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General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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Is that a picture of somebody who was gassed? Why did they bring inmates from Auschwitz to Natzweiler to be gassed? They had gas chambers at Auschwitz, no?
Why did they move prisoners from Auschwitz to Natzweiler and gas them at Natzweiler? Glad you asked. Because it was felt necessary to have the victims killed in Natzweiler for the particular "medical" experiments being conducted there. Background in these three posts, including Pressac's conclusions, Kramer's testimony (Kramer was camp commandant), Sievers' explanation (Sievers was head of a research organization of the SS, the Ahnenerbe), and Eichmann's interrogation:

Pressac

Kramer

Sievers and Eichmann
 
I'll give you a significant sample.
That is an important first step. General Frederick Morgan's War and peace: a Soldier's Life (1961) describes substantial numbers of people being transited through displaced persons camps at the end of the war by Jewish/zionist/proto-israeli authorities. Are there any records of persons registered at these camps or subsequently sent (directly or indirectly) to Israel, the USA or other destinations? According to Foreign Office papers, they generally had papers when moved by train, sometimes forged or of dubious authority.

I gather that some Jews revisit the Netherlands from Israel. Are there immigration or border records of their names? These would be reasonable lines of inquiry for Dutch holocaust scholars as well as revisionists. Have any of the former made such investigations? I think the Dutch government financed Shelvis' work, but records often emerge or are declassified as time passes, so it's reasonable to revisit his conclusions.

In order to establish the credibility of your doubts, why don't you give me one name - just one name - out of those 34,000 Dutch Sobibor victims who was still alive on 9 May 1945.
That is a reasonable, but not the only way to establish the credibility of a doubt. There is also the absence of evidence of mass graves and human remains at Sobibor, the impossibility or improbability of the suggested killing methods, German laws in force prohibiting indiscriminate killings, the general prevalence of falsehood in wartime, lack of authority of sources and substantial changes over time in claimed fatalities.

I've asked this question earlier on (previous parts of) this thread, in response to other deniers, and no-one has yet answered the question with a name.
It's a reasonable subject for investigation by revisionists. I'll pass it on. The only name I can think of offhand is the author Otto Frank: it is clear that not everyone was killed.
 
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What is improbable/impossible about the descriptions of killing methods at Sobibór? As to lack of physical evidence, which you imply, the slow - and gradually released - archaeological work by Haimi's team is slowly and gradually providing different kinds of physical evidence of mass murder at the site, evidence which aligns with testimonies and other forms of evidence about the camp.

To add to ddt's earlier note, here is a summary of those 19 transports from Westerbork during 1943 mentioned by ddt. The link includes information on survivors.

Inexplicably you mention Otto Frank as a survivor of these transports. If you look a bit closer I think you will find that his transport did not take him to Sobibór at all, nor was he deported from the Netherlands during 1943 (the period ddt discussed) and thus he cannot be counted as a survivor of a transport from Westerbork to Sobibór. This really shouldn't take "investigation by revisionists" to discover, since it is well known already.
 
. . . To suggest it was all made up in 1977 is so ludicrous that it beggars belief in anything else you might say. . . .

Indeed. We should perhaps acquaint him with the Allied declaration of December 1942; the International Military Tribunal and NMT trials at Nuremberg in the late '40s; the Treblinka, Sobibór, and Bełzec trials in Germany in the late '50s and '60s; the Eichmann trial in '61 in Jerusalem; and many other post-war proceedings that, er, preceded Hogan's Heroes, Frank Collin's march and whatnot. Then there is that pesky matter of evidence from the war years . . .
 
Indeed. We should perhaps acquaint him with the Allied declaration of December 1942; the International Military Tribunal and NMT trials at Nuremberg in the late '40s; the Treblinka, Sobibór, and Bełzec trials in Germany in the late '50s and '60s; the Eichmann trial in '61 in Jerusalem; and many other post-war proceedings that, er, preceded Hogan's Heroes, Frank Collin's march and whatnot. Then there is that pesky matter of evidence from the war years . . .

To which one can add the reports issued by men like Witold Pilecki, Jan Karski, Rudolf Vrba and Alfréd Wetzler at the time the event occurred...
 
As for the epistemology of testimony, this is a distinct field within philosophy now, and is decidedly interdisciplinary precisely because history, law and psychology have all developed discipline-specific concerns. C.A.J. Coady's Testimony (1992) is a foundational work [...]
The danger is of getting lost in detail, hence the merit of taking things back to personal experience and first principles. Thomas Reid established a general propensity to tell the truth that is modified by experience and culture (Coady's chapter 7, I presume) as part of a general anti-skeptical argument with the skeptic and historian Hume. Authors like Machiavelli and La Rochefoucauld speak more fully of weakness, self-interest and the dark side of human nature and this is clearly in play in politics and its history ("Who controls the past controls the present..."). - Machiavelli said:
"Men are so simple of mind, and so much dominated by their immediate needs, that a deceitful man will always find plenty who are ready to be deceived."
Neither of these latter are cited by Coady. A philosophical discipline needs to know its historical roots and stay in touch with human nature and general culture, not just academic debate (worthy though that is). How well guarded are we against deceit?

This is important, because a full set of the TuLBs [Taetigkeits- und Lageberichte] was found in the Foreign Office records which were, incidentally, originally captured by the British. They are therefore independent sources, and since they mention enough of the big, revisionist-disturbing massacres, refute any attempt to claim that Soviet secret agents manipulated the texts for the Americans to find, which is the only claim that can be justified since the Soviets DID NOT HAND THEM OVER. Got it?
[...] the 'first wave' of Einsatzgruppen murders was followed in 1942 by a 'second wave'.
In his latest work, Mattogno has tried to scale down his definition of the holocaust to the question of the Hitler order and the gas chambers. In light of these apparently distinct sources, it will be interesting to hear what he has to say on the Einsatzgruppen.

[Some further comments to follow.]
 
Racists who insist their fantasies are real in order to justify their racism.


Can I like any race or hate any race?
Or do I have to like all the races you do?
By the way Jews aren't a race as much as they like to think they are.
But they sure act like one when it comes to people criticizing them.

I'm an equal opportunity race hater....If you do bad things representing your race then you get my hate...

JR
 
Off the top of my head the book the eagle has landed was out in 1975 and that had all the war horror one could want in a ww2 book. And if I am remembering correctly it was accused of borrowing heavily from a previous book so even older than that.
 
From Talbot about those non existent mass graves on scrapbookpages site....
Some people get it some don't like the several Skeptoids here...
They show non existent everything and think they have nailed the truth....

You are quite right, Jim – there are no mass pits or large-scale deposits of human remains at any of these sites, but there could be small numbers of graves of people who died at these places. The post-war archaeological and forensic investigations were simply half-baked propaganda exercises done purely to paint the Germans in the worst light possible. There were ongoing war crimes trials and tribunals at the time – and this was the ballast that was used to obtain the convictions.

The more recent archaeological work is just as questionable, because it is all carried out by teams that either originate in Poland itself, or Israel. The results that they produce cannot possibly be accepted by any independent-minded observer, because not only do these nations have a vested interest in propping-up the fraudulent holohoax, but they have strict criminal laws that penalise anyone who even questions the official version of the holocaust. Therefore, how could any personnel involved in these projects carry out a truly impartial study – they would immediately be sent to prison!
 
The danger is of getting lost in detail, hence the merit of taking things back to personal experience and first principles. Thomas Reid established a general propensity to tell the truth that is modified by experience and culture (Coady's chapter 7, I presume) as part of a general anti-skeptical argument with the skeptic and historian Hume. Authors like Machiavelli and La Rochefoucauld speak more fully of weakness, self-interest and the dark side of human nature and this is clearly in play in politics and its history ("Who controls the past controls the present..."). - Machiavelli said:

Neither of these latter are cited by Coady. A philosophical discipline needs to know its historical roots and stay in touch with human nature and general culture, not just academic debate (worthy though that is).

One can easily find cute-sounding aphorisms and sweeping generalisations in the work of many writers, it doesn't oblige anyone to take them into account when others have offered more sustained reflections on the problem at hand. Your Machiavelli quote

"Men are so simple of mind, and so much dominated by their immediate needs, that a deceitful man will always find plenty who are ready to be deceived."

was rephrased by P.T. Barnum several centuries later in several different variations.

But before Barnum there's the equally famous Abraham Lincoln adage

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

We could trade quips forever, they will not get us very far.

How well guarded are we against deceit?

Well enough that we can say that the Holocaust wasn't hoaxed. A Machiavelli quote is weak sauce indeed, when compared to our ability to confirm and corroborate the multiple testimonies of witnesses to Nazi mass murder, by considering all sources together.

In his latest work, Mattogno has tried to scale down his definition of the holocaust to the question of the Hitler order and the gas chambers. In light of these apparently distinct sources, it will be interesting to hear what he has to say on the Einsatzgruppen.

How Mattogno defines the Holocaust in his own solipsistic bubble is rather irrelevant.

The Holocaust is used to refer to the entire era of persecution and murder of European Jews by the Nazis, their Axis allies, collaborators and by anyone in the affected societies between 1933 and 1945. Mass murder by Romanians carried out without a Hitler order and without using gas chambers are part of the Holocaust, as are killings of weakened KZ prisoners on death marches in 1945 after the suspension of the Final Solution.

Scholars can easily write about the persecution and murder of European Jews without using the term Holocaust, as both David Cesarani and Christian Gerlach have done in their recent overviews published this year. Indeed, revisionists tend to use the modifier Holocaust or holo-this or that more often than real historians actually do.

There is a consensus that the Holocaust (that shorthand again) was a genocide, but again the definition of genocide, even of genocidal intent, is not dependent on a singular order or on a specific method.

Mattogno doesn't seem to understand the work that has been done on how decisions were made and flowed from top to bottom as well as from bottom up, so I'm not expecting much more than the usual obfuscation, self-deception, dishonesty and incompetence from the Great Cornholio when he finally publishes the much belated revisionist 'confrontation' with the evidence for the mass shootings.
 
This misses the point about the Rankean paradigm, which was primarily about research methodology, above all placing archives at the centre of historical research. [...] you really should not be a revisionist, because everything of significance regarding the Holocaust is supported by official records one way or another.
Or perhaps you and some others should be revisionists. The main problem I have with Chapter One of the book Belzec, Sobibor Treblinka (hereafter "BST", 2011) is that its account is not drawn from German records in the first instance, but privileges less authoritative publications of the Polish government/underground. For example, it cites: "Omeg Shabes and polish underground sources" (Kindle Loc. 322), Engels' In the Shadow of Auschwitz (1987) - based on polish sources and the Central Jewish Historical Commission of Poland, which began work in 1943 (Kindle Loc. 386) and hence is of similar standing. These sources are what drives the narrative. Or:
By 1943, the Polish underground was tracking the course of the extermination campaign... 44 [Footnote 44 cites M Tyskowa's excerpts of Polish reports.] (Kindle Loc. 349)
Or:
In the summer of 1944 [...] survivors began to come out of hiding, joining nearby villagers [...] in giving testimonies and statements to Polish and Soviet investigators. (Kindle Loc. 353)
Polish sources again. A summary bears out this methodological bias:
[...] we have asked the question, 'how did we come to know about Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?', and answered it by referring to three broad processes: wartime reports, postwar investigations and trials, and historiography. (Kindle loc. 1049)
[...] wartime reports of of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka consistently identified them as extermination camps (Kindle loc. 1768) [Presumably not German reports then]
So none of these, except conceivably the first, are official German sources. A government - even a non-democratic one - is comprised of persons responsible for tasks and associated funds and assets and generally held accountable by superiors. Hence, there is a (reasonable, but defeasable) presumption that its records are accurate and that its plans aim at some public good that the government wishes to take credit for. An "underground" has no such responsibilities and reduced access to information. One of its main motives is defamation of the occupation government with the view of eventually supplanting them.

And the German sources used are not Monday morning at 9.00 am type sources, but things like the discredited Gerstein report (Kindle loc. 514, 1400) or Steiner's interviews (Kindle loc. 511). BST states:
[...] MGK consistently act as if the only source that can be considered a 'document' is a German report. [...] Rankeanism has only one rule, namely to prefer where possible a source that is closer to the events, either in terms of chronology or proximity. (Kindle loc. 770)
Well if this were true, Rankeanism would be a mightily deficient procedure. Or again:
Well, duh. The file went up in smoke. [No footnote to substantiate this provided.] It is our contention in this critique that such a hyperpositivist demand [for documents] is intellectually bogus, and reverses the normal chain of reasoning from the general to the particular. (Kindle loc. 840)
I would have thought that the normal chain of reasoning in history was from particular to general. Human beings are unpredictable and may hide their purposes, so even general rules may have exceptions. It may be generally true that an insult causes offence, but I may hide my resentment, or be an unusual person who has overcome it, or the bearer of a new doctrine (e.g. Christianity) that works on human nature.

It is worth noting in passing some statements that go against the main thesis of the book. In particular:
Sobibor was encircled with a penumbra of satellite labour camps. (Kindle loc. 1465)
During the first week of the 'deportation Aktion' Warsaw was flooded with greetings from the deported Jews. The greetings arrived from Bialystok, Brest-Litovsk, Kosov. Malkinia, Pinsk, Smolensk. All this was a lie [...] (Kindle loc. 1616)
Are there any records of admissions to these camps? Does anything confirm the arrival of Jews at these destinations? At the same time, many Germans were returning to the Reich (Heimkehr), so presumably there was spare accommodation.
no case of an SS man being punished for disobeying an order to kill ever came to light. Kindle loc. 2191)
But there are plenty of cases of Germans including SS being punished for killing without legal orders (Alfred De Zayas).

Let us turn to Hans Frank, a man of little recognized philosophical accomplishments:
The Nazi governor-general of Poland, Hans Frank, repeatedly referred to the destruction of the Jews, which is wholly relevant context for BST. Globocnik's reports on Einsatz Reinhard, while avoiding discussing gassing, killing, destruction or special treatment, confirm what is known from other sources as well, namely that the personnel of these camps were drawn from the T4 euthanasia program. Documents prove the use of gassing in T4.
Hans Frank was a heroic figure who has been poorly served by history. His character was shown by his speaking out publicly against the "Night of the Long Knives" on 30 June 1934 at a time when the rule of law was compromised and extra-judicial killings underway. It's well known that the term "destruction" (Vernichtung) was often used in the German of the day to refer to depriving a group of power. Frank handed his diaries over to the authorities, presumably because he remembered nothing incriminating in them. His considerable work as an editor of a legal journal and his own publications are not included in the bibliography of Dieter Schenk's biography. This avoids the question of why would someone spend their evenings reflecting on abstract ideas of justice and their daylight hours overseeing (or knowingly overlooking) lawless killings. Frank was later the subject of a sensationalist denunciation by his own son Niklas, part of the "Auschwitz generation".

On T4, BST states;
they had helped murder 70,000 'incurable' psychiatric patients using carbon monoxide dispensed from cylinders...(Kindle loc. 268)
There is no footnote referring to a source for this, never mind a German one. For such an astronomical number of victims, you would think there would be a footnote. (Later there is a reference to de Mildt, In the Name of the People (1996) - which may have more information.)

BST states:
...German documentary evidence, not least from the official diary of Hans Frank's Generalgouvernement administration, was examined and conclusively proved that Nazi policy towards Polish Jews was one of extermination, leaving only a minority alive... (Kindle loc. 421) [...] absolutely vital sources such as the published minutes of conferences in Hans Frank's Generalgouvernment administration are almost entirely omitted [by MGK] (Kindle loc. 793)
But again there is no footnote or direct quotation from these German sources to substantiate this.

As you should know, Chelmno was the first death camp to be set up, so it would only be fair to ask that revisionists can debunk it first (properly - as in proving an alternative), and if they cannot, then they might consider shutting up and getting a life.

I know your hero Mattogno has written a slim booklet on the camp, and I'd enjoy discussing the sources for Lodz and Chelmno, as a change from other camps.
I have the "slim booklet" (which took me several evenings to read, so is more short book length), so would be glad to follow the argument. Mattogno includes a critique of Longerich's expert report on the transfer of T4 staff. He notes Hans Frank's proposal to move Jews to Pripyet for "productive activities useful to the Reich". (Loc 663) There is little purpose in my providing a second hand summary of Mattogno but if you wish to criticize the original, I for one would pay close attention.

[Much of the rest of Chapter One concerns the claim of the necessity of a conspiracy. The book has already received a lengthy response from the trio of revisionists criticized in it. These are simply my own reflections.]

[I will be away from my computer in late August, which will delay replies.]
 
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Sounds to me like a bunch of intellectual twaddle to defend a "personal belief is more important then evidence" viewpoint.
 
Sounds to me like a bunch of intellectual twaddle to defend a "personal belief is more important then evidence" viewpoint.


I was going to say something like "Shorter EtienneSC: Look over there!!" but yours is a lot nicer.

It's interesting to note that he wants German sources but when the actual German perpetrators are questioned and none of them deny that the killings took place that testimony has to be discounted. Strange.
 
In his latest work, Mattogno has tried to scale down his definition of the holocaust to the question of the Hitler order and the gas chambers. In light of these apparently distinct sources, it will be interesting to hear what he has to say on the Einsatzgruppen.

[Some further comments to follow.]
So when Mattogno is ready to give up on entire parts of the Holocaust, he believes he is entitled to change the definition of the Holocaust to suit what he has not yet given up on? And he thinks people will accept this sleight of hand? He is worse than I thought.
 
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It's interesting to note that he wants German sources but when the actual German perpetrators are questioned and none of them deny that the killings took place that testimony has to be discounted. Strange.

Nothing strange there. This belongs to the standard denialist procedures allowing them to reach the "Truth"...
 
What is improbable/impossible about the descriptions of killing methods at Sobibór?
The claim of impossibility refers to rapid killing by diesel exhaust, which is the means suggested by Raul Hilberg in Destruction of the the European Jews on the basis of eye witness accounts. F Berg argued that diesel exhaust normally contains oxygen and non-deadly amounts of carbon monoxide: The Diesel Gas Chambers and hence would not fulfill the purpose it is supposed to serve. Berg wrote:
over most of their operating ranges, Diesels discharge sufficient oxygen so that one can literally inhale pure Diesel exhaust and survive. The smell will be brutally unpleasant, but not harmful. From idle to at least 3/4 of full load, Diesel exhaust contains sufficient oxygen to sustain human life for at least half an hour. [...]
the desired, high effective CO content that guarantees the death of all the victims within half an hour (0.4 to 0.8%) can only be attained near full load.
The survival time is reduced by the presence of carbon monoxide. More recently, it has been claimed that gasoline engines could have been used, but this contradicts eye witness testimony. Germany at the time was full of efficient producers of carbon monoxide in the form of "producer gas" engines, as a result of shortages of liquid fuel. It seems that the biggest, smelliest engine (a soviet tank or submarine engine) was supposed to perform this task, but a simple producer gas engine would have been far more effective. No serious thought seems to have gone into designing the process.
As to lack of physical evidence, which you imply, the slow - and gradually released - archaeological work by Haimi's team is slowly and gradually providing different kinds of physical evidence of mass murder at the site, evidence which aligns with testimonies and other forms of evidence about the camp.
The key kind of evidence would be human remains. The latest report on these seems to be 2013: Haimi Report 2013. However, it seems impossible to get any quantification from the statements in the report. Certainly there are human remains there. The 2014 report claimed to have found "gas chambers", but shorn of interpretation these are simply buildings.
To add to ddt's earlier note, here is a summary of those 19 transports from Westerbork during 1943 mentioned by ddt. The link includes information on survivors.
There seem to be no names here, but ddt has already linked to lists of names.
Inexplicably you mention Otto Frank as a survivor of these transports. If you look a bit closer I think you will find that his transport did not take him to Sobibór at all, nor was he deported from the Netherlands during 1943 (the period ddt discussed) and thus he cannot be counted as a survivor of a transport from Westerbork to Sobibór. This really shouldn't take "investigation by revisionists" to discover, since it is well known already.
Noted. The Frank family was sent from the Netherlands via Westerbork to Auschwitz in 1944 or later and from there to Bergen Belsen.
 
Or perhaps you and some others should be revisionists. The main problem I have with Chapter One of the book Belzec, Sobibor Treblinka (hereafter "BST", 2011) is that its account is not drawn from German records in the first instance, but privileges less authoritative publications of the Polish government/underground. For example, it cites: "Omeg Shabes and polish underground sources" (Kindle Loc. 322), Engels' In the Shadow of Auschwitz (1987) - based on polish sources and the Central Jewish Historical Commission of Poland, which began work in 1943 (Kindle Loc. 386) and hence is of similar standing. These sources are what drives the narrative. Or:

Or:

Polish sources again. A summary bears out this methodological bias:

So none of these, except conceivably the first, are official German sources. A government - even a non-democratic one - is comprised of persons responsible for tasks and associated funds and assets and generally held accountable by superiors. Hence, there is a (reasonable, but defeasable) presumption that its records are accurate and that its plans aim at some public good that the government wishes to take credit for. An "underground" has no such responsibilities and reduced access to information. One of its main motives is defamation of the occupation government with the view of eventually supplanting them.

And the German sources used are not Monday morning at 9.00 am type sources, but things like the discredited Gerstein report (Kindle loc. 514, 1400) or Steiner's interviews (Kindle loc. 511). BST states:

Well if this were true, Rankeanism would be a mightily deficient procedure. Or again:

I would have thought that the normal chain of reasoning in history was from particular to general. Human beings are unpredictable and may hide their purposes, so even general rules may have exceptions. It may be generally true that an insult causes offence, but I may hide my resentment, or be an unusual person who has overcome it, or the bearer of a new doctrine (e.g. Christianity) that works on human nature.

It is worth noting in passing some statements that go against the main thesis of the book. In particular:

Are there any records of admissions to these camps? Does anything confirm the arrival of Jews at these destinations? At the same time, many Germans were returning to the Reich (Heimkehr), so presumably there was spare accommodation.

But there are plenty of cases of Germans including SS being punished for killing without legal orders (Alfred De Zayas).

Let us turn to Hans Frank, a man of little recognized philosophical accomplishments:

Hans Frank was a heroic figure who has been poorly served by history. His character was shown by his speaking out publicly against the "Night of the Long Knives" on 30 June 1934 at a time when the rule of law was compromised and extra-judicial killings underway. It's well known that the term "destruction" (Vernichtung) was often used in the German of the day to refer to depriving a group of power. Frank handed his diaries over to the authorities, presumably because he remembered nothing incriminating in them. His considerable work as an editor of a legal journal and his own publications are not included in the bibliography of Dieter Schenk's biography. This avoids the question of why would someone spend their evenings reflecting on abstract ideas of justice and their daylight hours overseeing (or knowingly overlooking) lawless killings. Frank was later the subject of a sensationalist denunciation by his own son Niklas, part of the "Auschwitz generation".

On T4, BST states;

There is no footnote referring to a source for this, never mind a German one. For such an astronomical number of victims, you would think there would be a footnote. (Later there is a reference to de Mildt, In the Name of the People (1996) - which may have more information.)

BST states:

But again there is no footnote or direct quotation from these German sources to substantiate this.

Well, that proved you cannot read books for comprehension. You cite a number of statements from the introduction to our white paper, and expect them to be sourced to the nth degree? Really? The rest of the white paper does that!

For example, you write

On T4, BST states;
Quote:
they had helped murder 70,000 'incurable' psychiatric patients using carbon monoxide dispensed from cylinders...(Kindle loc. 268)

There is no footnote referring to a source for this, never mind a German one.

This is from an overview of just over a page in the introduction, on p.14, in other words an internal 'blurb', which is then immediately followed on p.15 by the statement:

How do we know all this? How did we come to know about Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

which kicks off what amounts to a historiography and overview of the sources available on the Reinhard camps.

As this overview explains what was available in chronological order, then naturally it discusses the Polish and Jewish underground sources before it discusses German documents, because German documents were not available in 1943. Not until archives were captured and explored could it be known what German documents had survived the war; this should be supremely obvious.

Chapter 2 tests the revisionist proposition that the wartime reports of the Polish and Jewish undergrounds as well as other contemporary reports reaching outside observers can be traced back to a deliberate hoax, and finds this thesis to be severely wanting. (Warning: this is one area where we dispose of massively many more sources than we did in 2011.) The same goes for hypotheses seeking to interpret all the reports as arising from some organic rumour source (as in Samuel Crowell's 'hystory' thesis).

As for T4: look ahead to the epigraph to Chapter 5 and try to imagine the moment of sheer terror that Mattogno et al experienced when they realised that a contemporary Nazi document (a script for a training/internal propaganda film) mentioned the use of CO gas in euthanasia.
 
The claim of impossibility refers to rapid killing by diesel exhaust, which is the means suggested by Raul Hilberg in Destruction of the the European Jews on the basis of eye witness accounts. F Berg argued that diesel exhaust normally contains oxygen and non-deadly amounts of carbon monoxide: The Diesel Gas Chambers and hence would not fulfill the purpose it is supposed to serve. Berg wrote:

The survival time is reduced by the presence of carbon monoxide. More recently, it has been claimed that gasoline engines could have been used, but this contradicts eye witness testimony. Germany at the time was full of efficient producers of carbon monoxide in the form of "producer gas" engines, as a result of shortages of liquid fuel. It seems that the biggest, smelliest engine (a soviet tank or submarine engine) was supposed to perform this task, but a simple producer gas engine would have been far more effective. No serious thought seems to have gone into designing the process...

I guess we're all doomed in this thread to ride around in a Trans-Am listening to Warrant*

Already, debunked from Nizkor Project:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/diesel-01.html





*Sorry, I can't remember who wrote that and can't find it. Perhaps it was sent off to AAH?
 
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