General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[HDenier]

Wrong again...

Most labor workers were foreigners (Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Frenchs, Belgians, a.o.) deported to Germany (representing more than 7 millions people) and POWs (mainly French ones, as the Wermacht let 3.5 millions of Soviet POWs die from starvation, illness and bad treatments).

According to some figures computed after the war there were about 11millions of displaced persons in Germany, mainly forced workers of foreign origin and to a much lesser extend POWs form various origins.

Almost no Jews were to be found in Germany anymore.

Gee...then you are admitting another point then, the Jews were found far and in-between, thus being, that these stories of MILLIONS, hundreds of thousands "Jews" is just pure bunk, thank you for bringing this to my attention....

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[HDenier]

None of us are Jewish.

Who are the us then?

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[LemmyCaution]

The buildings were deloused...not used as gas chambers EVER...stop being so technical.....

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So you are now withdrawing this claim - "Not a molecule can be found on the walls"? And refusing to tell us why we should believe you about the reports I linked to?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Gee...then you are admitting another point then, the Jews were found far and in-between, thus being, that these stories of MILLIONS, hundreds of thousands "Jews" is just pure bunk, thank you for bringing this to my attention....

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Uh, no, by late 1944-1945 over 5 million Jews from across Europe were dead. Not working in KLs, in factories, or on farms.

 

[HDenier]

So you are now withdrawing this claim - "Not a molecule can be found on the walls"? And refusing to tell us why we should believe you about the reports I linked to?

These building for those who are not critical zealots were NEVER used as homicidal gas chambers. As has happened in the whole camp network to keep out disease, ALL buildings would have been deloused. IF there was a molecule there it was only because all the buildings had the same molecule. There were no homicidal gas chambers...period...If van Pelt was and is right, 99% of the Holocaust can't be proven because you have no proof. Go argue those figures and see if you win in a righteous court for your 1% of evidence....
If it wasn't for the typhus epidemics NO buildings other than planned buildings for fumigation would have had any blue staining unless some fumigated bedding came to rest in it for some reason and the critical zealots are making a big issue out of it here.

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[LemmyCaution]

These building for those who are not critical zealots were NEVER used as homicidal gas chambers. As has happened in the whole camp network to keep out disease, ALL buildings would have been deloused. IF there was a molecule there it was only because all the buildings had the same molecule.

You need to re-read Leuchter's report. The boldfaced comments in my post referred to Kremas - the buildings in which you wrote that not one molecule of HCN was found. Do you wish to withdraw and correct your comment - or persist in falsehood? (This - "because all the buildings had the same molecule" - is a mighty powerful molecule, btw!)

Do you plan to keep ignoring my request that you show us proof of what you wrote about the materials I linked to? If you fail to provide explanation and evidence, I fail to see why I or anyone should believe you.

 

[HDenier]

Lemmy, I really don't give two craps if you believe anything I say. You are a nitpicker, you just make trouble by quoting your copious holohoax BS with the zeroes added whenever Jews come into the equation. I posted what I posted, there were no homicidal gas chambers, buildings would all eventually come under a critical bug spray notice for fumigation and those totally devoted to fumigation had even blue staining going through the bricks to the other side of the wall.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12

. Its getting tiresome. Nobody died in any homicidal gas chamber, no Jews were made into soap ad there was no holocaust until the Jews found out they could make themselves world victims and make money from it....Sometimes I feel that a lot of poster here are posting from a mental hospital somewhere in New York City with a dozen uneaten bagels and twenty packs of cigarettes fumigating the air. The building I will always refer to was the one across from the SS office. If I wasn't plain then that's the only thing I will apologize for. You can fight over any other presumed building or in some cases buildings that they say were gas chambers but are now demolished, how quaint. Apparently those must be the 99% of the Holocaust....

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Please do not suggest that any other poster is mentally ill. Be civil and polite and refrain from personalising your posts. Address the arguments, do not attack posters.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha

 

[Elagabalus]

...This happens when we come out with information that can't be faulted....

Your information has been discredited here many times. In fact, you have refused to look at any evidence showing that you are mistaken. Why am i not surprised?

....This happens all the time. When it finally happens,....then we win...

Declaring victory? How sweet. Is this the final withering?

...I only got on this list to be able to post my opinions, unfortunately when I post my opinions I get a lot of side talk of being an anti-semite, a racist a hater, a bigot, and the list goes on and on...

You don't think saying that you hate the Jews makes you an Anti-semite or a rascist?

...is this clear or are we going to act like12 year olds?

ooh, da' irony.

 

[trustbutverify]

Lemmy, I really don't give two craps if you believe anything I say. You are a nitpicker, you just make trouble by quoting your copious holohoax BS with the zeroes added whenever Jews come into the equation. I posted what I posted, there were no homicidal gas chambers, buildings would all eventually come under a critical bug spray notice for fumigation and those totally devoted to fumigation had even blue staining going through the bricks to the other side of the wall.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12

Its getting tiresome. Nobody died in any homicidal gas chamber, no Jews were made into soap ad there was no holocaust until the Jews found out they could make themselves world victims and make money from it....Sometimes I feel that a lot of poster here are posting from a mental hospital somewhere in New York City with a dozen uneaten bagels and twenty packs of cigarettes fumigating the air. The building I will always refer to was the one across from the SS office. If I wasn't plain then that's the only thing I will apologize for. You can fight over any other presumed building or in some cases buildings that they say were gas chambers but are now demolished, how quaint. Apparently those must be the 99% of the Holocaust....

For those who don't speak Nazi, I'll translate:

I got savagely clobbered trying to convince intelligent, well informed forum members the Holocaust never happened.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12

 

[LemmyCaution]

Lemmy, I really don't give two craps if you believe anything I say.

Just assuring you that you are convincing no one. If that makes you irritable, I am sorry, but you are posting unsupported fantasy material and others including me are showing the errors, biases, false assumptions, poor argument, and fallacies in your thinking.

You are a nitpicker

That's called paying attention to evidence. You know, what you repeatedly fail to use.

you just make trouble by quoting your copious holohoax BS with the zeroes added whenever Jews come into the equation.

Do you have something in mind? If so, feel free to share it. As it is, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I posted what I posted, there were no homicidal gas chambers,

No, that is not what you posted. What you posted is this:

Your links are nonsense. Not a molecule can be found on the walls, means, it never was there in the first place. These excuses are getting to be laughable.

I've shown you that Fred Leuchter himself says that there were small quantities where you wrote that "Not a molecule can be found . . ."

buildings would all eventually come under a critical bug spray notice for fumigation and those totally devoted to fumigation had even blue staining going through the bricks to the other side of the wall.

Is this your way of admitting you were wrong when you wrote that "Not a molecule can be found on the walls . . ."

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove response to moderated content

Nobody died in any homicidal gas chamber, . . . there was no holocaust until the Jews found out they could make themselves world victims and make money from it.

Among many other points I could make, let me remind you that a number of us have shown you that reports and evidence for the mass murder of the Jews began to be accumulated at the time the mass murder began. This is not nitpicking; it is reminding you that you keep repeating points that have been thoroughly dealt with.

The building I will always refer to was the one across from the SS office. If I wasn't plain then that's the only thing I will apologize for.

You said no such thing. You said that the information in the material I linked to was "nonsense," and you know that the material linked to was not about a building across from the SS office. You and I also know full well which buildings Leuchter sampled - and that you were wrong when you posted that "Not a molecule can be found on the walls" of these buildings.

 

[Ivanesca]

Do thee scientist ever give their story and mention they we involved in a "final solution" before they came to the USA? I doubt it because there was never a final solution in the first place. I have no problem agreeing that these people were treated differently and protected but they were never part of any "final solution" unless you can prove it to me.....

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Arthur Rudolph did not deny abusing prisoners at Dora. And Hugertus Strughold did not deny that medical experiments on prisoners. The CIA knew as early as the fifties that Otto Von Boslchwing was connected with Eichmann's office, and that he was responsible for implementing anti Jewish laws and helping in Romanian anti Jewish massacres, and hired him anyway.

It's over. Your "hoax" is made up crap. These men were all employed and protected by the US government and had every opportunity to deny the murders you refuse to accept. After all, the US government had shown them that they were more important in their eyes than some Jews. These men spoke about their wartime experiences and war crimes anyway, of their own free will, because it happened.

America did not fake the Holocaust. All of the documents talking about the final solution in American custody are genuine, and all of those who talked about Nazi crimes did so of their own free will. Paperclip proves once and for all that Jews don't control the USA, fake lists from Diane King notwithstanding. I don't care what you think counts as "proof"

 

[LeoMajor]

The buildings were deloused...not used as gas chambers EVER...stop being so technical.....

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Use your head, do you delouse a morgue twice or three times a day? And why is it heated up constantly? Morgues are kept at cool temperatures for a reason. Admit that the description of "corpse cellar" was inaccurate.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Don't know how to search?

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm

If this is the standard level of comprehension among the Holocaust deniers, I'm not at all surprised they've fallen for the denialist's claims.

As was pointed out earlier, these are not 109 countries. The list consists of 108 locations (mostly cities) that have expelled Jews over 1,700 years. Yes, there are only 108 entries; either the person putting the list together miscounted or one place got lost when the list was posted to the site.

Not only that, but many locations are listed more than once because they had periodic fits of paranoia over the Jews and expelled them on more than one occasion. After trimming out the duplicates, I ended up with 71 locations. Of these, 46 are probably individual cities or limited regions—my knowledge of the political boundaries of medieval Europe tends to be a bit fuzzy.

Of these cities, and indeed the larger territories and countries, the vast majority at the times of the expulsions appear to be under the control of adherents to the Roman Catholic church. For centuries the Catholic Church's doctrine was Jews were the enemies of Christianity, as it was the Jews that had Jesus put to death. (Conveniently they ignored the fact the Romans actually carried out the execution, and that Christ's death and subsequent resurrection were the reason for the church in the first place! Doctrinally, all Christians are "responsible" for Christ's death, and by the same token all are beneficiaries of it and of his resurrection.)

The Holocaust deniers in the thread have hinted that the Jews were responsible for their expulsions because of what they had been doing in those places. I say that's not the case. The Jews were expelled probably for political reasons that had little to do with what they were up to and much more to do with the simple fact they were Jews. And quite possibly because they refused to give up Judaism and convert to Christianity.

 

[Ivanesca]

If this is the standard level of comprehension among the Holocaust deniers, I'm not at all surprised they've fallen for the denialist's claims.

As was pointed out earlier, these are not 109 countries. The list consists of 108 locations (mostly cities) that have expelled Jews over 1,700 years. Yes, there are only 108 entries; either the person putting the list together miscounted or one place got lost when the list was posted to the site.

Not only that, but many locations are listed more than once because they had periodic fits of paranoia over the Jews and expelled them on more than one occasion. After trimming out the duplicates, I ended up with 71 locations. Of these, 46 are probably individual cities or limited regions—my knowledge of the political boundaries of medieval Europe tends to be a bit fuzzy.

Of these cities, and indeed the larger territories and countries, the vast majority at the times of the expulsions appear to be under the control of adherents to the Roman Catholic church. For centuries the Catholic Church's doctrine was Jews were the enemies of Christianity, as it was the Jews that had Jesus put to death. (Conveniently they ignored the fact the Romans actually carried out the execution, and that Christ's death and subsequent resurrection were the reason for the church in the first place! Doctrinally, all Christians are "responsible" for Christ's death, and by the same token all are beneficiaries of it and of his resurrection.)

The Holocaust deniers in the thread have hinted that the Jews were responsible for their expulsions because of what they had been doing in those places. I say that's not the case. The Jews were expelled probably for political reasons that had little to do with what they were up to and much more to do with the simple fact they were Jews. And quite possibly because they refused to give up Judaism and convert to Christianity.

Pretty much, yes. But, I have to ask though. Do we still need to answer these type of questions or "arguments"? It's quite clear that HDenier, Rizoli and King are blaming the victims for their persecution. It honestly seems as if these "arguments" HD/R/K make are self defeating.

 

[threadworm]

The ADL is a very corrupt organization that if history serves me right they gave a "Torch of Liberty Award" to a notorious Jewish mob figure called Moe Dalitz back in 1982. The ADL opinions to me are worthless, and yes the ADL is totally Jewish....They are very powerful even to the point where my towns own police department was dependant on them...
http://www.framingham-police.org/steve-carl-and-the-adl.html

I don't see anything in that article saying that your police department needs the ADL for anything? It didn't cost you as a local tax payer anything. Your sole objection is that he's a Jew and he went to Israel to learn what happens when people who hate Jews aren't exposed.

They have been front line against our free speech. ..

http://archive.boston.com/yourtown/news/framingham/2009/11/adl_tv_host_town_official_busi.html

So people, is the ADL powerful or just a nothing..lol...

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Exposing the Rizoli's little TV project for its vile hatemongering is stifling free speech? It hasn't silenced it has it? It's still spewing its vile racist ignorance all over every media it can get its hands on.

But wait, Framingham you say? Why what a coincidence. Is that you Joe? Do we have a family show here tag-teaming with each others' tablets? Are the other new contributors to this topic in on game as well? Because if all of you are in the same 'Concerned Citizens' and 'League of Extraordinary Revisionists' groups this seems less like a a free flowing internet discussion and more like an organised and coordinated campaign.

 

[HDenier]

This is far from being 109 countries...



What is always so amazing with deniers is to realize how difficult for them to stick to simple facts. Here 109 locations become 109 countries with no serious check of historical data and facts...

If you are a Jew then be proud of these 109 get the hell outs..lol
Doesn't say much for the Jews does it?

 

[HDenier]

http://www.skepticforum.com/download/file.php?id=4619



Homicidal Gas chambers are documented. There are documents talking about "Special Vans" using "Bottles of Carbon Monoxide", a "Vergasungskeller", and how a cellar had "gas tight doors" and "showerheads". The Soviets conducted autopsies at Kharkov and Krasnodar and identified the cause of death as Carbon Monoxide poisoning, while an internal German Autopsy was carried out on gassing victims at Stuthoff. Traces of HCN were found at Auschwitz and Majdanek, confirming the exposure to Zyklon B. Some witnesses saw these from a distance and mistakenly assumed that Electricity was the method used. The judges at war crime trials weighed the evidence carefully and found that Gas is the most plausible means of murder based on the evidence. The others (electricity and atomic) bombs were mistaken, based on isolated bits of evidence compared to the multiple converging streams of evidence for gas chambers and were therefore irrelevant. Which is why the findings of fact and the Court Judgement at the IMT mentioned gas as the means of killing.

Shower heads the flow gas and water, tooooo funnnnyyy

 

[HDenier]

I don't see anything in that article saying that your police department needs the ADL for anything? It didn't cost you as a local tax payer anything. Your sole objection is that he's a Jew and he went to Israel to learn what happens when people who hate Jews aren't exposed.



Exposing the Rizoli's little TV project for its vile hatemongering is stifling free speech? It hasn't silenced it has it? It's still spewing its vile racist ignorance all over every media it can get its hands on.

But wait, Framingham you say? Why what a coincidence. Is that you Joe? Do we have a family show here tag-teaming with each others' tablets? Are the other new contributors to this topic in on game as well? Because if all of you are in the same 'Concerned Citizens' and 'League of Extraordinary Revisionists' groups this seems less like a a free flowing internet discussion and more like an organised and coordinated campaign.

No, this was done for a lot of local police, I just liked one example, don't be an idiot. My point was that the ADL has a has a huge impact on most towns, they are the primary in betweens against bullying and all sorts of things like this.
Apparently you must live on an island and you must not be near any people LOL

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[HDenier]

Just assuring you that you are convincing no one. If that makes you irritable, I am sorry, but you are posting unsupported fantasy material and others including me are showing the errors, biases, false assumptions, poor argument, and fallacies in your thinking.


That's called paying attention to evidence. You know, what you repeatedly fail to use.


Do you have something in mind? If so, feel free to share it. As it is, I have no idea what you're talking about.


No, that is not what you posted. What you posted is this:
I've shown you that Fred Leuchter himself says that there were small quantities where you wrote that "Not a molecule can be found . . ."


Is this your way of admitting you were wrong when you wrote that "Not a molecule can be found on the walls . . ."

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove response to moderated content

Among many other points I could make, let me remind you that a number of us have shown you that reports and evidence for the mass murder of the Jews began to be accumulated at the time the mass murder began. This is not nitpicking; it is reminding you that you keep repeating points that have been thoroughly dealt with.


You said no such thing. You said that the information in the material I linked to was "nonsense," and you know that the material linked to was not about a building across from the SS office. You and I also know full well which buildings Leuchter sampled - and that you were wrong when you posted that "Not a molecule can be found on the walls" of these buildings.

And you know what I was thinking...lol.... you gotta remember 99% of what you believe is false... you can thank Van Pelt for that comment.

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[HDenier]

Uh, no, by late 1944-1945 over 5 million Jews from across Europe were dead. Not working in KLs, in factories, or on farms.

Here we go with the zeros again and the killing factories blab blab blab complete nonsense.

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