General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Degeneve]

The Jews got what they deserved. They've been kicked out of 109 countries....

Could you provide us with a list of these countries. Just curious to know...

 

[Degeneve]

What decent human being would chose to put others of the same religion to death or be part of their death when confronted with either you do it or you die scenario? A Jew.

No reputable Christian would ever chose to put a fellow Christian to death or be part of the death process.

Never heard of the European wars of religion, then?

 

[threadworm]

The Jewish workers were more despicable that the Nazis they claim killed them.
No Christian would have ever made that choice...but a Jew did....to defend these actions and make excuses is even more despicable. Honorable people would never act in this manner but the Jewish Workers did and bragged about it and today collect holohoax monies as a reward..shame on you all including our own Boston's Stephen Ross, Mr smothered man...

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What religion do you suppose your average nazi would say they adhered to do you think? The ones with the guns firing the bullets? Would you call yourself a Christian, as someone saying that Jews got what they deserve? Someone who so blatantly does not follow any kind of Christian teachings?

 

[Ivanesca]

From what I can see deniers are falling into the habit of other conspiracy theorists and pick away at details they don't *think* add up to a holocaust.

What I don't see is anybody presenting a finished theory to best explain the totality of evidence. Who conceived of this hoax. Who arranged the evidence. Why we have archaeological evidence. Who scripts and orchestrates the testimony, and how... Who went back and planted the population data that suggested millions of people went missing, etc.

The idea of a smoking gun is silly. History rarely works like that. (And the denier argument is looking less and less like an attempt to explain historical events in any meaningful way.)

Building their hoax narrative would force them to confront what actually happened. That is, how the US hired Nazis as scientist and spies, and how they loosened the requirements for denazification and allowed ex Nazis to serve in the German government afterwards. How the Russians buried the Holocaust by supressing the Jewish identity of the victims and the anti Jewish nature of the killings. And how the West Germans dragged their heels in prosecuting Nazis and gave them slaps on the wrists. And how they just gave each survivor about 600, 400 or even $100, meaning the "extortion racket" never happened. They want to avoid the reality that there was no hoax.

 

[Tomtomkent]

What decent human being would chose to put others of the same religion to death or be part of their death when confronted with either you do it or you die scenario? A Jew.

No reputable Christian would ever chose to put a fellow Christian to death or be part of the death process. These stories don't make any Jew look honorable. You should be glad I am skeptical about all the Sonnacamando stories

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Then history suggests that there have rarely been "reputable" Christians. History is littered with Protestants and Catholics setting each other to death, declaring war, assuming their version of Jesus was a little more valid than another. One of the crusades was about Christians squabbling over who had a more divine right to territory. Ireland was invaded by the English because (prereformation) the English did not believe the Irish was Catholic enough.

Even AFTER the holocaust there were Christian folks in America who considered themselves reputable as they engaged in violence against fellow Christians of the wrong skin colour.

 

[HDenier]

What religion do you suppose your average nazi would say they adhered to do you think? The ones with the guns firing the bullets? Would you call yourself a Christian, as someone saying that Jews got what they deserve? Someone who so blatantly does not follow any kind of Christian teachings?

The Jews have been kicked out of over a hundred and nine countries there must be a reason why this has happened the only country that has not kicked the Jews out has been the United States of America, unfortunately or fortunately for us Germany ask the Jews to leave because they ruined the country. The Weimar Republic was wrapped in filth back in the twenties and thirties and a lot of it had to do with the Jews and their view point of morality and what they let come into the country, people don't understand that the United States of America is in the exact same position that Weimar Germany before Hitler took power we are suffering the same consequences. That Weimar Germany suffered, so you tell me if the Jews have anything to do with the country and its morality.

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[Tomtomkent]

Building their hoax narrative would force them to confront what actually happened. That is, how the US hired Nazis as scientist and spies, and how they loosened the requirements for denazification and allowed ex Nazis to serve in the German government afterwards. How the Russians buried the Holocaust by supressing the Jewish identity of the victims and the anti Jewish nature of the killings. And how the West Germans dragged their heels in prosecuting Nazis and gave them slaps on the wrists. And how they just gave each survivor about 600, 400 or even $100, meaning the "extortion racket" never happened. They want to avoid the reality that there was no hoax.

Quite possibly. But if they are here to discuss, then the onus is on them to persuade us. The least I can do is tell them what is required for me to weigh their claim as a serious possibility. At the moment they wont convince because the totality of evidence weighs against them. Individual nits being picked will not lighten the body of evidence. For a theory to work, it has to address the full body of evidence.

As distasteful as I find their claims I will give it fair innings at the crease. But at the moment they wont even set the wicket on the stump.

 

[Tomtomkent]

The Jews have been kicked out of over a hundred and nine countries there must be a reason why this has happened the only country that has not kicked the Jews out has been the United States of America, unfortunately or fortunately for us Germany ask the Jews to leave because they ruined the country. The Weimar Republic was wrapped in filth back in the twenties and thirties and a lot of it had to do with the Jews and their view point of morality and what they let come into the country, people don't understand that the United States of America is in the exact same position that Weimar Germany before Hitler took power we are suffering the same consequences. That Weimar Germany suffered, so you tell me if the Jews have anything to do with the country and its morality.

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Congratulations. You have proven to know little of the real failings of the Weimar republic. More importantly you have learned little from history.

This, by the way, is how the Freikorps convinced themselves that violence and brawls on the streets were a good thing.

 

[Degeneve]

Here we go with the racist bigoted crap now. You sure you're not violating the rules of his forum.. LOL

Remember that you're personally attacking me saying I am a "racist bigot". I consider that accusation slander and defamatory and I think you should apologize for it. if you know what I did for a living you would be totally embarrassed.

Noticing a fact is cannot be defamatory.

You should take information about the Faurisson v. Badinter French court case. Robert Badiner, a former French Minister of Justice (who among others abolishe capital punishment in France), once said in public that Faurisson is "a falsifier of history". Faurisson decided to sue him before a French court for deffamation.

Guess who lost the case...

In substance the court aknowledged that Faurisson was indeed a falsifier of history and relased Mr. Badinter from the charges.

 

[Ivanesca]

One million Jewish soldiers earned Iron crosses fighting for Germany in World War I. Even the SS knew to exercise discretion when bumping off Jewish WWI vets.

German Jews have done more for Germany, before and after the Holocaust, than the likes of HDenier ever will.

 

[Tomtomkent]

So... A poster foes not want to be a racist bigot. But hey, if other countries mistreated a race of people, then it is okay to repeat the same old lies. Odd... As the "evidence" for the corruption of the republic relied heavily upon the notion that was what Jews were like, rather than actual evidence of wrong doing. The document cited often was the Protocols of The Elders Of Zion, something that had been shown to be a hoax itself (through actual historic evidence by the way). The claims only retain credence at the moment with those who insist Jew and Socialist are synonyms and try to present the Socialist and Communist movements as Jewish. Which entirely misses the point of those movements...

 

[Degeneve]

Which is it, when the Holocaust people give their stories they give their stories from their recovered memories Elizabeth Loftus shows that some of these stories are not true.

I think that you do not even understand the substance of Elizabeth Loftus' work. You have probably read one of your fellow deniers evoking Loftus and you believe it applies to all holocaust memories. Therefore you're repeating like a parrot that holocaust stories are recovered memories.

We have already explained to you that most of the holocaust stories are backed up by written (nazi) documents, archeological finding and by reports issued by persons (often not even Jews) issued during wartime (i.e. which means there cannot be "recovered memories" as they where issued while the event was taking place).

But apparently you did not even bother to read them or, more precisely, you decided to ignore them, showing once more that "debating" with deniers is a waste of time.

The evidences proving the material reality of the holocaust are overwhelming but you have decided to believe it is a hoax and you are not able to provide even the beginning of a proof.

 

[threadworm]

The Jews have been kicked out of over a hundred and nine countries there must be a reason why this has happened the only country that has not kicked the Jews out has been the United States of America, unfortunately or fortunately for us Germany ask the Jews to leave because they ruined the country. The Weimar Republic was wrapped in filth back in the twenties and thirties and a lot of it had to do with the Jews and their view point of morality and what they let come into the country, people don't understand that the United States of America is in the exact same position that Weimar Germany before Hitler took power we are suffering the same consequences. That Weimar Germany suffered, so you tell me if the Jews have anything to do with the country and its morality.

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Not an answer to my question, just more racist babble.

 

[HDenier]

There were no homicidal gas chambers. No Jews to soap, no Jews to wallets or lampshades, no Jews killed by head bashing machines No Jews killed by atomic bombs no Jews electrocuted no Jews put on a conveyor belt and killed no Jews lived within 10 feet have a crematorium, and lastly the whole holohoax narrative.

The most devastating observation on the credibility of these holocaust yarn-spinners was made by a Judaic sociologist sixty years ago:
"...most of the memoirs and reports [of 'Holocaust survivors'] arefull of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks...”
--Samuel Gringauz, "Jewish Social Studies" (New York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65.

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[Degeneve]

Here we go with the stupid lies that say that Germans killed the Jewish workers because they don't want other people to see what they were doing what complete nonsense.
Why would the Germans care if anybody saw what they were doing? But now all of a sudden you're telling us that the Germans have a conscience,? All you holohoaxers state that the Germans were a killing machine, why would they care who saw them?

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Because murders do not want to be caught. Therefore they try to make disappear the evidences of their crimes and sometime even the corpses of their victims. This is a well know fact and this does not mean that the murders have a conscience.

As a matter of fact the firsts attempts to make the proves of the holocaust disappear started in the second half ot 1942 with operation 1005 and extended until the end of the war.

Beside it was also Himmler's will not to disclose information about the holocaust outside of a very small number of persons. Never heard about the Posen speeches ?

am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It's one of those things that is easily said: 'The Jewish people are being exterminated', says every party member, 'this is very obvious, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it, hah, a small matter.' And then they turn up, the upstanding 80 million Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. They say the others are all swines, but this particular one is a splendid Jew. But none has observed it, endured it. Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when there are 500 or when there are 1,000. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person — with exceptions due to human weaknesses — has made us tough, and is a glorious chapter that has not and will not be spoken of. Because we know how difficult it would be for us if we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and rabble-rousers in every city, what with the bombings, with the burden and with the hardships of the war. If the Jews were still part of the German nation, we would most likely arrive now at the state we were at in 1916 and 17 (Himmler, 4 October 1943)

I ask of you that that which I say to you in this circle be really only heard and not ever discussed. We were faced with the question: what about the women and children? – I decided to find a clear solution to this problem too. I did not consider myself justified to exterminate the men – in other words, to kill them or have them killed and allow the avengers of our sons and grandsons in the form of their children to grow up. The difficult decision had to be made to have this people disappear from the earth. For the organisation which had to execute this task, it was the most difficult which we had ever had. [...] I felt obliged to you, as the most superior dignitary, as the most superior dignitary of the party, this political order, this political instrument of the Führer, to also speak about this question quite openly and to say how it has been. The Jewish question in the countries that we occupy will be solved by the end of this year. Only remainders of odd Jews that managed to find hiding places will be left over. (Himmler, 6 October 1943) - Full text in German : http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.h...translation&st=REDE DES REICHSFüHRGRS SS&l=de

 

[HDenier]

Notice I said "reputable" Christian. Personally I feel that 99.9% of Christianity is apostate.

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[Degeneve]

What religion do you suppose your average nazi would say they adhered to do you think? The ones with the guns firing the bullets? Would you call yourself a Christian, as someone saying that Jews got what they deserve? Someone who so blatantly does not follow any kind of Christian teachings?

Forgive HDenier, Lord, for he knows not what he does nor what he says...

 

[Degeneve]

The Jews have been kicked out of over a hundred and nine countries there must be a reason why this has happened the only country that has not kicked the Jews out has been the United States of America, unfortunately or fortunately for us Germany ask the Jews to leave because they ruined the country. The Weimar Republic was wrapped in filth back in the twenties and thirties and a lot of it had to do with the Jews and their view point of morality and what they let come into the country, people don't understand that the United States of America is in the exact same position that Weimar Germany before Hitler took power we are suffering the same consequences. That Weimar Germany suffered, so you tell me if the Jews have anything to do with the country and its morality.

I have already asked you for a list of these hundred and nine countries. I am still waiting for it...

Another falsified story maybe?

 

[Degeneve]

Notice I said "reputable" Christian. Personally I feel that 99.9% of Christianity is apostate.

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How lucky you are that Christian do no kill apostates anymore...

Officially, at least...

 

[HDenier]

Don't know how to search?