Baltimore to ban grades lower than 50%?

[Modified]

You never want to be a current student when a university changes systems like that, figuring out the class equivalencies was a nightmare (of course they offloaded the work of figuring it out onto us students...) I can't imagine how much worse it was for the 3rd years, or the 4th out of 5 years

Yeah, I just barely missed the switch both times.

 

[fuelair]

.
This was used on some schools in the US including one in Orange County.
It took several years to get it stopped. Apparently some teachers notified their Alma Maters and other colleges/universities of the practice. I assume you can see where that would tend to lead!!!! Since Baltimoie is more blatant about letting the world know of this plan...................

Also, I warned my students that colleges/universities knowing that the practice was in place at our school would affect even the good students who did their work, paid attention and studied since any c/u knowing it was done could not be sure any student truly earned their grade -or could under the normal grading system. In other words, it had the potential to bring down the reputation/trust in the school(s) using the policy and thus disadvantaging it's good students in college placement.

 

[Modified]

Also, I warned my students that colleges/universities knowing that the practice was in place at our school would affect even the good students who did their work, paid attention and studied since any c/u knowing it was done could not be sure any student truly earned their grade -or could under the normal grading system. In other words, it had the potential to bring down the reputation/trust in the school(s) using the policy and thus disadvantaging it's good students in college placement.

If the resulting spread of grades was the same, grades under this system should better predict success in college. It would knock down mediocre but consistent students and elevate the bright but less consistent or more distracted ones. The latter type generally "settle down" at some point in college and perform well.

Of course the actual result may include overall grade inflation.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

I actually know the reason for this and it has nothing to do with 0's being hurtful to the student. The reason you don't get 0's on an assignment, unless the teacher is gunning for you, is that school is expensive and its very hard to battle back from 0 to get a passing grade if you fall behind a few weeks. However it's 50% and a couple A paper's gets you back into passing territory. I have no idea why people would be against this for, as you know school is expensive, and taking a class twice costs twice as much and takes twice as long, also, you really don't learn twice as much by taking the same class twice either. So its a dollars and cents thing. As far as the are they prepared thing, either you are prepared to work or you are not. I really don't think it's fair to teachers to lay it on the grades thing. I know plenty of people who could whip out a 63 page powerpoint with graphics in 45 minutes who probably couldn't handle a job. Just let people succeed. The people who want to work will work regardless of what grade they got in a particular class they don't remember anymore anyway.

 

[mijopaalmc]

I actually know the reason for this and it has nothing to do with 0's being hurtful to the student. The reason you don't get 0's on an assignment, unless the teacher is gunning for you, is that school is expensive and its very hard to battle back from 0 to get a passing grade if you fall behind a few weeks. However it's 50% and a couple A paper's gets you back into passing territory. I have no idea why people would be against this for, as you know school is expensive, and taking a class twice costs twice as much and takes twice as long, also, you really don't learn twice as much by taking the same class twice either. So its a dollars and cents thing. As far as the are they prepared thing, either you are prepared to work or you are not. I really don't think it's fair to teachers to lay it on the grades thing. I know plenty of people who could whip out a 63 page powerpoint with graphics in 45 minutes who probably couldn't handle a job. Just let people succeed. The people who want to work will work regardless of what grade they got in a particular class they don't remember anymore anyway.

This would be relevant if we were talking about college rather than publicly-funded elementary schools.

 

[fuelair]

I actually know the reason for this and it has nothing to do with 0's being hurtful to the student. The reason you don't get 0's on an assignment, unless the teacher is gunning for you, is that school is expensive and its very hard to battle back from 0 to get a passing grade if you fall behind a few weeks. However it's 50% and a couple A paper's gets you back into passing territory. I have no idea why people would be against this for, as you know school is expensive, and taking a class twice costs twice as much and takes twice as long, also, you really don't learn twice as much by taking the same class twice either. So its a dollars and cents thing. As far as the are they prepared thing, either you are prepared to work or you are not. I really don't think it's fair to teachers to lay it on the grades thing. I know plenty of people who could whip out a 63 page powerpoint with graphics in 45 minutes who probably couldn't handle a job. Just let people succeed. The people who want to work will work regardless of what grade they got in a particular class they don't remember anymore anyway.

No argument on that in college - though when I was going to college (all three times - BS Bio/Chem, MLS and over half of an MBA -(got bored and had a good job anyway!!!) had no such problem.

High school students are not paying (unless private schooled) and, frankly if they are a)disruptive and b) not doing the work, cutting slack does not go over well - not to mention it means otherwise unnecessary work getting with the parents so they can assist in helping/keeping on track the student when we could be concentrating on the teaching/working with the students who want to or are at least willing to work on learning.

 

[fuelair]

If the resulting spread of grades was the same, grades under this system should better predict success in college. It would knock down mediocre but consistent students and elevate the bright but less consistent or more distracted ones. The latter type generally "settle down" at some point in college and perform well. [ This is quoted from Modified (post 23 above). The quote thing messed up during the transfer. No idea how/why. ]

Of course the actual result may include overall grade inflation. Our county, to eliminate that problem, required that all tests for the same class had to be used by all teachers of that class and the tests had to make up 50-60% of the student's grade. There were other major requirements for what the other grades in the class had to cover and how they had to cover them (every class a notebook, same things in every notebook for any given class, notebooks counted 20% (slight variability depending on subject and level and all notes required to be in Cornell format.) There is more,

 

[fuelair]

For the curious: Cornell notes format:

https://www.timeatlas.com/cornell-note-template/

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I look at lazy kids and think, whatever. Maybe they'll get motivated once they realize how screwed they are. But no, they're children, it's the teachers job to somehow motivate them.

Typical exchange:
Them: "Miss, I don't get this."
Me: "Pick up a pencil."
"But Miss, I don't get this."
"OK, it asks you "What is 3x + 1 if x=2." Just replace the x with "2" and work the problem."
Them: "Miss, you're confusing me."

Teacher thinks 'whatever' and half-heartedly attempts to motivate kids is proof that they are lazy?

 

[fuelair]

Oh, the tests were scan sheeted so no one could fake the grades other than by physically changing student answers. Which was a wonderful way to get oneself fired tout suite!!!

 

[fuelair]

Teacher thinks 'whatever' and half-heartedly attempts to motivate kids is proof that they are lazy?

Just curious and hoping I am misinterpreting your meaning but...............
are you saying teacher does not want to motivate the child or that the child is totally unmotivated to do anything that requires performing the difficult act of thinking. Putting this the best and nicest way I can, very few teachers have dramatics training or real psychological training and if thy did they would not likely be teaching. If it helps, I was that kind of student - no punishments of school or home motivated me to learn anything I was not interested in and/or saw was of no use for me. The last proof of that was when my mother found out from the teacher in 4th grade that the things I chose to do were at 7th + level , my IQ was very high (Mom was told but asked not to tell me), and I clearly was only doing what I liked to. In 5th grade, I mostly read the entire World Book and a number of Heinlein juveniles,some 25 Horatio Algers and all the Mythology in the school library. And I passed fine

Some kids who do not cooperate and do the schoolwork are learning, others are not.........The teachers will tend to have different problems And over the years I did manage to affect positively the bad habits of some of them.
My advantage in teaching was knowing the difference.

 

[Minoosh]

Teacher thinks 'whatever' and half-heartedly attempts to motivate kids is proof that they are lazy?

I know that sounds bad, but I hope you can tell from the context that I correct myself in the same post. The school where I work (as a paraprofessional, not lead classroom teacher) has quite a few students (usually boys) who will literally do nothing without someone standing over them. I can't just say, "It's their choice to fail." I have to stick by them, redirect them repeatedly and document the effort.

A lot are freshmen and don't seem to always get that if they flunk the class they have to take it over again. They are used to middle school, which doesn't have a credit system - you're either held back or promoted. There are older students who are taking Algebra 1 for the third time. If there was a magic wand for making them work someone would have waved it already. This problem resolves itself somewhat as they mature and realize they don't want to be in high school when they're 21.

At some point the teacher or aide has to apportion some effort to students who are actually trying to do the work. Meanwhile I document the efforts made to get the unmotivated students on task. It's great to get to know individual students well enough to figure out why they are unmotivated and come up with strategies to engage them, but it's not easy.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

This would be relevant if we were talking about college rather than publicly-funded elementary schools.

I think the principle is the same though the stakes are much higher than in college. A student who gets too far behind in public school has to repeat the whole year which takes A WHOLE YEAR, the student is probably not going to have twice the knowledge for the time investment, as opposed to allowing them to save the semester. There is also the spectre of what happens when the student turns 18. Do we really want 18-19 year olds in high school? Might be better to give them a chance don't you think? Mr. Trump what is your opinion?

 

[Minoosh]

I think the principle is the same though the stakes are much higher than in college. A student who gets too far behind in public school has to repeat the whole year which takes A WHOLE YEAR, the student is probably not going to have twice the knowledge for the time investment, as opposed to allowing them to save the semester. There is also the spectre of what happens when the student turns 18. Do we really want 18-19 year olds in high school? Might be better to give them a chance don't you think? Mr. Trump what is your opinion?

Those are routine ages in many high schools. K-12 = 13 years. If they start kindergarten at 5, they'll be 18 when they graduate. Held back, they could easily be 19 as seniors. I had a 20-year-old student pregnant with her second child. They can stay in high school until they're 22. The difference is that at 18 they are adults, so their participation in high school is completely voluntary.

You don't have to take a whole year of high school over again if you fail in one class, at least in my state. I've never heard of that being the case.

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but as for second chances, once they turn 18, or sometimes earlier, they can take the GED. I don't get the Trump reference - did he flunk something?

Back on topic: What to do about the zeros? Is there a more rational grading scale? The link I posted above includes comments from teachers who float alternative schemes. The first school I worked at had a flunk rate for freshman algebra higher than 50 percent. The grade was 90 percent tests and quizzes. Where I am now, a huge part of their grade is worksheets and they usually have an opportunity to work on those in class. If they just copied someone else's work they'd be close to a passing grade. But many don't even make the effort to do that much.

Overall they are dreadful test-takers. Students who have passed Algebra 2 do not know how to turn "seven less than a number is nine" into an equation.

 

[fuelair]

Those are routine ages in many high schools. K-12 = 13 years. If they start kindergarten at 5, they'll be 18 when they graduate. Held back, they could easily be 19 as seniors. I had a 20-year-old student pregnant with her second child. They can stay in high school until they're 22. The difference is that at 18 they are adults, so their participation in high school is completely voluntary.

You don't have to take a whole year of high school over again if you fail in one class, at least in my state. I've never heard of that being the case.

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but as for second chances, once they turn 18, or sometimes earlier, they can take the GED. I don't get the Trump reference - did he flunk something?

Back on topic: What to do about the zeros? Is there a more rational grading scale? The link I posted above includes comments from teachers who float alternative schemes. The first school I worked at had a flunk rate for freshman algebra higher than 50 percent. The grade was 90 percent tests and quizzes. Where I am now, a huge part of their grade is worksheets and they usually have an opportunity to work on those in class. If they just copied someone else's work they'd be close to a passing grade. But many don't even make the effort to do that much.

Overall they are dreadful test-takers. Students who have passed Algebra 2 do not know how to turn "seven less than a number is nine" into an equation.

For our special students, X-7= 9 (or, X=9+7)............

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

For our special students, X-7= 9 (or, X=9+7)............

I know, you could use a calculator but you lose all the magic of it all when you do that. Maybe I will wait for the digital tutor to come out. Make my dtutor Hawkins

 

[Jodie]

I'm all about getting rid of the homework requirement. I don't remember having so much homework in middle and high school but it wasn't unusual for my children to have 2-3 hours of it after school. That cuts into any kind of recreation or family time, I despised it, and complained many times to the school board about the distortion of values by making "work" seem like THE most important aspect of your life. I think it is a cultural thing here in the U.S.

 

[fuelair]

I'm all about getting rid of the homework requirement. I don't remember having so much homework in middle and high school but it wasn't unusual for my children to have 2-3 hours of it after school. That cuts into any kind of recreation or family time, I despised it, and complained many times to the school board about the distortion of values by making "work" seem like THE most important aspect of your life. I think it is a cultural thing here in the U.S.

Depends...I suspect that unless your kids were in AP classes most of the homework was Language Arts and Math - and that is because those are the most tested and the ones most likely to get teachers ousted/transferred/poorly evaluated especially if the AP (the other AP - Assistant Principal) doesn't like them or wants someone else he/she has enjoyed working with in another school to replace him/her (no, I was never in that situation and is why I avoided (barely) certification in LA or M On top of my 5*)- that the teacher of those are under the most pressure to have the students do well on those tests. If the students they are given do not do well, the teacher can at least document both the lessons and the graded homework they gave and show the students tested at the best level they could under the circumstances - when they had to defend themselves from the Admins.

Even I kept such records and helpful notes though never needing them.

Media k-12, Science K-12, Chemistry, Biology,Physics (Also taught TV/Media as you could could teach same with the MLS and I had mad skilz in it!!!

 

[Minoosh]

Media k-12, Science K-12, Chemistry, Biology,Physics (Also taught TV/Media as you could could teach same with the MLS and I had mad skilz in it!!!

At first I wanted to teach ESL through making media ... I'd still like to do that because these students have some amazing stories. They want Donald Trump to know they're not all rapists.

 

[Jodie]

Depends...I suspect that unless your kids were in AP classes most of the homework was Language Arts and Math - and that is because those are the most tested and the ones most likely to get teachers ousted/transferred/poorly evaluated especially if the AP (the other AP - Assistant Principal) doesn't like them or wants someone else he/she has enjoyed working with in another school to replace him/her (no, I was never in that situation and is why I avoided (barely) certification in LA or M On top of my 5*)- that the teacher of those are under the most pressure to have the students do well on those tests. If the students they are given do not do well, the teacher can at least document both the lessons and the graded homework they gave and show the students tested at the best level they could under the circumstances - when they had to defend themselves from the Admins.

Even I kept such records and helpful notes though never needing them.

Media k-12, Science K-12, Chemistry, Biology,Physics (Also taught TV/Media as you could could teach same with the MLS and I had mad skilz in it!!!

They offered AP classes to my children but I wasn't a fan and encouraged them not to take them unless they wanted to since no distinction was made between the AP students and the students in the regular curriculum when it came time to decide who got scholarships based on GPA. There was no distinction made for who was valedictorian based on curriculum, you could take the most basic classes and get a 4.0 but the kid taking physics,chemistry, and trig with a 3.9 GPA got beat out by the kids taking easier classes. I still get mad about it to this day when I think about it and my kids are 27 and 32. Either way, it is not right to interfere with the children's lives just so teaching professionals can justify their jobs. I know it sounds harsh but that's the way I feel about it being on the other end of things.