Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Planigale said:
You have boasted about how you go to primary sources. (Although you refused to disclose your primary source the body placement emulating Manga fantasy.) So how about the primary source for the two highlighted facts?

Can you give a primary source for a police witness describing Knox as smelling like an alley cat on the morning of the 2 November?

Can you give a primary source for police crime scene investigators finding evidence of someone shuffling around on a cloth?
You have stated two facts, surely you can give the primary reference for these facts? Or is this just your own invention?
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Prof. Vinci discovered blood on underside of bathmat which gives absolute credence to Amanda's story of doing a bathmat 'shuffle' to her room to retrieve a bath towel. Guede had already used those available in small bathroom. Unbeknownst to Amanda. Have to wonder what prints she disturbed on that wee floor surfing exercise.
 
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Annella said:
Prof. Vinci discovered blood on underside of bathmat which gives absolute credence to Amanda's story of doing a bathmat 'shuffle' to her room to retrieve a bath towel. Guede had already used those available in small bathroom. Unbeknownst to Amanda. Have to wonder what prints she disturbed on that wee floor surfing exercise.
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Of course Vixen's claim was the police investigators found the evidence. Not that (like the putative semen stain) there was relevant evidence that the police investigator's missed because rather than examining the mat they merely examined photos of the top surface of the mat. Surprising how much critical evidence Vinci discovered!
 
Planigale said:
Of course Vixen's claim was the police investigators found the evidence. Not that (like the putative semen stain) there was relevant evidence that the police investigator's missed because rather than examining the mat they merely examined photos of the top surface of the mat. Surprising how much critical evidence Vinci discovered!
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Your claim it was a 'semen stain' is pure conjecture. Vinci was criticised heavily for trying to bend evidence in favour of the defence.
 
Vixen said:
Your claim it was a 'semen stain' is pure conjecture. Vinci was criticised heavily for trying to bend evidence in favour of the defence.
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Professor Vinci's report is a wee ways down the linked page. Do yourself a favor Vixen, study it well and recall any semen stain you may have seen sometime in your life. If you were ever that lucky. I shall link to Vinci's credentials if I am still about.


http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/failed-sexual-assault-investigation/

Italian link to Vinci's CV. https://translate.google.co.nz/tran.../Professor-Francesco-Vinci-CV.pdf&prev=search

So let people who may stumble upon this conversation form their own opinion huh? Here for posterity. But I would welcome CV's from all those you support Vixen. Stefanoni and Co. When you are ready of course.
 
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Vixen said:
Your claim it was a 'semen stain' is pure conjecture. Vinci was criticised heavily for trying to bend evidence in favour of the defence.
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................. sez the nut who believes that the convicting judges occasionally threw something the defence's way, not because of the evidence but just because they did not want to be hard on the kids.

Do you know that Judge Nencini speaks positively of Vinci? Nencini cites Vinci as bringing to a close any consideration that the Nike print found at the scene was Raffaele's.

I suppose Nencini was just throwing one Vinci's way.
 
Annella said:
Professor Vinci's report is a wee ways down the linked page. Do yourself a favor Vixen, study it well and recall any semen stain you may have seen sometime in your life. If you were ever that lucky. I shall link to Vinci's credentials if I am still about.


http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/failed-sexual-assault-investigation/

Italian link to Vinci's CV. https://translate.google.co.nz/tran.../Professor-Francesco-Vinci-CV.pdf&prev=search

So let people who may stumble upon this conversation form their own opinion huh? Here for posterity. But I would welcome CV's from all those you support Vixen. Stefanoni and Co. When you are ready of course.
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Don't hold your breath.

Vixen tried here to pawn off a random comment by Nencini, about something that Nencini had read in Prof. Novelli's testimony. Vixen tried to pawn this off as Novelli's "peer-reviewed" support of Stefanoni and her forensic-DNA chops.

How did Nencini quote Novelli? By noting that Novelli reiterated - as do every other peer-reviewed forensic-DNA expert does - that multiple amplifications are a requirement of proper protocol. Then Nencini cites Novelli as saying that operator-experience can sometimes balance out this deficiency.

I've looked - nowhere does either Nencini or Novelli say that Stefanoni meets that (sub-)standard. So from the lone reference that Vixen would even risk we're left with......

...... Stefanoni did not follow standard protocol. One can infer from this that Stefanoni, then, drew conclusions which she ought not have concluded.

Rather than criticize the technician, the Marasca/Bruno section of the Italian Supreme Court criticized Judge Nencini himself, for substituting himself for independent third-party, forensic-DNA expertise. Nencini had chided and criticized Conti-Vecchiotti and their independent debunking of Stefanoni's work.

Then Marasca/Bruno basically asked: on what grounds? They said that Italian judges still have the responsibility to ground their judicial-decisions on independent, expert renderings - not "just because I'm the judge."

So M/B annulled Nencini's convictions, and exonerated the pair.

So, Annella, when you say, "I would welcome CV's from all those you support Vixen. Stefanoni and Co. When you are ready of course," Vixen has been asked many times, has evaded and then gone silent.
 
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Vixen is excellent at avoiding answering questions. I've asked several that she still has not addressed. The latest is the hair she brought up implying they were Amanda's. She has failed to address the fact that Amanda's hair was dyed blonde and these hairs were not identified as being dyed which is very easy to see under a microscope.
 
Planigale said:
Of course Vixen's claim was the police investigators found the evidence. Not that (like the putative semen stain) there was relevant evidence that the police investigator's missed because rather than examining the mat they merely examined photos of the top surface of the mat. Surprising how much critical evidence Vinci discovered!
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Vixen said:
Your claim it was a 'semen stain' is pure conjecture. Vinci was criticised heavily for trying to bend evidence in favour of the defence.
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Did you miss Planigale's use of the word "putative"? That it was a semen stain in generally accepted.
Can you give one logical explanation why testing a suspected semen stain, found underneath a sexual assault and murder victim, would be denied by the courts? I can't.
 
Stacyhs said:
Did you miss Planigale's use of the word "putative"? That it was a semen stain in generally accepted.
Can you give one logical explanation why testing a suspected semen stain, found underneath a sexual assault and murder victim, would be denied by the courts? I can't.
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Can Vixen give a reason why the substance would not be determined and identity discovered before the weekend was over? Before even the interrogations?

I can't.
 
Vixen said:
Your claim it was a 'semen stain' is pure conjecture. Vinci was criticised heavily for trying to bend evidence in favour of the defence.
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Do you understand the meaning of the word 'putative'? I specifically said, "the putative semen stain" this references that the stain was never tested to confirm its nature, because the prosecution refused to permit this.

Ninja'd.
 
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Vixen said:
Your claim it was a 'semen stain' is pure conjecture. Vinci was criticised heavily for trying to bend evidence in favour of the defence.
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so about those references from the police finding evidence for the bath mat being slid on? The reference for a police witness saying Knox smelt like an alley cat?

You boasted of going to primary sources so share them.

That you cannot come up with sources, makes me think that these are inventions of your own fevered mind. These fantasies tell us more about your morbid psychology and less about the truth of what happened on November1 all those years ago.
 
Planigale said:
so about those references from the police finding evidence for the bath mat being slid on? The reference for a police witness saying Knox smelt like an alley cat?

You boasted of going to primary sources so share them.

That you cannot come up with sources, makes me think that these are inventions of your own fevered mind. These fantasies tell us more about your morbid psychology and less about the truth of what happened on November1 all those years ago.
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I think it bears repeating that Filomena, Marco, Paola, Luca, or any of Meredith's English girlfriends ever mentioned Amanda smelling or having any body odor whatsoever on Nov 2-3. Neither did Mignini, Napoleoni, Zugarini, or any other identified police who were with Amanda.
 
I wish there was a way to find out if something actually new is going on with the ECHR case instead of this thread being flooded with arguments with Vixen.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Just when I thought you could never surprise me, you do.

"Police are trained never to ascribe motive or presume to know what someone is thinking, when giving evidence." Excuse me, but exactly where did I say otherwise?

No, "police" did not say she smelled like an alley cat...and why the need for such hyperbole? That she smelled like sex was claimed by ONE reporter and his source was never identified. Odd how this never made it into any police testimony just like the "warm" washing machine story. Amanda's hair appears clean in the pictures, as does she. No one said her hair was dirty. Filomena, Laura, Paola, Marco, and Luca never claimed Amanda smelled or had body odor of any kind on Nov 2. Why is that? None of Meredith's English friends, who were with her at the police station on Nov 2/3, said she smelled or appeared dirty. Why is that? Yet you believe she didn't shower because some unidentified "policeman" allegedly told this a reporter? LOL.

You claim to know when and why she "concocted her bathmat story" yet you have no evidence of this. You don't know when she first told her lawyers anything.

No, I don't claim to know her bathroom habits but you do since you were the one who claimed showering 3 times in 36 hours was suspect. By the way, what is your source that she showered 3 times in 36 hours? According to her and Rafaelle, she showered the morning of Nov 1 at her apartment and again the morning of Nov 2, again at her apartment. It's customary to shower/bathe once a day in the US. Maybe British women aren't as scrupulous about their hygiene and don't shower daily, especially after sex?

As for why she called her mother and Raffaele calling the police, I go by what they said...that and logic. Why on earth would Amanda call the police when she spoke only very basic Italian and Raffaele was right there? The police even admitted they had to go though Raffaele at the scene because they couldn't understand Amanda's broken Italian. Or do you think it was somehow more logical for someone who didn't speak the language to call and report a missing person and robbery instead of a native speaker who could communicate? Is that a "rational thinking process" for you?
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Oh dear!!! I shower twice a day and if I go out for dinner (which is about 3 times a week) then I shower three times in a day. Morning, before going out for dinner and then before I go to bed.

What crime am I guilty of for this highly suspect behaviour??
 
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Mike1711 said:
Oh dear!!! I shower twice a day and if I go out for dinner (which is about 3 times a week) then I shower three times in a day. Morning, before going out for dinner and then before I go to bed.

What crime am I guilty of for this highly suspect behaviour??
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I rarely - if ever - shower or bath at all. And I recently brutally murdered my beautiful, high-flying house mate (US = room mate) of whom I'd grown insanely jealous. How does THAT work....? :p
 
LondonJohn said:
I rarely - if ever - shower or bath at all. And I recently brutally murdered my beautiful, high-flying house mate (US = room mate) of whom I'd grown insanely jealous. How does THAT work....? :p
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I'm not saying this is me and neither am I claiming it isn't. But serial homicide is best after a sauna.
 
Bill Williams said:
I'm not saying this is me and neither am I claiming it isn't. But serial homicide is best after a sauna.
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Oh just the one brutal slaying sufficed for me.

And I'd have got away with it too, if it hadn't been for the homeless drug addict/dealer with messianic delusions and a history of feeding the police information for favours, who saw me out and about on the night of the murder when I'd told the police I'd been inside my apartment all night..... and the manager of my local convenience store who was miraculously able to remember after an entire year had elapsed that not only had I made an unremarkable visit to his store on the morning after the murder (when, again, I'd told the police I'd been in my apartment), but also exactly what I'd been wearing, my eye colour, and the direction I'd been heading when I left his store (and all that after saying he didn't recognise me at all when the police visited him soon after the murder).

I mean, I know some people say they seem to get more bad luck than most others, but really, this level of bad luck really takes the biscuit!!
 
Stacyhs said:
Just when I thought you could never surprise me, you do.

"Police are trained never to ascribe motive or presume to know what someone is thinking, when giving evidence." Excuse me, but exactly where did I say otherwise?

No, "police" did not say she smelled like an alley cat...and why the need for such hyperbole? That she smelled like sex was claimed by ONE reporter and his source was never identified. Odd how this never made it into any police testimony just like the "warm" washing machine story. Amanda's hair appears clean in the pictures, as does she. No one said her hair was dirty. Filomena, Laura, Paola, Marco, and Luca never claimed Amanda smelled or had body odor of any kind on Nov 2. Why is that? None of Meredith's English friends, who were with her at the police station on Nov 2/3, said she smelled or appeared dirty. Why is that? Yet you believe she didn't shower because some unidentified "policeman" allegedly told this a reporter? LOL.

You claim to know when and why she "concocted her bathmat story" yet you have no evidence of this. You don't know when she first told her lawyers anything.

No, I don't claim to know her bathroom habits but you do since you were the one who claimed showering 3 times in 36 hours was suspect. By the way, what is your source that she showered 3 times in 36 hours? According to her and Rafaelle, she showered the morning of Nov 1 at her apartment and again the morning of Nov 2, again at her apartment. It's customary to shower/bathe once a day in the US. Maybe British women aren't as scrupulous about their hygiene and don't shower daily, especially after sex?

As for why she called her mother and Raffaele calling the police, I go by what they said...that and logic. Why on earth would Amanda call the police when she spoke only very basic Italian and Raffaele was right there? The police even admitted they had to go though Raffaele at the scene because they couldn't understand Amanda's broken Italian. Or do you think it was somehow more logical for someone who didn't speak the language to call and report a missing person and robbery instead of a native speaker who could communicate? Is that a "rational thinking process" for you?
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<sigh> You are attributing motives and emotions to Amanda, which a police officer trained in the UK would never do, when giving evidence based on his notes. Just stick with the objective incontrovertible facts.

Amanda was very conceited about her Italian so how probable is it, 'She was too shy to call the police'

Amanda and Raff could not even remember if they had sex, but remembered in detail the cotton bud behind the ears. (Source: email home to all.)

You make a lot of assumptions.


"It's customary to shower/bathe once a day in the US." ROFL.

Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.

I don't wish to be priggish, but details of your sex life is far too much information for us. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Amanda's hair did not look freshly washed. It was as dry as a bone, despite her claim her hair-drying was rudely interrupted by the sight of Rudy's floaters.
 
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