If they are innocent, I hope they can forget the suffering they endured,” says the prosecutor.

What a disgusting, disgraceful man Mignini is. He's not fit to hold public office. I hope events catch up with him properly, and that he's one day held to account for his role in all this.

At least he considers the possibility of her innocence lol. Maybe Vixen can learn a thing or two from Mignini

OMGosh. Even Mignini has succumbed to the demonic PR campaign. Does the far-reaching hand of the Freemasons know no limits? I mean, if we are to believe Vixen here there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for their guilt and it's obvious as day. Now the prosecutor is saying it's possible they are innocent?

How does this make any sense? Good thing there is a conspiracy somewhere around the corner to explain all this!

Edited by Agatha: 

Removed moderated content

Holy Moley - If Mignini is saying this - Guilter #0 - how can any of the other looneys continue? It'd be like continuing in a cult when the cult leader has 'fessed up to having one on on you!

If this documentary doesn't end things, nothing will. It is irrelevant who is saying anything at this point a year post-exoneration, when "the man" himself says things like this.......

...... what exactly were the last 8 years and nine months all about?

What this reminds me of is that page in John Follain's book - Follain's description of Mignini's very thoughts the moment he saw Knox finally meeting her own lawyers. Acc. to Follain - a friend to Mignini - Mignini mourned that she had warmed up to her lawyers so quickly, thinking, "Now we'll never know the truth."

What a miserable excuse for a man.

 

[dropzone]

Your use of the term "Mez" is offensive in the extreme.

After all of Vixen's posts in which she groundlessly accuses innocent people of murder it took that to offend you? You are made of sterner stuff than I, Bill.

 

[Bill Williams]

After all of Vixen's posts in which she groundlessly accuses innocent people of murder it took that to offend you? You are made of sterner stuff than I, Bill.

Have I not been transparent as to offence?

 

[LondonJohn]

So......

It turns out that Vixen's post showing the manga drawing from which she drew the claim that Kercher's body was posed in "exactly" the same position as that of the body in the drawing was NOT censored by the mods. Here it is:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10830862#post10830862

The link to the manga drawing is residing behind both a NSFW tag and a spoiler tag.

As expected, the position/pose of the body in the manga image and Kercher's body as it was found share virtually no similarities, other than that both victims are lying on their backs. In the manga image, the body has its left leg bent fully at the knee with the knee pointing almost vertically upwards. Kercher's left leg was straight and lying on the floor. In the manga image, the body's right leg is straight. Kercher's right leg was slightly bent at the knee, but the whole leg remained in contact with the ground with the knee pointing outwards. In the manga image, the body's two arms are straight and lying slightly apart from the body. Kercher's right arm was positioned similar to the right arm in the manga image, but her left arm was fully bent at the elbow with the hand up by the face.

So in fact, the most one can say by way of similarity is that 1) both bodies were lying on their backs, and 2) Kercher's right arm was positioned in a similar way to the right arm in the manga image (but in a natural - and probably default - position, lying alongside and slightly away from the torso/hips). The other three of Kercher's limbs are in fact in dramatically different positions to those of the body in the manga image.

So that's another one to chalk up as....... well, what shall we call it.........?


ETA ps: The post in question was from almost exactly a year ago, and five threads back in the list. So it was hardly something that was ever going to be easy to find.....

 

[Stacyhs]

So......

It turns out that Vixen's post showing the manga drawing from which she drew the claim that Kercher's body was posed in "exactly" the same position as that of the body in the drawing was NOT censored by the mods. Here it is:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10830862#post10830862

The link to the manga drawing is residing behind both a NSFW tag and a spoiler tag.

As expected, the position/pose of the body in the manga image and Kercher's body as it was found share virtually no similarities, other than that both victims are lying on their backs. In the manga image, the body has its left leg bent fully at the knee with the knee pointing almost vertically upwards. Kercher's left leg was straight and lying on the floor. In the manga image, the body's right leg is straight. Kercher's right leg was slightly bent at the knee, but the whole leg remained in contact with the ground with the knee pointing outwards. In the manga image, the body's two arms are straight and lying slightly apart from the body. Kercher's right arm was positioned similar to the right arm in the manga image, but her left arm was fully bent at the elbow with the hand up by the face.

So in fact, the most one can say by way of similarity is that 1) both bodies were lying on their backs, and 2) Kercher's right arm was positioned in a similar way to the right arm in the manga image (but in a natural - and probably default - position, lying alongside and slightly away from the torso/hips). The other three of Kercher's limbs are in fact in dramatically different positions to those of the body in the manga image.

So that's another one to chalk up as....... well, what shall we call it.........?


ETA ps: The post in question was from almost exactly a year ago, and five threads back in the list. So it was hardly something that was ever going to be easy to find.....

Now wait a minute here, LJ! Are you trying to tell us that Vixen claimed something that was not true? My world has just come crashing down.

 

[Planigale]

So......

It turns out that Vixen's post showing the manga drawing from which she drew the claim that Kercher's body was posed in "exactly" the same position as that of the body in the drawing was NOT censored by the mods. Here it is:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10830862#post10830862

The link to the manga drawing is residing behind both a NSFW tag and a spoiler tag.

As expected, the position/pose of the body in the manga image and Kercher's body as it was found share virtually no similarities, other than that both victims are lying on their backs. In the manga image, the body has its left leg bent fully at the knee with the knee pointing almost vertically upwards. Kercher's left leg was straight and lying on the floor. In the manga image, the body's right leg is straight. Kercher's right leg was slightly bent at the knee, but the whole leg remained in contact with the ground with the knee pointing outwards. In the manga image, the body's two arms are straight and lying slightly apart from the body. Kercher's right arm was positioned similar to the right arm in the manga image, but her left arm was fully bent at the elbow with the hand up by the face.

So in fact, the most one can say by way of similarity is that 1) both bodies were lying on their backs, and 2) Kercher's right arm was positioned in a similar way to the right arm in the manga image (but in a natural - and probably default - position, lying alongside and slightly away from the torso/hips). The other three of Kercher's limbs are in fact in dramatically different positions to those of the body in the manga image.

So that's another one to chalk up as....... well, what shall we call it.........?


ETA ps: The post in question was from almost exactly a year ago, and five threads back in the list. So it was hardly something that was ever going to be easy to find.....

Been there, done that. Please catch up LJ. Vixen has already moved on now it is staging like the Boston Strangler.

Given the seeming theatricality of the crime scene, smashed window with boulder under chair, seemingly thrown from inside the room, judging by trajectory, lack of glass shards outside, dent on inner shutter, Filomena's clothes half heartedly thrown about, the hand mark on the wall, Mez' horrifically posed body (like something out of the Boston Strangler), it's little wonder cops puzzled as to what was the 'meaning' of the empty lip-balm jar, which also appeared to have been posed 'for show'.

Of course, Vaseline is associated with sex lubricants. Some use it as a spermicide (these people are generally called parents, later). Amanda claimed in her email to the world that cops asked her if Mez indulged in anal sex, which I find a strange question, if true. It seems Silenzi might have done.

It is a moot point as to whether the stain on the pillow is spermatozoa or Vaseline. Rape is defined in most countries as 'penile penetration' and the fact of Rudy's epilithial cells (skin), but not DNA obtained from spermatozoa, already incriminates Rudy. Ejaculating outside the body doesn't add to the crime one way or the other. Lack of testing is to Raff's advantage, as Rudy is already damned (assuming it was unconsented, and from the bruising found by the pathologists and gynaecologist, it almost certainly was).

All three were already charged with 'aggravated murder' on grounds of the violent sexual assault, so the stain on the pillow, whilst of academic interest, doesn't add to the legal argument, although it is noted the defence did not submit a request for semen testing until after the trial, no doubt knowing full well it was merely for show and that the court would dismiss it, as not new evidence (i.e., not known of, nor could have been known of as of the time of the trial, and, in addition, had a reasonable chance of success in overturning the verdict).

Of course the Boston strangler strangled his victims (bit of a clue in the name Vixen), but Vixen does seem to have moved on from the Manga factoid.

 

[Vixen]

So......

It turns out that Vixen's post showing the manga drawing from which she drew the claim that Kercher's body was posed in "exactly" the same position as that of the body in the drawing was NOT censored by the mods. Here it is:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10830862#post10830862

The link to the manga drawing is residing behind both a NSFW tag and a spoiler tag.

As expected, the position/pose of the body in the manga image and Kercher's body as it was found share virtually no similarities, other than that both victims are lying on their backs. In the manga image, the body has its left leg bent fully at the knee with the knee pointing almost vertically upwards. Kercher's left leg was straight and lying on the floor. In the manga image, the body's right leg is straight. Kercher's right leg was slightly bent at the knee, but the whole leg remained in contact with the ground with the knee pointing outwards. In the manga image, the body's two arms are straight and lying slightly apart from the body. Kercher's right arm was positioned similar to the right arm in the manga image, but her left arm was fully bent at the elbow with the hand up by the face.

So in fact, the most one can say by way of similarity is that 1) both bodies were lying on their backs, and 2) Kercher's right arm was positioned in a similar way to the right arm in the manga image (but in a natural - and probably default - position, lying alongside and slightly away from the torso/hips). The other three of Kercher's limbs are in fact in dramatically different positions to those of the body in the manga image.

So that's another one to chalk up as....... well, what shall we call it.........?


ETA ps: The post in question was from almost exactly a year ago, and five threads back in the list. So it was hardly something that was ever going to be easy to find.....

This man falsely and groundlessly accused me of lying about having already posted the picture, and there is no sign of any apology.

The mods didn't remove it. there was a red box and I just assumed they had as the term NSFW wasn't immediately obvious.

 

[Vixen]

Homework

OK Peeps have a look at the following photo. It is the door to Mez' room, and you can see a long streak of diluted blood running down the side.

Put your thinking caps on and complete the following captions.

"This streak of blood diluted by water indicates a c.... u.."

"The only person/s around to c.... u. was A..... and R...."

 

[Vixen]

Wow.

The new documentary film - "Amanda Knox" - is profiled in this Vanity Fair article:

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/amanda-knox-netflix-documentary

The part that particularly fascinates me is what this articles says about Mignini's participation. It doesn't surprise me that his ego drove him to want to put "his side of the story" and try to protect/defend his image and legacy. But the lengths he appears to be going to in order to do so are extraordinary, even by his standards.

The article mentions how Mignini clearly revelled in the public adulation and near-worship he was getting in those early days. That's a huge (but hardly unexpected) red flag right there for his objectivity, not to mention his (lack of) ability to modify or abandon his position in the face of better evidence. In fact, I think this goes a long way towards explaining exactly why Mignini (and others in the police and PMs' office) ploughed on against Knox and Sollecito in a state of high confirmation bias and tunnel vision - they were utterly unwilling to concede that they might have been wrong, with all of the personal and professional reputational damage that might have caused. No: Mignini loved being "the guy who solved the biggest crime in Perugia's modern history". He didn't want to be known as "the guy who announced he'd solved the biggest crime in Perugia's modern history, only to quickly admit that he'd got it all wrong".

And, in an extremely telling part of the interview with Mignini, he shows that he still clings to his disturbing narrative of the murder - a narrative for which there was never a single shred of evidence, even before all the rest of the evidence was shown to be fundamentally unreliable and incredible. Says the article:

Amanda’s motive for the murder of a girl she scarcely knew, says the prosecutor, was her “lack of morality,” her desire for “pleasure at any cost,” which led her to wield a large knife “that teases then plunges” into her roommate’s neck.

That Mignini is still saying these sorts of things to interviewers in 2015/16 - long after the case has been roundly thrown out by the Supreme Court, is both disgusting and improper. And it shows the way in which Mignini's twisted mind probably constructed a sick fantasy which drove his warped morality, which in turn drove his zeal against Knox in particular (he wove Knox's devil-like emasculation and corruption of Sollecito into his sick fantasy as well.....).

The end of the article contains a quote from Mignini which is hard to read, especially in the light of the amount of personal effort - tainted with quasi-religious zeal and multiple instances of dissembling and misrepresentions in court, and disgraceful briefings to tame journalists before and during the trials process - that Mignini put into prosecuting Knox and Sollecito:

“If they are innocent, I hope they can forget the suffering they endured,” says the prosecutor.

What a disgusting, disgraceful man Mignini is. He's not fit to hold public office. I hope events catch up with him properly, and that he's one day held to account for his role in all this.

Given that the author of the piece is a fanatical Knoxite, we should take it with a pinch of salt.

The quote from Mignini is probably taken completely out of context.

The context is probably along the lines of, "Mr Mignini, we know you are convinced of the kids' guilt. However, what if they are actually innocent, have you considered that?"

MIgnini gives it deep considerable thought for, oh, one nanosecond, waves his hand dismissively, and there's your quote, gleefully leapt on by a misinformation merchant.

 

[bagels]

Blood...at the scene of a stabbing??

 

[LondonJohn]

OK Peeps have a look at the following photo. It is the door to Mez' room, and you can see a long streak of diluted blood running down the side.

Put your thinking caps on and complete the following captions.

"This streak of blood diluted by water indicates a c.... u.."

"The only person/s around to c.... u. was A..... and R...."

1) It's the door to the small bathroom. Not the door to Mez' Mez's Kercher's room. One can even see the toilet and bidet in the background. More outstanding research there

2) Why does a streak of diluted water necessarily indicate a "clean up" of the scene? Why could it not have been the case that the perpetrator - Guede - washed blood off his hands and clothing in the small bathroom and subsequently placed his hand on the door frame, thereby causing the deposit of an amount of dilute blood which then ran down the frame? Yet more hugely flawed deductive reasoning from Vixen there, I'm afraid.

3) In any case, further hugely flawed deductive reasoning comes along immediately in Vixen's post with the stupid contention that Knox and/or Sollecito were the "only" people around to clean up. We know from his own account that Guede spent at least several minutes in the cottage after the murder, and we know (again from his own account, and from the evidence) that he visited the small bathroom at least once, that he washed blood from his hands and clothing, and that he brought towels from there into Kercher's room. So actually we know with extremely high confidence that Guede himself executed a form of "clean up" in that he washed blood from himself and used towels to wipe blood around Kercher's body.

Other than that....etc...etc......

 

[Chris_Halkides]

stomach contents and time of death

I added an entry at my blog about the use of the contents of the stomach to estimate time of death. IMO there is no justification for the pseudo-precision in the Truscott case. However, there is information about TOD in the contents of the stomach in some cases.

 

[Bill Williams]

Given that the author of the piece is a fanatical Knoxite, we should take it with a pinch of salt.

The quote from Mignini is probably taken completely out of context.
The context is probably along the lines of, "Mr Mignini, we know you are convinced of the kids' guilt. However, what if they are actually innocent, have you considered that?"

MIgnini gives it deep considerable thought for, oh, one nanosecond, waves his hand dismissively, and there's your quote, gleefully leapt on by a misinformation merchant.

LOL!

Rather than demonstrate what the context was - factually - Vixen invents something she thinks probably happened.

And then uses the "probably" to accuse the poster of being a misinformation merchant. All the while accusing him of being a "Knoxite", while perhaps being resistant herself to being deemed a "Migniniite". The modifier "-ite" should be reserved for people who simply make things up to defend a hero of theirs. Hoots!

Nope. You cannot make this stuff up.