Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Vixen is excellent at avoiding answering questions. I've asked several that she still has not addressed. The latest is the hair she brought up implying they were Amanda's. She has failed to address the fact that Amanda's hair was dyed blonde and these hairs were not identified as being dyed which is very easy to see under a microscope.

Not every hair necessarily gets bleached.

 

[Vixen]

The kind of nut ..who's not a nut. The kind of nut who believes facts and science. The kind of nut who uses logic. The kind of nut who knows that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent and deserve compensation for being unjustly prosecuted and incarcerated.

My kind of nut.

What about fruitcake? You likee fruitcake, too?

 

[Bill Williams]

I'm not saying this is me and neither am I claiming it isn't. But serial homicide is best after a sauna.

Oh just the one brutal slaying sufficed for me.

And I'd have got away with it too, if it hadn't been for the homeless drug addict/dealer with messianic delusions and a history of feeding the police information for favours, who saw me out and about on the night of the murder when I'd told the police I'd been inside my apartment all night..... and the manager of my local convenience store who was miraculously able to remember after an entire year had elapsed that not only had I made an unremarkable visit to his store on the morning after the murder (when, again, I'd told the police I'd been in my apartment), but also exactly what I'd been wearing, my eye colour, and the direction I'd been heading when I left his store (and all that after saying he didn't recognise me at all when the police visited him soon after the murder).

I mean, I know some people say they seem to get more bad luck than most others, but really, this level of bad luck really takes the biscuit!!

Once again you miss the import of the sauna, LondonJohn. Such oversight on your part is the reason why Vixen is wiping the floor with your arguments, all the while even masking the fact that such a clean-up took place.

A sauna is better than either a bath or a shower because it is inherently social. My sauna (which may or may not be relevant) included Hellmann, Zanetti, Conti, Vecchiotti (in a Burkini), as well as all five Supreme Court justices from Section 5 - Gennaro Maresca, Paolo Bruno, Alfredo Guardiano, Luca Pistorelli, and Gabriele Positano.

Masons, all of them. And not just a sauna, but me with cheques made out in Euro for all of them, courtesy of Gogerty-Marriott.....

...... which needed to have this matter cleared up by March 2015 because Gogerty-Marriott would be busy for the 18 months after that to gerrymander the US Election, as well as make sure the UK left the EU.

You and your homeless guy were nowhere near the sauna. Neither was that convenience store owner.

Follow the money, dude, follow the money.

 

[Vixen]

Do you understand the meaning of the word 'putative'? I specifically said, "the putative semen stain" this references that the stain was never tested to confirm its nature, because the prosecution refused to permit this.

Ninja'd.

It could be a 'putative" budgerigar stain.

The police could see by looking at it (it glowed under flourescence) that it was a vaseline stain. Vaseline glows under a black light.

If you knew anything about biology, you'd know spermatozoa only live any length of time in the fallopian tubes. Those that fail to reach the safe haven die very quickly.

To get DNA from spermatozoa, you'd need to extract the DNA from the spermatozoa head. Not much use if it is all dried up and shrivelled away.

In any case, Vaseline kills spermatozoa.

You do know the perps delayed the body being found for a considerable amount of time.

Raff expressed great concern the forensics would identify the spermatozoa as his and that was why the defence carefully declined from requisitioning a spermatozoa test.

 

[Vixen]

so about those references from the police finding evidence for the bath mat being slid on? The reference for a police witness saying Knox smelt like an alley cat?

You boasted of going to primary sources so share them.

That you cannot come up with sources, makes me think that these are inventions of your own fevered mind. These fantasies tell us more about your morbid psychology and less about the truth of what happened on November1 all those years ago.

Please point me to where she mentions the 'bathmat shuffle' in her very detailed email home, to everybody in her address book, 3rd Nov 2007. No, that story only came later, after consulting with her brief.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Email_Home

 

[Vixen]

Once again you miss the import of the sauna, LondonJohn. Such oversight on your part is the reason why Vixen is wiping the floor with your arguments, all the while even masking the fact that such a clean-up took place.

A sauna is better than either a bath or a shower because it is inherently social. My sauna (which may or may not be relevant) included Hellmann, Zanetti, Conti, Vecchiotti (in a Burkini), as well as all five Supreme Court justices from Section 5 - Gennaro Maresca, Paolo Bruno, Alfredo Guardiano, Luca Pistorelli, and Gabriele Positano.

Masons, all of them. And not just a sauna, but me with cheques made out in Euro for all of them, courtesy of Gogerty-Marriott.....

...... which needed to have this matter cleared up by March 2015 because Gogerty-Marriott would be busy for the 18 months after that to gerrymander the US Election, as well as make sure the UK left the EU.

You and your homeless guy were nowhere near the sauna. Neither was that convenience store owner.

Follow the money, dude, follow the money.

For the record, all saunas are equipped with a shower. The more ancient ones - such as at a remote summer cottage - are well stocked with buckets, bowls and ladles, and plenty of water is brought in from the wells or a household tap.

Avoid electric saunas, as used by the Swedes.

 

[Vixen]

Oh dear!!! I shower twice a day and if I go out for dinner (which is about 3 times a week) then I shower three times in a day. Morning, before going out for dinner and then before I go to bed.

What crime am I guilty of for this highly suspect behaviour??

Ah, the non sequitur.

As if that cancels anything out.

 

[Bill Williams]

Ah, the non sequitur.

As if that cancels anything out.

Isn't that supposed to be "sequitor non"?

 

[LondonJohn]

It could be a 'putative" budgerigar stain.

The police could see by looking at it (it glowed under flourescence) that it was a vaseline stain. Vaseline glows under a black light.

If you knew anything about biology, you'd know spermatozoa only live any length of time in the fallopian tubes. Those that fail to reach the safe haven die very quickly.

To get DNA from spermatozoa, you'd need to extract the DNA from the spermatozoa head. Not much use if it is all dried up and shrivelled away.

In any case, Vaseline kills spermatozoa.

You do know the perps delayed the body being found for a considerable amount of time.

Raff expressed great concern the forensics would identify the spermatozoa as his and that was why the defence carefully declined from requisitioning a spermatozoa test.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497315300508

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2305050013600585

"If you knew anything about biology" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[LondonJohn]

Isn't that supposed to be "sequitor non"?

I will argue to the death that it's just as normal to write "sequitur non" as "non sequitur". Latin is an inflected language, you see. You're so ignorant!!

But anyhow, all this is something of a sequitur non in itself, I suppose. Back to the Mez Kercher murder discussion!

 

[Stacyhs]

Just when I thought you could never surprise me, you do.

"Police are trained never to ascribe motive or presume to know what someone is thinking, when giving evidence." Excuse me, but exactly where did I say otherwise?

No, "police" did not say she smelled like an alley cat...and why the need for such hyperbole? That she smelled like sex was claimed by ONE reporter and his source was never identified. Odd how this never made it into any police testimony just like the "warm" washing machine story. Amanda's hair appears clean in the pictures, as does she. No one said her hair was dirty. Filomena, Laura, Paola, Marco, and Luca never claimed Amanda smelled or had body odor of any kind on Nov 2. Why is that? None of Meredith's English friends, who were with her at the police station on Nov 2/3, said she smelled or appeared dirty. Why is that? Yet you believe she didn't shower because some unidentified "policeman" allegedly told this a reporter? LOL.

You claim to know when and why she "concocted her bathmat story" yet you have no evidence of this. You don't know when she first told her lawyers anything.

No, I don't claim to know her bathroom habits but you do since you were the one who claimed showering 3 times in 36 hours was suspect. By the way, what is your source that she showered 3 times in 36 hours? According to her and Rafaelle, she showered the morning of Nov 1 at her apartment and again the morning of Nov 2, again at her apartment. It's customary to shower/bathe once a day in the US. Maybe British women aren't as scrupulous about their hygiene and don't shower daily, especially after sex?

As for why she called her mother and Raffaele calling the police, I go by what they said...that and logic. Why on earth would Amanda call the police when she spoke only very basic Italian and Raffaele was right there? The police even admitted they had to go though Raffaele at the scene because they couldn't understand Amanda's broken Italian. Or do you think it was somehow more logical for someone who didn't speak the language to call and report a missing person and robbery instead of a native speaker who could communicate? Is that a "rational thinking process" for you?

<sigh> You are attributing motives and emotions to Amanda, which a police officer trained in the UK would never do, when giving evidence based on his notes. Just stick with the objective incontrovertible facts.

Amanda was very conceited about her Italian so how probable is it, 'She was too shy to call the police'

Amanda and Raff could not even remember if they had sex, but remembered in detail the cotton bud behind the ears. (Source: email home to all.)

You make a lot of assumptions.

For a start, Finns have been having saunas for thousands of years (fact) and thus have always been cleaner than any other nation, including England's Queen Elizabeth I, who was said to NEVER have washed.

"It's customary to shower/bathe once a day in the US." ROFL.

Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.

I don't wish to be priggish, but details of your sex life is far too much information for us. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Amanda's hair did not look freshly washed. It was as dry as a bone, despite her claim her hair-drying was rudely interrupted by the sight of Rudy's floaters.

Quote where I have "attributed emotions" to Amanda?
If you think that pointing out the logic of Raff calling the police rather than Amanda, then, yes, that is a motive... a very logical one. I asked you for a logical reason she would have called and you come back with some nonsense about police never assigning motives and emotions. Classic avoidance tactic.

As for sticking to the "objective incontrovertible facts", do you mean like Amanda stinking like an alley cat, mixed blood, Amanda bleeding profusely, the "blood" found in Filomena's room, the scratches on Amanda and Raffaele,and all the other "facts" you've presented?

"Amanda was very conceited about her Italian so how probable is it, 'She was too shy to call the police'"

Wow. Now isn't that you assigning an emotion and motive to Amanda? No one here has said she was conceited about her Italian or too shy to call the police.

"Amanda and Raff could not even remember if they had sex, but remembered in detail the cotton bud behind the ears. "

What has that got to do with what we're discussing? It's just another diversion attempt.

What have the Finns, their saunas, and Elizabeth I have to do with the bathing habits of Americans? Another attempt to muddy the waters with irrelevant nonsense.
As an American, I think I know pretty well what the bathing habits of middle class women here are. But even if I didn't, Amanda and Raff themselves stated that Amanda had gone home to shower both the morning of Nov 1 and 2. I'm sorry if you find bathing at least once a day, and especially after sex, somehow unusual.
"Priggish" is not a word I would associate with you (no prig would mention "floaters"). Not with your penchant for assigning "sexual excitement" to a woman replacing her underwear while on her period and imagining Amanda and Raffaele having "sex over Meredith's dead body" when there is no, absolutely no, supporting evidence. Maybe that's a cultural thing?

Regarding Amanda's hair being dry, yes, it was. Hair will do that in a couple hours which is the amount of time between her washing it and the arrival of the postal police. Or does hair somehow take longer to dry in England?

I see you simply ignore the fact that no one who was there mentioned Amanda looking unwashed or smelling. No one. Typical.

 

[Bill Williams]

I will argue to the death that it's just as normal to write "sequitur non" as "non sequitur". Latin is an inflected language, you see. You're so ignorant!!

But anyhow, all this is something of a sequitur non in itself, I suppose. Back to the Mez Kercher murder discussion!

I cannot even pick a fight with you..... must be that bloody English reserve!

 

[Bill Williams]

Quote where I have "attributed emotions" to Amanda?
If you think that pointing out the logic of Raff calling the police rather than Amanda, then, yes, that is a motive... a very logical one. I asked you for a logical reason she would have called and you come back with some nonsense about police never assigning motives and emotions. Classic avoidance tactic.

As for sticking to the "objective incontrovertible facts", do you mean like Amanda stinking like an alley cat, mixed blood, Amanda bleeding profusely, the "blood" found in Filomena's room, the scratches on Amanda and Raffaele,and all the other "facts" you've presented?

"Amanda was very conceited about her Italian so how probable is it, 'She was too shy to call the police'"

Wow. Now isn't that you assigning an emotion and motive to Amanda? No one here has said she was conceited about her Italian or too shy to call the police.

"Amanda and Raff could not even remember if they had sex, but remembered in detail the cotton bud behind the ears. "

What has that got to do with what we're discussing? It's just another diversion attempt.

What have the Finns, their saunas, and Elizabeth I have to do with the bathing habits of Americans? Another attempt to muddy the waters with irrelevant nonsense.
As an American, I think I know pretty well what the bathing habits of middle class women here are. But even if I didn't, Amanda and Raff themselves stated that Amanda had gone home to shower both the morning of Nov 1 and 2. I'm sorry if you find bathing at least once a day, and especially after sex, somehow unusual.
"Priggish" is not a word I would associate with you (no prig would mention "floaters"). Not with your penchant for assigning "sexual excitement" to a woman replacing her underwear while on her period and imagining Amanda and Raffaele having "sex over Meredith's dead body" when there is no, absolutely no, supporting evidence. Maybe that's a cultural thing?

Regarding Amanda's hair being dry, yes, it was. Hair will do that in a couple hours which is the amount of time between her washing it and the arrival of the postal police. Or does hair somehow take longer to dry in England?

I see you simply ignore the fact that no one who was there mentioned Amanda looking unwashed or smelling. No one. Typical.

Don't miss Vixen's stunning display of logic when you said that Knox's hair had been dyed, and if Amanda's hair had been found it would be readily id'ed as dyed.....

.... Vixen said, "not all hair gets dyed." Stunning, clock-stopping logic.

 

[Stacyhs]

Not every hair necessarily gets bleached.

LOL! Is that the best you can do? It looks pretty much the same color all over to me with a bit of grow out at the roots. And it looks clean, too.

url=http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=31891]

[/url]

 

[Stacyhs]

Please point me to where she mentions the 'bathmat shuffle' in her very detailed email home, to everybody in her address book, 3rd Nov 2007. No, that story only came later, after consulting with her brief.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Email_Home

Let me get this straight. Because, in an email home, she didn't mention using the bathmat to get into her room while she was dripping wet because she had no towel, it means that it didn't happen at all? Why would she mention such a non-important detail? She didn't mention calling her mother at 12:47 either. Are you suggesting this never happened because it's not mentioned in her email?

 

[Stacyhs]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497315300508

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2305050013600585

"If you knew anything about biology" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, now, LJ! Vixonian science says it's impossible to get DNA from "dried up" spermatozoa. Whom are we to believe? Vixen or actual lab test results?

 

[Vixen]

Isn't that supposed to be "sequitor non"?

Non is a prefix, and thus goes at the front of a word.

 

[Vixen]

Quote where I have "attributed emotions" to Amanda?
If you think that pointing out the logic of Raff calling the police rather than Amanda, then, yes, that is a motive... a very logical one. I asked you for a logical reason she would have called and you come back with some nonsense about police never assigning motives and emotions. Classic avoidance tactic.

As for sticking to the "objective incontrovertible facts", do you mean like Amanda stinking like an alley cat, mixed blood, Amanda bleeding profusely, the "blood" found in Filomena's room, the scratches on Amanda and Raffaele,and all the other "facts" you've presented?

"Amanda was very conceited about her Italian so how probable is it, 'She was too shy to call the police'"

Wow. Now isn't that you assigning an emotion and motive to Amanda? No one here has said she was conceited about her Italian or too shy to call the police.

"Amanda and Raff could not even remember if they had sex, but remembered in detail the cotton bud behind the ears. "

What has that got to do with what we're discussing? It's just another diversion attempt.

What have the Finns, their saunas, and Elizabeth I have to do with the bathing habits of Americans? Another attempt to muddy the waters with irrelevant nonsense.
As an American, I think I know pretty well what the bathing habits of middle class women here are. But even if I didn't, Amanda and Raff themselves stated that Amanda had gone home to shower both the morning of Nov 1 and 2. I'm sorry if you find bathing at least once a day, and especially after sex, somehow unusual.
"Priggish" is not a word I would associate with you (no prig would mention "floaters"). Not with your penchant for assigning "sexual excitement" to a woman replacing her underwear while on her period and imagining Amanda and Raffaele having "sex over Meredith's dead body" when there is no, absolutely no, supporting evidence. Maybe that's a cultural thing?

Regarding Amanda's hair being dry, yes, it was. Hair will do that in a couple hours which is the amount of time between her washing it and the arrival of the postal police. Or does hair somehow take longer to dry in England?

I see you simply ignore the fact that no one who was there mentioned Amanda looking unwashed or smelling. No one. Typical.

You are a master at changing context. I can see why you are not a barrister.

 

[Vixen]

Let me get this straight. Because, in an email home, she didn't mention using the bathmat to get into her room while she was dripping wet because she had no towel, it means that it didn't happen at all? Why would she mention such a non-important detail? She didn't mention calling her mother at 12:47 either. Are you suggesting this never happened because it's not mentioned in her email?

In a court of law chronology is important. I stated that Amanda did not mention the bath mat shuffle until she was appraised by her lawyers of what forensics had found, and the story of the bathmat shuffle was born. Planigale demanded a primary source and I pointed to Amanda's own email home.

Amanda did deny she rang her mother. Another claim that was disproved by phone logs, yet Amanda insisted in repeating the lie in Waiting to be Heard.

Your problem is that you think dreaming up clever 'counter arguments' in knee-jerk fashion passes as sound logic, when in fact, it's meaningless. A court wants the objective facts and it will be the best judge as to what the motives, attributions and thoughts are.

 

[Vixen]

Don't miss Vixen's stunning display of logic when you said that Knox's hair had been dyed, and if Amanda's hair had been found it would be readily id'ed as dyed.....

.... Vixen said, "not all hair gets dyed." Stunning, clock-stopping logic.

Top legal attorney, Stacyhs, claims it cannot have been amanda's hair as it was blond and Amanda's was only dyed.

No evidence the hair was or wasn't dyed, but Ironside Perry Mason Stacyhs asserts we should marvel at her: stunning, clock-stopping logic.

Like Amanda, if Stacey says a thing, why, it becomes true!