Cop kills woman during role playing demonstration.

steve s

Philosopher
steve s
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
5,865
Why in the world wasn't this guy using a rubber gun? They keep calling this an accident. But there's no such thing as an accident when it comes to guns--only carelessness and negligence.


The hosting officers chose two students to role-play in a lethal force simulation, a scenario intended to demonstrate how and when officers decide to pull the trigger. Knowlton played the victim, Charlotte Sun photographer Sue Paquin told the newspaper, and a Punta Gorda police officer played a “bad guy.” These scenarios are usually safe, acted out with either fake or empty weapons.

But when the officer’s gun was fired, Knowlton — a mother, wife and career librarian — was hit with live ammunition.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tizen-police-academy-lethal-force-simulation/

Steve S
 
It can be an accident that is caused by negligence. I'm not sure why you think those are mutually exclusive.

Certainly a terrible accident that should have never happened if the most basic of safety steps were followed. There had better be some consequences for those responsible.
 
In every training scenario we do locally, everyone strips all actual weapons prior to the exercise. Everything... No gun, no pepper spray, no batons, not even a pocket knife.
We then use "Red guns" or "Red knives".... Brightly-colored plastic replicas.

If it's a live-fire tactical exercise, we again secure all real weapons and issue everyone airsoft weapons and protective gear.

That's the ONLY way to run such scenarios.... No live weapons should be on the premises.
 
Bikewer said:
In every training scenario we do locally, everyone strips all actual weapons prior to the exercise. Everything... No gun, no pepper spray, no batons, not even a pocket knife.
We then use "Red guns" or "Red knives".... Brightly-colored plastic replicas.

If it's a live-fire tactical exercise, we again secure all real weapons and issue everyone airsoft weapons and protective gear.

That's the ONLY way to run such scenarios.... No live weapons should be on the premises.
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But...but...but that's GUN CONTROL!
 
foophil said:
It can be an accident that is caused by negligence. I'm not sure why you think those are mutually exclusive.

Certainly a terrible accident that should have never happened if the most basic of safety steps were followed. There had better be some consequences for those responsible.
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Danny Butterman: Hey, why can't we say "accident," again?
Nicholas Angel: Because "accident" implies there's nobody to blame.
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-- Hot Fuzz

That's why every gun professional I know says "negligent" instead of "accidental", followed by "discharge". With guns, and cars, there's always someone to blame.
 
elgarak said:
-- Hot Fuzz

That's why every gun professional I know says "negligent" instead of "accidental", followed by "discharge". With guns, and cars, there's always someone to blame.
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Not to mention the passive language that was used in the press conference, something along the lines of a discharge hit the woman. No, a discharge did not hit her, a careless officer used live ammo.
 
shemp said:
It's a good thing that gun was in the hands of a responsible gun owner. Imagine the carnage that would have happened if it had been in the hands of an irresponsible gun owner.
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Of equal importance, for once the unarmed victim of police violence was not a black man.
 
The article also says that she was playing the part of the victim. A cop was playing the bad guy. So why was she hit instead of the cop?

Steve S
 
steve s said:
The article also says that she was playing the part of the victim. A cop was playing the bad guy. So why was she hit instead of the cop?

Steve S
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I am sure the cop was just into method acting. Its perfectly a legitimate form of acting. Daniel Day Lewis has nothing on this guy.
 
Bikewer said:
That's the ONLY way to run such scenarios.... No live weapons should be on the premises.
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No kidding. When I taught classes in silencer design and fabrication I had firearms and silencers in the classroom, but no ammo, not even dummy cartridges. The ammo was only taken out when on the firing line for demonstrations.

Ranb
 
Bikewer said:
In every training scenario we do locally, everyone strips all actual weapons prior to the exercise. Everything... No gun, no pepper spray, no batons, not even a pocket knife.
We then use "Red guns" or "Red knives".... Brightly-colored plastic replicas.

If it's a live-fire tactical exercise, we again secure all real weapons and issue everyone airsoft weapons and protective gear.

That's the ONLY way to run such scenarios.... No live weapons should be on the premises.
Click to expand...

Correct.

The only answer I can come up with is negligence through familiarity.

The officer involved must have believed himself to be immune from a negligent or otherwise unintended discharge.

I handle live firearms more often than most, and live or cleared the drill is always the same - never let the muzzle cover something I don't intend to stop, and never, ever assume a piece is cleared unless you have cleared it yourself.

Outsiders might watch a group of guys examining a firearm and find amusement in observing each of then clear it as it gets handed over, but the fact is that unless you have cleared the piece it's live.
 
In my limited experience of holding a loaded gun, and even an imitation replica, I was always told not to point it at anybody.
 
steve s said:
The article also says that she was playing the part of the victim. A cop was playing the bad guy. So why was she hit instead of the cop?

Steve S
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Was she shot by the supposed mass shooter or was it collateral damage of the police responding to it?
 
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