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General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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Zundel was set up by you know who....

LeoMajor said:
on either this page or the previous one I mentioned maybe five titles, none of which you have read. Do you even pay attention? it was in a direct reply tow you. So five for me, two for you. If this was a prizefight they would stop it right here and give me the winnings.

"Jewish run court" lol. The trial judge in Zuendels trial was not Jewish and there is only one Jewish justice on the Supreme Court as of this moment.
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The Zundel trial was brought on totally by the Jews. Don't give me this nonsense that they had no part in it...

They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me?
 
HDenier said:
The Zundel trial was brought on totally by the Jews. Don't give me this nonsense that they had no part in it...

They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me?
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Yes, I am going to disagree with you. The judges in both Zuendel trials were not Jewish, and there is only one Jew on the Supreme court of Canada. These are facts and the facts are indifferent to whining.
 
HDenier said:
Maybe you can explain when the built train tunnels underground that they used Diesel ENGINES....Yet certain "chowderheads" claim these DISEL engines were used to gas hundreds of thousands during their holohoax......oops.......

Anyway, part of the DISEL engine folklore was this piece of laughable nonsense. If I was Jewish I would be embarrassed that I was used here as a pawn for the murder of their own people. What a bunch of lies and nonsense though:

http://www.nazigassin*gs.com/dieselgaschamb*er.html

"Jewish workers on the* other side opened th*e wooden doors. They *had been promised the*ir lives in return fo*r doing this horrible* work, plus a small p*ercentage of the mone*y and valuables colle*cted. The men were st*ill standing, like co*lumns of stone, with *no room to fall or le*an. Even in death you* could tell the famil*ies, all holding hand*s. It was difficult t*o separate them while* emptying the room fo*r the next batch. The* bodies were tossed o*ut, blue,[19]***wet with sweat and ur*ine, the legs smeared* with excrement and m*enstrual blood."

Gee, why aren't these "Jewish workers" brought up on trial for the deaths of these people? Oh wait, let's put a 94 year old camp bookkeeper on trial because he was there.....how ludicrous.

This holohoax narrative as far as I want to make a statement about Jews and their loyalty to money and that they could care about their own Jewish people is as far as I am concerned, a big fat lie.....If it is true then it is not too flattering about the Jews themselves....What an embarrassment to have something like this be part of the holohoax lore from the bowels of the Jewish story themselves, shame shame shame....


Can you imagine anyone of these Jewish Workers getting holocaust reparations today for their part in killing their own people? How embarrassing.

Can you imaging them being in the same room with people giving their testimonies and then realize that THEY the Jewish workers were responsible for getting partial payment for the deaths of their family members, stripping their bodies, getting the gold out of their teeth?
Wow, how would you as a Jew feel about that on both sides of the holocaust victim hood? Both are so called holohoax victims. Hey, you holohaox skeptics claim these stories are true.....I don't...and as much as I would love too use them as FACTUAL HAPPENINGS these stories to me are nonsense.

IF they are true then it tells me how low these "Jewish workers" went to service their own lives over the lives of their fellow Jewish people. ALL these "Jewish Workers" then should be put to death or go to jail. They should NOT be getting ANY monies to so called victims of the holohoax.

You got an embarrassing dilemma here hoaxers? Either the story is TRUE or you have people, "Jewish Workers" participating and part of the most gruesome immoral diabolical killings ever and they are getting paid reparations for it to this day.....PLEASE don't uses the excuse "they were forced to do it or be killed" then the Germans who are going to jail for just being a "bookeeper" shouldn't be going to jail either. These JEWISH WORKERS PARTICIPATED DIRECTLY in the KILLINGS.....or so YOU Hoaxers say.....Talk among yourselves
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HDenier said:
The Zundel trial was brought on totally by the Jews. Don't give me this nonsense that they had no part in it...

They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me?
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Would you describe these freedom-robbing Jews as more Ferengi from TNG, or Mort from Family Guy?
 
HDenier said:
Maybe you can explain when the built train tunnels underground that they used Diesel ENGINES....Yet certain "chowderheads" claim these DISEL engines were used to gas hundreds of thousands during their holohoax......oops.......
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Name just one instance where LC or myself stated that the killings were done with anything but petrol engines.
 
HDenier said:
Mistake, not in your life. That SG quote backed up ALL my research in the holohoax narratives, especially the part False Memory plays in it.... That post made my year, thank you.......SG confirmed EVERYTHING I have been studying for over twenty years, you opened up a gold mine for me.....Can't thank you enough.....
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Your 'research' consists of cut and paste dude......and you are STILL wrong about the GS quote...but keep denying it's fun to watch you do so. lol
 
You didn't read what I said:

"They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me? "

I said NOTHING about the trials or judges. I said PLACES where we try to have free speech...agreed or disagree? This is a PLACE, FACEBOOK is a PLACE, My town NEWSPAPER ONLINE is a PLACE. the Public libraries are a PLACE, my local TV STATION is a PLACE, ALL places where either my free speech has been banned or seriously curtailed because of a certain group of people that have a six pointed star/. I could go on and on
 
HDenier said:
The Zundel trial was brought on totally by the Jews. Don't give me this nonsense that they had no part in it...



They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me?
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Yes, we are going to disagree.

You have the freedom to say whatever you want. You can spout lies, like Zundel.

You however have to accept the responsibility for your words and actions. Zundel never did. Your actions here would indicate that you won't either.
 
HDenier said:
You got an embarrassing dilemma here hoaxers? Either the story is TRUE or you have people, "Jewish Workers" participating
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What?!?!?! What is the embarrassing dilemma? Why should it be embarrassing that Jews were, er, forced to participate? Or do you think we have the view that Jews in the Sonderkommando units generally volunteered to enter the camps and then put their names down for this work? I don't understand why any of us here should be embarrassed by what these men were forced to do - or even by Jewish police or ghetto authorities who did volunteer.
 
HDenier said:
You didn't read what I said:

"They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me? "

I said NOTHING about the trials or judges. I said PLACES where we try to have free speech...agreed or disagree? This is a PLACE, FACEBOOK is a PLACE, My town NEWSPAPER ONLINE is a PLACE. the Public libraries are a PLACE, my local TV STATION is a PLACE, ALL places where either my free speech has been banned or seriously curtailed because of a certain group of people that have a six pointed star/. I could go on and on
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You have been going on. And on. And still you never offer even a jot of proof for any of your claims. Like the ones made in this post. Or previous posts you've made.
 
Connecting the dots....

turingtest said:
Of all the crap memes woosters of all stripes love to throw out, this one is the silliest, the most childish. What- your ideas are immune to skepticism? Are we just supposed to believe what you tell us? Skepticism is a process that begins at home; you treat it as a conclusion synonymous by definition with your own.

But, hey- have at it. As long as you edgy folks have no other presence or influence than the Internet, no harm done. Party on, dude.
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Hans said:
Your 'research' consists of cut and paste dude......and you are STILL wrong about the GS quote...but keep denying it's fun to watch you do so. lol
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What about Elizabeth Loftus and her research about memory, Doesn't have anything to do with the holohoax? Holohoax victims don't have memories?

Her research puts the nail in the coffin plus the Gringauz quotes are superb research materials. No cut and paste here. I've been following Loftus opinions since 1991. Understanding her research on memory is essential to understanding the truths vs lies especially the holohoax lies.

On the Phil Donahue show years ago David Cole and Bradley Smith sat across from a Jewish holohoax member saying she stayed/lived 10 feet from the crematoriums, so close she says that it smelled like "chicken"...Do you think she was telling the truth or was it a false memory? Combine that with Gringauz's comments and now it makes all sense....You guys,gals,its, here connected the dots for me, incredible.....

I really think if this false memory syndrome was pursued to its fullest the holohoax would come apart at the seams. UNFORTUNATELY the major player in the false memory syndrome movement is a Jew.....Elisabeth Loftus, her career would be ruined all because so told the truth........
 
Jews killing Jews, happens all the time, its just normal they say..

LemmyCaution said:
What?!?!?! What is the embarrassing dilemma? Why should it be embarrassing that Jews were, er, forced to participate? Or do you think we have the view that Jews in the Sonderkommando units generally volunteered to enter the camps and then put their names down for this work? I don't understand why any of us here should be embarrassed by what these men were forced to do - or even by Jewish police or ghetto authorities who did volunteer.
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You have people supposedly throwing the switch to the diesel engine, they admit it, they admit being part of the killing machine and that doesn't bother you if you were a Jew? Yikes.....

They were "forced to do" that's laughable.......The Germans were forced to do this too, why can't they get off the hook for these evil acts? One gets off, one gets jail time or death. Just for an ethical stand point, if you defend this then all I can say is yikes.....that is sick....How does one handle a situation where all these holohoaxers get together and one has their family killed, murdered and the other says, hey, I controlled the switch.....toooo funnny......How would that go over? Nobody is forced to do anything.

Jehovah's Witness had more integrity that ANY Jews... This "my life vs their life" is just another instance to cover over the sins of the "Jewish Workers". If they did what they claim then they are despicable people and to defend this in any way......I'll stop here......

Lastly, I don't believe their stories anyway but YOU do......:jaw-dropp
 
Border Reiver said:
Yes, we are going to disagree.

You have the freedom to say whatever you want. You can spout lies, like Zundel.

You however have to accept the responsibility for your words and actions. Zundel never did. Your actions here would indicate that you won't either.
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And, whether HDenier likes it or not, Jewish citizens of Canada also have free speech and other rights, such as the right to file civil or criminal charges for adjudication in the courts.

It is my understanding that the groups that campaigned in Canada against Zündel were spearheaded by Holocaust survivors (e.g., Holocaust Remembrance Association, with one leader being Sabina Citron, a child survivor of Auschwitz). The HRA urged that Zündel be prosecuted for violations of the Canadian Criminal Code (section 177, the so-called false news section). Sabina Citron herself, in December 1983, swore an affidavit against Zündel. Her doing so led to the government prosecuting him, with Crown Attorney Peter Griffiths leading the state's case.

The trial of Zündel took place in an Ontario District Court in Toronto and went forward under Canadian law and trial procedures. The prosecution had to prove that Zündel had violated a specific law, and the defense had the ability to call witnesses, cross-examine prosecution witnesses, review evidence, and argue its case. Again, whether HDenier agrees or not, this is how legal disputes are decided - even when "the Jews" are involved.

Unfortunately for HDenier, after a trial conducted according to Canadian legal norms, on 27 February 1985 a jury - not "the Jews" - found Zündel guilty on the count of spreading false news.

This conviction was appealed in 1988, and the guilty verdict reconfirmed, and then, in 1992 the Canadian Supreme Court declared the “false news” clause to be in violation of the Canadian Charter of Freedoms. The Supreme Court specifically found that the clause endangered free speech and free debate on historical topics.

OTOH, around the time of the start of the Zündel case in Canada, in 1983, West Germany revoked Zündel’s passport on account of his activities having “damaged the reputation and image of the Federal Republic of Germany.” Not "the Jews," but the government of West Germany.

HDenier sounds off about free speech but shows exactly zero awareness of what free speech is, how a government of laws works, what the legal process is, and how claims and counter-claims are decided by courts.
 
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HDenier said:
What about Elizabeth Loftus and her research about memory, Doesn't have anything to do with the holohoax? Holohoax victims don't have memories?
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What about the evidence (cited by Degeneve and me) that has nothing to do with memory, false or otherwise? You've ignored those posts.

With memoirs and recollections, you examine it against other evidence, and for internal consistency, and you reject that which doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Kind of the way courts do all the time with witness testimony. This isn't a mystery.

HDenier said:
the Gringauz quotes are superb research materials.
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Agreed:
LemmyCaution said:
. . . in his 1949 article, Gringauz wrote of the ghettos that in them "the conditions were . . . determined by a policy of persecution, defamation and annihilation." According to Gringauz, his methodology showed that "the ghetto [was] one of the forms of mass destruction in the great Jewish catastrophe of 1939-45, which initiated the liquidation of the East-European era of Jewish history." ("The Ghetto as an Experiment of Jewish Social Organization" in Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 11, No. 1, Jan., 1949, pp. 3-20).

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised to see these guys praising Gringauz to the skies. It just shows that it helps to actually read what you cite. But whatever.
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HDenier said:
They were forced to do this too...No one is forced to do anything
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So, which one is it, no one is forced to do anything? Or The Germans were "forced" to do it too?

HDenier said:
You got an embarrassing dilemma here hoaxers? Either the story is TRUE or you have people, "Jewish Workers" participating
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No dilemma at all. The story is true and Jewish prisoners did serve under extreme duress. Statements describing these events actually increase the overall reliability of such statements, and refute your blethering about false memory syndrome. There's no reason for Jews to "invent" or talk about such narratives unless they were true. If the Jews wanted "to make the Germans look bad" and invented their narratives accordingly, then there's no reason for them to invent or manufacture stories of their ""participation".

I wonder what HDenier thinks about Child Soldiers or Women in the sex trade. He'd probably blame them too.
 
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HDenier said:
You have people supposedly throwing the switch to the diesel engine
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Citations, please. As LeoMajor wrote, neither he nor I, having reviewed evidence, has ever said that the engines used in the Einsatz Reinhard camps were diesel engines.

HDenier said:
they admit it, they admit being part of the killing machine and that doesn't bother you if you were a Jew? Yikes.....
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Citation for Jewish survivors throwing diesel engine switches in death camps, please.

That aside, you've not answered my question: why should what some individuals are forced to do or do by choice embarrass me or anyone else here? Please explain why this should be so. Keep this in mind: In his book Freedom from Fear David M Kennedy documents American atrocities committed in the Pacific during WWII. I am an American. I am not embarrassed that some Americans committed crimes. Some do every day, in fact.

HDenier said:
They were "forced to do" that's laughable
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No, it's the case. You failed to answer what I asked you: do you think that anyone is arguing that the Sonderkommando members generally, on their own volition, found camps to enroll in and signed up for SK duty? How do you think we explain individuals becoming part of the Sonderkommandos?

HDenier said:
The Germans were forced to do this too
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So now you are admitting that the Germans - ones who were forced you say - carried out elements of the crime of mass murder. Ok. Progress.

There are at least two quick answers to the question why Germans can't get off: 1) first, most Germans who participated in running the camps and other such activities did get off, only a small minority have been convicted through the decades, 2) second, if the courts cannot prove their participation, Germans should and will get off.

Last request: please name for us (and give us the circumstances for each) some Germans who you think were forced to participate in war crimes or crimes against humanity and who were convicted of these crimes, in which they participated against their will, after the war.
 
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Believe it or not, there are folks in another HD discussion forum who read this thread. I must say that for the most part, they are chuckling quite a bit. One posted the following comment on "recovered memory," pointing out that the concept is irrelevant to work done by Boder with survivors in 1946, to memoirs, and to testimonies of survivors:
scrmbldggs said:
As Degeneve and Lemmy Caution already correctly stated in that thread, testimonies came forward during and immediately after the facts (IIRC, Boder's also were taken in 1946). Because of HDenier's [redacted for decorum], I took a look at what Elizabeth Loftus did/does and it seems it's mostly about recovered memories - nothing like what the war and Final Solution was about and what deniers dispute.

Loftus’ work was used to oppose recovered memory evidence provided in court[11] and resulted in stricter requirements for the use of recovered memories being used in trials as well as a greater requirement for corroborating evidence.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Loftus#The_memory_wars

I'd think just that one sentence pretty much sums it all up...
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This got me curious. I found the following on Wikipedia concerning "recovered memory":
Recovered-memory therapy (RMT) is catch-all psychotherapy term for therapy using one or more method or technique for the purpose of recalling memories.[1] It does not refer to a specific, recognized treatment method, but rather several controversial and/or unproven interviewing techniques, such as hypnosis and guided-imagery, and the use of sedative-hypnotic drugs, which are presently rarely used in the responsible treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder and other dissociative disorders. Proponents of recovered memory therapy claim that traumatic memories can be buried in the subconscious and affect current behavior, and that these can be recovered. The term is not listed in DSM-IV nor is it recommended by mainstream ethical and professional mental health associations.[2]
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Hmmmm.
 
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