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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017

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Well there is a lot more to be done,- Rom was not drunk on one day.

Bjarne, I strongly suggest that you do not try to translate lame Danish jokes unless you are sure they work in English. This one doesn't.

I will continue to make that aspect more digestible.

I think your aspect is already quite sufficiently digested.:rolleyes:

Hans
 
The best possible way to scientific test that part of the theory is; - flyby manure.


I've followed Bjarne's threads for 7 or 8 years now and often wondered why I bother. But to see this made made all that time worthwhile. I have not laughed so hard or long in many years.



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This reveals you haven't read the theory...

Actually what it shows is that you don't read what you write.

Now very short....

Special Relativity.

No relativistic effect will take place when moving straight north, - (relative to ecliptic) but the opposite will be the case.

Great so there will be no time dilation and length contraction when "moving straight north, - (relative to ecliptic)" at relativistic speeds. Also there will be no limit to speed increase as momentum increases. As those are all "relativistic effect"s. This should be easily testable. Why haven't we seen that yet?


One parameter to measure this is time dilation.
Instead of expected faster time, a clock will instead tick faster.
This is because relativistic transformation is a process, where both matter and space is involved.


Uhm, "faster time" means "a clock will" "tick faster".

So just in your first two paragraphs we have a lack of general consistency (your assertions don't agree with observations) and a lack of self-consistency (your assertion just don't agree with themselves).

Again it is your asserted deliberate avoidance of detail that is your own worst enemy. You need to put in the work to maintain consistency and focus on the details.


Again why should anyone even bother with your assertions when in just a matter of a few sentences they don't agree with observations and don't even agree with themselves?
 
I've followed Bjarne's threads for 7 or 8 years now and often wondered why I bother. But to see this made made all that time worthwhile. I have not laughed so hard or long in many years.



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Well, it is quite telling in a rather Freudian sort of way.
 
I've followed Bjarne's threads for 7 or 8 years now and often wondered why I bother. But to see this made made all that time worthwhile. I have not laughed so hard or long in many years.



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Well spotted! Bjarne's contribution to science, in one line.

Hans
 
Wait seriously? First you bemoan the 'insanity' of energy "converted to a expression". Then you assert "Potential energy and true kinetic are always" converted to the expression "M" "(Mass)". Again please get back to us when you can at least agree with just yourself. Again if you don't like something then don't do it yourself. If you oppose converting energy to some other expression then don't insist on converting energy to some other expression like, well, mass.

Actually it was Maxwell's equations that showed EM radiation was a transverse as opposed to a longitudinal wave. It didn't need any aether just the electromagnetic field. "the Michelson-Morley-experiment" was just another nail in a coffin already well built.

Hans let’s say you have eat too much by MC Donald and your weight is +30 kilo, and let’s say you live in the top of the skyscraper. Both elevator is down today you have to take the stairs.. Its dame hard, you need a lot of ENERGY to get hope.
WHERE does that energy go.. – You can be satisfied to say ahh it’s now just potential energy. Well correct, - BUT what is THAT and what in hell have potential energy to do with E=Mc^2
The Mass f your body MUST increase on you way up the stairs, - it’s a mathematical fact not only an expression.
 
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You need to do more work than name dropping a few equations you don't understand on a skeptics website to convince anyone of anything.

OK wait a little, I will as i said make the GR consequence of the theory little more digestible and easy
 
You just referred to algebra as "kindergarten math." This is the same math you earlier claimed you'd need to get a computer science degree to do.

You also appear to think the paragraph above is sufficient to meet the need for mathematical equations sufficient to overthrow relativity.

I love how when asked to provide the equations yourself they're too difficult for modern technology, but when you're asking someone else to do your work for you this incredibly difficult math transmutes through alchemical means into "kindergarten math."

So, what inputs should I feed into the Lorentz Equation and what outputs should I be getting? You seem to think that name dropping equations is enough to support your theory. It's not. You have to actually show your work, compare and contrast, provide concrete experiments that could demonstrate the accuracy of your theory.

You keep asking me to do the work you should have already done to support your theory. If I actually sit down and do that, I'm gonna publish my own damn paper with the actual equations. Since you've done none of the actual work to support your theory your contribution at this point has been a vague idea. I doubt it would even be worth mentioning you in my paper.


You are absolutely right...
During many years I was not sure, or rather confused, - whether the full range of the theory would have any impact of GR. As I wrote before, the theory has its own logic. I can only follow the main thread (so good I can) to see where it leads me..

Since I realized the necessity to add GR modification to the theory few months ago I was not quite happy with it (so fare). – I knew some understanding (and maybe math) was missing.

A few months I thought it would to be very complicated to program software that could combine modified GR effect and Newtonian orbit math. But these last few days I considered if there was an easy way to tackle this, - and yes it is.

So I reconsidered the mathematical consequences of GR modification the last few days. I have to say I overlooked a simple consequence, even though I many years was fully aware of that this must mean a modification of Newtonian Gravity (which I now see is enough to throw “ the curvature of space speculation” - on the junkyard) ..
Serveral years I just simply forgot to implement that simply fact to the consequences of the theory.. lazy? - no, - the theory have so many thread, if was long time focused on some of these thread but not all.

Shortly spoken the theory have different angles of perspective, and therefore today when it is crystal clear to me that there are at least 2 approaches to why a modification of GR is necessary , it will off course also be easier to communicate what the necessary modification of GR is about.

Understanding is important, - therefore before going any further red this..

‘A’ live in the basement of a skyscraper, ‘B’ at the top of the same building.
Both have measured the time it took a photon to travel 13 billion. from the very first star and to us..
But A’s clock (deeper in the gravitational field) is as we know ticking slower than B’s clock.

B would argue that it took the photon one minute longer to reach us – than the time A has measured. Simply because B’s clock is ticking faster than the A’s watch. The difference is probably in reality less, but it means nothing , its the same point.

We accept that the speed “c” is the same for both A and B.
When both A and B know the time and speed, A and B can only conclude that either the distance to the star that emitted photon is significantly different, which is utopian, because the universe is not likely to change shape depending on the observer who observes a process.

Otherwise, the conclusion can only be that A’s ruler (in the basement) must have changed (been longer) proportional to the time also been stretching, as a result of A’s watch is deeper in the gravitational field.

Only in this way A and B both can assert that ‘c’ is the same for both (even thou ‘c’ is not comparable the ‘same’..

This thought experiment was written here at the forum , several time, first time for I think 7 years ago, - and now it shows this is the easiest way to explain why the so called "curvature of space" is not necessary and also not the cause of gravity..

I believe you can already understand which mathematical consequences this will have.. as well why objects approaching close to a heavy object will speed up more as expected. ?

If not let me guide you, - a simple modification to Newtonian math is necessary – because the ruler is a proportional relativistic variant.
And this will be pretty simple math, - so no advanced software is necessary.
 
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Bjarne,

Please can you help me?

If these theories are going to go wrong soon, how come they've apparently been working up to know?

Test space probe flying North relative to ecliptic, is perfect to detect unexpected SR anomalies.
I am afraid that only flyby test probes are able to show why GR is the wrong theory for gravity, at least these are the best.
 
Great so there will be no time dilation and length contraction when "moving straight north, - (relative to ecliptic)" at relativistic speeds.
Time will tick slower than expected, - not faster, - notice we are only speaking about the SR influence..

Also there will be no limit to speed increase as momentum increases.
Seen from a absolute point of view , no.

As those are all "relativistic effect"s. This should be easily testable. Why haven't we seen that yet?
Because so fare no test have been ddone.
 
Bjarne,

Please can you help me?

If these theories are going to go wrong soon, how come they've apparently been working up to know?



If you want the real answer it's because he doesn't realize they have. Go back and take a look, for example, at his argument in defense of an elastic ether. He is woefully ignorant of the massive body of technology that would not function if his theories, such as they are, had legs. He seems to sincerely believe there's a single experiment that upset the apple cart.

This also is why he thinks one experiment can upset relativity. He doesn't understand how science functions in the real world and how it's a process of continual refinement. He honestly does not realize his lazy, piss-poor theorizing with a non-existent mathematical backbone is never going to cause a paradigm shift.

He has a Hollywood image of science.

science_montage.png
 
Hans let’s say you have eat too much by MC Donald and your weight is +30 kilo, and let’s say you live in the top of the skyscraper. Both elevator is down today you have to take the stairs.. Its dame hard, you need a lot of ENERGY to get hope.
WHERE does that energy go.. – You can be satisfied to say ahh it’s now just potential energy. Well correct, - BUT what is THAT and what in hell have potential energy to do with E=Mc^2
The Mass f your body MUST increase on you way up the stairs, - it’s a mathematical fact not only an expression.

Nope, if you think "it’s a mathematical fact" then you work out and show us that math. Actually what happens when you burn food is that chemical potential energy is often just converted to heat. That's why the energy in food is usually given in calories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie

However, in doing work against gravity, climbing, the body also gains greater gravitational potential energy relative to where it was before (it becomes less negative). The net result in that case is zero change in potential energy, chemical potential energy is simply exchanged for gravitational potential energy. Do the math.
 
Nope, if you think "it’s a mathematical fact" then you work out and show us that math. Actually what happens when you burn food is that chemical potential energy is often just converted to heat. That's why the energy in food is usually given in calories.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie



However, in doing work against gravity, climbing, the body also gains greater gravitational potential energy relative to where it was before (it becomes less negative). The net result in that case is zero change in potential energy, chemical potential energy is simply exchanged for gravitational potential energy. Do the math.



Ohhh! SNAP!
 
Time will tick slower than expected, - not faster, - notice we are only speaking about the SR influence..

So you misspoke yourself when you said "No relativistic effect will take place.."?

Seen from a absolute point of view , no.

Great so we should be able to accelerate objects to and beyond the speed of light "from a absolute point of view". Why don't we find that to be the case?

Because so fare no test have been ddone.

Tests at relativistic speeds are being done all the time in circular accelerators, linear accelerators, heck electrons in a typical tube TV can be moving at .25 c (for 17kV).
 
Hans let’s say you have eat too much by MC Donald and your weight is +30 kilo, and let’s say you live in the top of the skyscraper. Both elevator is down today you have to take the stairs.. Its dame hard, you need a lot of ENERGY to get hope.
WHERE does that energy go.. – You can be satisfied to say ahh it’s now just potential energy. Well correct, - BUT what is THAT and what in hell have potential energy to do with E=Mc^2
The Mass f your body MUST increase on you way up the stairs, - it’s a mathematical fact not only an expression.

If I were to eat at McD, I would actually loose weight since I hate the stuff they sell. ..Nevermind...

As somebody already explained, doing work to climb stairs is going to make you loose weight. The carbohydrates you burn to get the energy will turn into CO2 and water. You will exhale the CO2 and sweat and evaporate the water.

Your always wacky practical examples aside, what if we take a 1 kg weight and hoist or carry it to the top floor of a large building? Will it gain weight?

No it will not gain weight. (Weight is the the strength with which gravity pulls at an object in its actual position.) Since it is now a little farther from the Earth's center of gravity, it will actually weigh a little less. A good precision scale will be able to measure that.

Will it gain mass, then? (Mass is independent of the current gravity field.) No it will not gain mass. How about the potential energy, then? Well, potential energy resides in the system. When it is positional energy, as in this case, the system includes two objects, with a gravity field between them. The objects are the 1 kg weight, and Earth. Together, they will have gained a little bit of mass, but there will be no way you can see or measure any effect on the weight.

Read and understand, Bjarne, and you will actually be a little wiser.

Hans
 
The objects are the 1 kg weight, and Earth. Together, they will have gained a little bit of mass, but there will be no way you can see or measure any effect on the weight.

But only if the energy to lift the 1kg came from outside the system.
 
So you misspoke yourself when you said "No relativistic effect will take place.."?
"No expected relativistic effect will take place.."

Great so we should be able to accelerate objects to and beyond the speed of light "from a absolute point of view". Why don't we find that to be the case?
How did you come to such conclusion ?

Tests at relativistic speeds are being done all the time in circular accelerators, linear accelerators, heck electrons in a typical tube TV can be moving at .25 c (for 17kV).
In this case a particle is connected to a magnetic field; - it’s a very different kind of phenomena that can't be compared.
 
‘A’ live in the basement of a skyscraper, ‘B’ at the top of the same building.
Both have measured the time it took a photon to travel 13 billion. from the very first star and to us..
But A’s clock (deeper in the gravitational field) is as we know ticking slower than B’s clock.

B would argue that it took the photon one minute longer to reach us – than the time A has measured. Simply because B’s clock is ticking faster than the A’s watch. The difference is probably in reality less, but it means nothing , its the same point.

We accept that the speed “c” is the same for both A and B.
When both A and B know the time and speed, A and B can only conclude that either the distance to the star that emitted photon is significantly different, which is utopian, because the universe is not likely to change shape depending on the observer who observes a process.

Otherwise, the conclusion can only be that A’s ruler (in the basement) must have changed (been longer) proportional to the time also been stretching, as a result of A’s watch is deeper in the gravitational field.

Only in this way A and B both can assert that ‘c’ is the same for both (even thou ‘c’ is not comparable the ‘same’..

In a somewhat circumspect way, you trying to describe exactly what GR says. However, there are some problems with your example:

1) A and B cannot observe the same photon. You can only observe a photon by converting it to some other form of energy. So, at best, A and B are observing two different photons that were emitted from the same place, at the same time.

2) However, those two photons did not follow the same path. On reached B, the other reached A, deeper in the gravity well. The difference in time dilation between the two will exactly outweigh the different in the clocks.

3) It is indeed true that A's clock and B's clock will not run to the exact same time, but it would take centuries for the difference to be measurable.

This thought experiment was written here at the forum , several time, first time for I think 7 years ago,

Yes you did post it several times, and every time the faults were explained to you. Now try again: Read and understand, and you will become wiser.

If not let me guide you, - a simple modification to Newtonian math is necessary – because the ruler is a proportional relativistic variant.
And this will be pretty simple math, - so no advanced software is necessary.

GR is a modification to Newtonian math. There is no need to invent a new one, because GR explains it perfectly.

Hans
 
But only if the energy to lift the 1kg came from outside the system.

Absolutely correct, but I'm afraid we need to defer that to lesson #2. .. Which comes whenever Bjarne has comprehended lesson #1 (better not hold you breath...)

Hans
 
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