General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Jeffk 1970]

The Jews got what they deserved. They've been kicked out of 109 countries.... Germany went to hell because of the Jews. Hitler only wanted them deported. The Jews turned this all into exterminating.
What else is new.

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Do you actually know anything about the German Jews before Hitler became Chancellor?

Newsflash:
The German Jews were mostly assimilated patriots. Most of them voted for Centrist Parties, not Communist, in fact they were nationalists and conservative.

But, I've told you this before, haven't I?

 

[HDenier]

http://www.bugbitten.com/images/4aa...8926/Auschwitz_Concentration_Camp-603963.jpeg

My spidey sense tells me you'll not accept this one.

What's the point of the picture anyway? Dead people, the question you should be asking is HOW DID THEY DIE....if the picture is real anyway and those railroad people to the right aren't from 1912...

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[HDenier]

If Hdenier is not a Anti Semite, he is giving one hell of a great impersonation of one....

Here we go with the antisemite crap. If I was a real antisemite I wouldn't believe in Jesus Christ....

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[Jeffk 1970]

What's the point of the picture anyway? Dead people, the question you should be asking is HOW DID THEY DIE....if the picture is real anyway and those railroad people to the right aren't from 1912...

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Railroad people? Ah, so you think the photos are fake.

The SS allowed the Sonderkommando at Birkenau to wear regular clothes, HD. A small perk for those pour souls.

 

[HDenier]

Wow. This is so *********** ignorant, I don't know where to start...

Jim's telling the truth here dash80. You can start by not being gullible of the holohoax story in the first place, that's where you can start..

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[LemmyCaution]

So many Jews, so many nonsense unprovable figures...

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This is what I posted:

eaving advanced rhetoric about cults and cute coinages like "Holocauster" aside, you've raised a good point. Where, "OUT of Germany," did the Nazi authorities "get the Jews"?

Bear in mind that a small minority of the Jews affected by the Final Solution were in Germany in the first place, by far the largest numbers of those involved were well out of Germany - in Poland and the USSR.

To focus this question a bit, would you be so kind as to tell us then 1) where were nearly 300,000 Jews from Warsaw gotten to during summer-fall 1942, and how you know (FYI Eric Hunt has admitted he doesn't know and asked deniers to help him with this problem), 2) to what "other places" were over 50,000 Jews from Vilnius, in Lithuania, taken during summer-fall 1941, and what evidence you base your view on, 3) where about 80,000 Jews from Lodz were taken during 1942, and how you know this, and 4) where about 75,000 French Jews and 100,000 Dutch Jews were taken during the war, and the evidence also for this? Thank you, LC

Which figures do you dispute? On what ground do you dispute the figures?

You should be aware that German estimates for the number of Jews living in Warsaw ghetto roughly match what I've posted above about Warsaw, and German estimates for Vilnius actually have more Jews disappearing from that city . . . and that for the Netherlands I also used German counts . . .

 

[HDenier]

I will not reply to any post by either brother that makes mention of ''bug spray'', ''six million in gas chambers'' or ''120 foot high piles of clothes''. We have shown the untruth of these sayings to them time and time and time again and they persist in wilful ignorance.

Good...
Bug spray, bug spray.....six million lies, 120 foot piles of clothes...

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[LemmyCaution]

Hunts video was excellent...

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You simply repeated your approval but 1) didn't tell us why you approve or 2) explain what you think was wrong with the critique of the video made in the links I posted.

Repeating that you like something is not an argument for why others should agree.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Assuming of course that Rizoli is telling the truth.

Is there evidence that one should make this assumption?

 

[HDenier]

His long post utterly misses the point - and fails to comprehend that using social science methodology Gringauz studied something very different to what HDenier thinks: Gringauz studied the organization of and life in the ghettos during "the great catastrophe" brought by the German occupation. His aim was to understand how Jews sustained and organized themselves during the catastrophe, including resisting the Germans.

Through wishful thinking, cherrypicking, and rote repetition, these guys hope to turn Gringauz's call for rigorous methodology, which scholars practice, into a condemnation of the very sorts of scholarly works that the call for rigor inspired.

By the way, in his 1949 article, Gringauz wrote of the ghettos that in them "the conditions were . . . determined by a policy of persecution, defamation and annihilation." According to Gringauz, his methodology showed that "the ghetto [was] one of the forms of mass destruction in the great Jewish catastrophe of 1939-45, which initiated the liquidation of the East-European era of Jewish history." ("The Ghetto as an Experiment of Jewish Social Organization" in Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 11, No. 1, Jan., 1949, pp. 3-20).

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised to see these guys praising Gringauz to the skies. It just shows that it helps to actually read what you cite. But whatever.

Gringuaz then didn't go far enough, the ghettos were run by the Judenrats.

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[LemmyCaution]

No, the issue is you (and Jim and Diane) START with the Holocaust is a hoax without any proof of said hoax. You have no real answers, you simply force the narrative to the conclusion you want, rather than allowing the history to speak for itself. For example, if this was a real line of inquiry you would want to find out what happened to the Jews if they didn't die. Instead, Holocaust deniers shy away from this kind of inquiry because it is a dead end.

His admission of his utter and complete ignorance of the historical scholarship has, however, helped us pinpoint one problem in this discussion.

 

[LemmyCaution]

That Antisemite crap is a Jew thing.

Is that why the Nazis described themselves as anti-Semites?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

.... see what David Irving thinks. He's good at smelling a rat.

"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," he told the court, referring to comments he made in Austria in 1989.

"In no way did I deny the killings of millions of people by the Nazis."
David Irving.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4730832.stm

 

[HDenier]

Nonsense. These topics are covered in histories of the camps. In context.

They birth 3000 babies, then they kill babies, which is it?

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[HDenier]

Stangl was describing the chaotic scene of the Treblinka camp during the tome Eberl was commandant. This abs ben known for decades. No, there was not money literally up to his kneecaps but the message remains utterly unscathed.

So we can pick and chose now the nonsense from the facts..lol

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[LemmyCaution]

The Jews got what they deserved. They've been kicked out of 109 countries.... Germany went to hell because of the Jews. Hitler only wanted them deported. The Jews turned this all into exterminating.
What else is new.

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Still dodging the questions I asked you.

Once again, you cite no particulars and no evidence, and provide no explanation. You are basically reiterating your strongly held but baseless beliefs. Which is your prerogative but is not relevant in a skeptics' discussion, where evidence and rational argument are the core of what takes place.

 

[HDenier]

What decent human being would chose to put others of the same religion to death or be part of their death when confronted with either you do it or you die scenario? A Jew.

No reputable Christian would ever chose to put a fellow Christian to death or be part of the death process. These stories don't make any Jew look honorable. You should be glad I am skeptical about all the Sonnacamando stories

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[Matthew Ellard]

Viktor Suvorov
Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War?
Translated from the Russian by Thomas B. Beattie
London: Hamish Hamilton, 1990

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/icebreaker.pdf

JR

The Penguin Publishing group will be calling you soon.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

His admission of his utter and complete ignorance of the historical scholarship has, however, helped us pinpoint one problem in this discussion.

One problem????



I see a minimum of three!!

Seriously, though, if you and Nick keep adding books to the list of things I want to read I'll never catch up!

 

[LemmyCaution]

Gringuaz then didn't go far enough, the ghettos were run by the Judenrats.

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The Jewish Councils were under the control of and had to answer to the Germans; they received their orders from the Germans. At times, when Council members didn't enforce German orders or didn't enforce them to German liking or enforced them too slowly - or at other times when the Germans wanted to show who was in charge, the executed members of the Jewish Council.

This sort of situation is what Gringauz was discussing when he wrote that "the conditions were . . . determined by a policy of persecution, defamation and annihilation."