Hillary Clinton is Done: part 3

[catsmate]

To do what?

To make a slightly better world.

 

[Mumbles]

I always wonder why people are so fixated on comments she makes. She's a politician, she'll say anything if it helps her. Things like the welfare reform bill actually kill black Americans. Being spoken to nice and non-offensively while being killed in an underhanded, almost invisible, way is not my idea of liberation.

And yes, I know that this bill was signed off by her husband - but does anyone really believe that she wouldn't have if it were her decision?

First, what acbytesla said. A lot of what Clinton initially went for was hampered by congressional republicans (and some dems - just as with the ACA, which also already needs revision)

Second - I have to wonder how true this "all politicians say whatever they can to get elected" thing is. I don't remember any politician that didn't, at least, try to deliver on most of their promises. They don't always deliver, and every plan changes as soon as a major event happens, but those are separate issues.

 

[The_Animus]

Donald Trump (to Blacks): You should vote for me. I'm not a bigot. Hillary is a bigot.
Large majority of Blacks: We don't think Hillary is a bigot.
Donald Trump: That's because you're all so stupid and brainwashed.

To be fair, most people in general, not just blacks, are stupid and brainwashed

As far as racism goes, I think Trump is extremely racist, Clinton only a little.

I recall Clinton making a similar comment regarding the intelligence of millennials. They're one of the demographics most critical of her and she said she felt sorry for them because they don't do their own research. Except of course young people are more likely to do their own research and rely less on mainstream media like CNN.

This is a tu quoque, though pointing it out in this instance isn't meant to argue for one candidate or another, nor to excuse the action in either candidates case. Just to say that candidates tend to think poorly of the intellect of those who aren't particularly supportive of them.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... racist, Clinton only a little.....

So if I'm nervous walking in a high crime area of Seattle, I'm a little racist if it also happens to be a black gang area?

In college, Hillary worked to get more blacks enrolled in Wellesley. She worked undercover to investigate housing discrimination. The Clinton Foundation spends a good deal of its resources on black populations. Bill set his post-POTUS office up in Harlem.

Where do you get this, a little bit racist, come from?

 

[The_Animus]

So if I'm nervous walking in a high crime area of Seattle, I'm a little racist if it also happens to be a black gang area?

Did you respond to the wrong person? It's almost like you continued an imaginary conversation in your head and responded to that instead of what I actually wrote.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Did you respond to the wrong person? It's almost like you continued an imaginary conversation in your head and responded to that instead of what I actually wrote.

I quoted what I responded to, you said Clinton was a little bit racist:

As far as racism goes, I think Trump is extremely racist, Clinton only a little.

It was a simple question, what do you base that on?

 

[The_Animus]

I quoted what I responded to, you said Clinton was a little bit racist:
It was a simple question, what do you base that on?

The same thing you do, our interpretations of past incidents. That and the fact that almost everyone is a little bit racist. Avenue Q says it so it must be true

But even a hint of racism is blasphemy against The Great One. Hence you respond with that rule of so strawman that had no relevance to what I said.

So if I'm nervous walking in a high crime area of Seattle, I'm a little racist if it also happens to be a black gang area?

No. Totally irrelevant. Thou doth protest too much, and in most ridiculous ways.

 

[Mumbles]

Donald Trump (to Blacks): You should vote for me. I'm not a bigot. Hillary is a bigot.
Large majority of Blacks: We don't think Hillary is a bigot.
Donald Trump: That's because you're all so stupid and brainwashed.

I have to say this yet again, this

Donald Trump (to Blacks)

Is not happening. At all.

First, any campaign can, and does, stage these speeches. They decide where to go, who gets in, and especially who sits behind the candidate. Even the knuckleheads in Trump's campaign do this. And their casual mentions about how scary it would be to go to a black neighborhood reveal that they do not want those optics.

Second - media appearances. A lot of people don't realize this, but it's not simply a matter of HBCUs*. It's also going to, among many other locations, black churches, the NAACP, radio shows like the Tom Joyner Morning Show, tv shows like Roland Martin's, and podcasts like This Week in Blackness or Another Round. Hillary does all of the above, to cover her bases. Trump does exactly none of the above, because he has no interest in those bases.

Of course, Trump hasn't only burned that bridge, he crashed a plane into it, stood on his side of the bridge dabbing, and then insisted that "dabbing" be called "Trumping".

(*: I'll note that Rand Paul, back in 2012-2014, likely visited more HBCUs in order to speak directly and almost exclusively to the students there, than Bernie Sanders did in the 2016 primary. I mean it when I say that this is especially about Trump's atrocious character, and not just dem vs. GOP.)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The same thing you do, our interpretations of past incidents. That and the fact that almost everyone is a little bit racist. Avenue Q says it so it must be true

But even a hint of racism is blasphemy against The Great One. Hence you respond with that rule of so strawman that had no relevance to what I said.



No. Totally irrelevant. Thou doth protest too much, and in most ridiculous ways.

So your idea of a little bit racist is simply the cultural norm?

That's the problem here, I don't interpret you saying Clinton is only a little bit racist to mean the background rate.

BTW, that highlighted sentence has a hell of a lot more straw in it than my interpreting your, 'Clinton is only a little bit racist', to mean more than the average person.

My point is, Clinton has been working on black issues since college. I find that to actually be evidence of less racism than the background level.

 

[halleyscomet]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM

 

[acbytesla]

I have to say this yet again, this

Is not happening. At all.

First, any campaign can, and does, stage these speeches. They decide where to go, who gets in, and especially who sits behind the candidate. Even the knuckleheads in Trump's campaign do this. And their casual mentions about how scary it would be to go to a black neighborhood reveal that they do not want those optics.

Second - media appearances. A lot of people don't realize this, but it's not simply a matter of HBCUs*. It's also going to, among many other locations, black churches, the NAACP, radio shows like the Tom Joyner Morning Show, tv shows like Roland Martin's, and podcasts like This Week in Blackness or Another Round. Hillary does all of the above, to cover her bases. Trump does exactly none of the above, because he has no interest in those bases.

Of course, Trump hasn't only burned that bridge, he crashed a plane into it, stood on his side of the bridge dabbing, and then insisted that "dabbing" be called "Trumping".

(*: I'll note that Rand Paul, back in 2012-2014, likely visited more HBCUs in order to speak directly and almost exclusively to the students there, than Bernie Sanders did in the 2016 primary. I mean it when I say that this is especially about Trump's atrocious character, and not just dem vs. GOP.)

Not only all of this, his birther attack on Obama that went on for years was viewed as racist by a lot of people, but especially by African-Americans. That alone destroyed any standing Trump may have ever had.

It would be one thing if Trump had attacked Obama's policies, but Trump was saying that the first African-American President was illegitimate. Obama showed people of color that anything was possible and the Birther attacks were viewed as White people who just couldn't accept it.

If Trump wasn't viewed as racist in the Black community before (And he wasn't that much before despite some of actions by his companies) the Birther attacks alone made him viewed as a closet and not so closet racist.

 

[Mumbles]

Not only all of this, his birther attack on Obama that went on for years was viewed as racist by a lot of people, but especially by African-Americans. That alone destroyed any standing Trump may have ever had.

It would be one thing if Trump had attacked Obama's policies, but Trump was saying that the first African-American President was illegitimate. Obama showed people of color that anything was possible and the Birther attacks were viewed as White people who just couldn't accept it.

If Trump wasn't viewed as racist in the Black community before (And he wasn't that much before despite some of actions by his companies) the Birther attacks alone made him viewed as a closet and not so closet racist.

The reminder alone makes me enraged enough to refuse to provide links.

I remember that, reflexively.

A pure "show me your teeth" move by Trump towards the first black president,provided by one Donald J Trump, and helped along by media who sat around giggling "we just can't stop talking about it.", while ignoring all important matters.

As I've said, I have yet to forgive the DC press for their asinine role in that debacle. Trump is unforgivable. The GOP needs help.

 

[acbytesla]

The reminder alone makes me enraged enough to refuse to provide links.

I remember that, reflexively.

A pure "show me your teeth" move by Trump towards the first black president,provided by one Donald J Trump, and helped along by media who sat around giggling "we just can't stop talking about it.", while ignoring all important matters.

As I've said, I have yet to forgive the DC press for their asinine role in that debacle. Trump is unforgivable. The GOP needs help.

I don't think the DC press was taking the birther thing very seriously, I think they were giggling at just how stupid Trump was for pushing it. But I do think it caused pain to African Americans and they shouldn't have done it. But like it or not Trump sold newspapers so they were bound to print that crap.

I sure like the slap-down Obama handed Trump at the Correspondents dinner. If you haven't seen it, check it out on YouTube. It's classic.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

Just to say that candidates tend to think poorly of the intellect of those who aren't particularly supportive of them.

Candidates, party officials, rannk and file. America hasn't been this divided since the Civil War. Democrats and Republicans don't just disagree with one another, they actively hate and fear each other.

 

[halleyscomet]

Not only all of this, his birther attack on Obama that went on for years was viewed as racist by a lot of people, but especially by African-Americans. That alone destroyed any standing Trump may have ever had.



It would be one thing if Trump had attacked Obama's policies, but Trump was saying that the first African-American President was illegitimate. Obama showed people of color that anything was possible and the Birther attacks were viewed as White people who just couldn't accept it.



If Trump wasn't viewed as racist in the Black community before (And he wasn't that much before despite some of actions by his companies) the Birther attacks alone made him viewed as a closet and not so closet racist.

By the time Trump jumped on the Birther bandwagon the evidence had already whittled it down to dog-whistle racism. All the people who thought there might be an actual issue with his constitutional eligibility had left the movement months to years before. By the Time Trump joined up the Birther argument was a more socially acceptable alternative to screaming "Get that ****** out of the WHITE house!" Trump might as well shaved his head, gotten an 88 tattoo on his Neck and worn a KKK hood to rallies in terms of declaring his racism.

Edited by Agatha: 

edited breach of rule 10. Please do not mask swear words; type them out in full and if they are on the forbidden list then the autocensor will take care of them.

 

[halleyscomet]

I'd always thought Hillary's creation of the Birther movement was a brilliant service to Barack Obama. Because of her, his most vocal opponents for about 6 years were a group that was growing increasingly overtly racist as evidence and law eviscerated their arguments. It became the focus of criticism of him. There was very little criticism of his actual policies as a result. I suspect the distraction of the Birther movement played a role in helping the ACA pass.

I even called Birthers "Hillary's Bi***es" to their faces and online to highlight just how damn useful they were to the then Secretary of State and the POTUS.

 

[Parsman]

I'd always thought Hillary's creation of the Birther movement was a brilliant service to Barack Obama. Because of her, his most vocal opponents for about 6 years were a group that was growing increasingly overtly racist as evidence and law eviscerated their arguments. It became the focus of criticism of him. There was very little criticism of his actual policies as a result. I suspect the distraction of the Birther movement played a role in helping the ACA pass.

I even called Birthers "Hillary's Bi***es" to their faces and online to highlight just how damn useful they were to the then Secretary of State and the POTUS.

Sorry are you SERIOUSLY trying to lay birtherism at the feet of Hillary Clinton? The whack jobs who propagated this bigoted nonsense ALL came out of right field, and you know it!

 

[varwoche]

I'd always thought Hillary's creation of the Birther movement...

Politifact rates this inane claim false.

As does factcheck.org.

It's best not to rely on Breibart and Trump for your facts.

 

[The Big Dog]

Sorry are you SERIOUSLY trying to lay birtherism at the feet of Hillary Clinton? The whack jobs who propagated this bigoted nonsense ALL came out of right field, and you know it!

Politifact rates this inane claim false.

As does factcheck.org.

It's best not to rely on Breibart and Trump for your facts.

Lolz, both those articles confirm that it started will Hilly's supporters. The fact that it could not be traced directly back to Sid blumenthal is meaningless.

 

[Garrison]

Lolz, both those articles confirm that it started will Hilly's supporters. The fact that it could not be traced directly back to Sid blumenthal is meaningless.

So the fact Cinton didn't start it is irrelevant to the argument that Clinton started it? Yep that fits with pretty much everything that Clinton's been accused of in this thread. From the factcheck article:

But none of those stories suggests any link between the Clinton campaign, let alone Clinton herself, and the advocacy of theories questioning Obama’s birth in Hawaii.