Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[LondonJohn]

I think everyone expected Hellmann's confirmation to be a formality. Nobody expected someone as dumb as Chieffi to be on the Supreme Court and point out that Quintavalle saw blue eyes and a heroin junkie was able to point out the two defendants in court, assisted by them being two defendants in court, and that Hellmann's verdict was incompatible with a separate trial neither defendant participated in.

I remember the release of the State Department cables showed they considered the matter "case closed." So did the rest of the thinking world.

Most PIP were so shocked at the Chieffi decision they never fully comprehended it, and assumed it must have been procedural silliness with the Italian system. After all, why would you bother to retry someone clearly innocent of the charges and for which there is no evidence to sustain a conviction? What would you possibly hope to accomplish? Apparently the answer is, nothing.

Indeed. That fully echoes my opinion on this matter. I would also add that a public official such as Mignini clearly ought to (and should) be held to a far, far higher standard of probity and scrupulous fairness than a private citizen. Yet Mignini has plenty of form grandstanding for the media to bolster his own position and image*, and he has also almost certainly engaged in background briefings that, at the very least, stretch law and ethics to the very limit of acceptability.

* And yes, it's certainly true that in the US for example, some DAs and judges also engage in similar questionable practices. But that in no way mitigates Mignini's behaviour. If I were on trial in a US jurisdiction where the DA was briefing the media "off the record" or where the judge was making potentially-prejudicial remarks, I would be shouting impropriety from the rooftops too.

 

[Stacyhs]

Courts are all about meeting deadlines. Dr Gill 'the Father of All Genetics' missed a deadline?


Whoops! There goes another rubber tree plant (whoops there goes another rubber tree plant...)

Sheesh. Is that the best you can do? Summon up some imaginary deadline? It does not go unnoticed that you fail to acknowledge that your criticism of Gill not being called by the defense is based on your ignorance.

 

[Bill Williams]

Sheesh. Is that the best you can do? Summon up some imaginary deadline? It does not go unnoticed that you fail to acknowledge that your criticism of Gill not being called by the defense is based on your ignorance.

Vixen still hasn't named one peer reviewed forensic DNA expert who agrees with Stefanoni's work.

Professor Novelli does not count. Why? Because Novelli conceded that multiple amplification are protocol - and Stefanoni did not follow protocol.

 

[Desert Fox]

Vixen, is Amanda Knox really more evil than Adolph Hitler?

 

[Vixen]

Vixen still hasn't named one peer reviewed forensic DNA expert who agrees with Stefanoni's work.

Professor Novelli does not count. Why? Because Novelli conceded that multiple amplification are protocol - and Stefanoni did not follow protocol.

You were well and truly tangoed, Bill with your attempt to fandango us all with the fake 'concerned laboratory assistant from Bari er, Rome' letter.

If Novelli sends you into paroxysms of apoplexy, do download the latest analysis of the case by leading commentator, James Raper:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JB6XMDA#navbar

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, is Amanda Knox really more evil than Adolph Hitler?

Is evil measurable? I'd say anyone who can do that to another human being, is pretty much on a par.

 

[Bill Williams]

You were well and truly tangoed, Bill with your attempt to fandango us all with the fake 'concerned laboratory assistant from Bari er, Rome' letter.

If Novelli sends you into paroxysms of apoplexy, do download the latest analysis of the case by leading commentator, James Raper:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JB6XMDA#navbar

These "cutesie" posts of yours do not deflect the fact (successfully at least) that you still have not provided one - not one - credible forensic-DNA expert who agrees with Stefanoni. Your use of the term "tangoed" is about the best you can do to mask this PR campaign of yours.

The quote you provided from Nencini, where Nencini cites Novelli, actually sustains the criticisms of Stefanoni that ALL - repeat ALL - experts level at Stefanoni. Novelli, acc. to Nencini, says that the necessity for successful multiple-amplifications is standard protocol.

The problem was not Novelli, it was Nencini - Nencini was the one who turned it on its head, that failure to adhere to protocol was a reason to convict.

That's what Marasca/Bruno overturned - the tortured logic of Nencini who took acquitting evidence and used it to convict.

As for this latest e-book, when are you Vixen going to start criticizing these people for cashing in on the Kercher's tragedy and grief?

 

[Sergei Walankov]

You were well and truly tangoed, Bill with your attempt to fandango us all with the fake 'concerned laboratory assistant from Bari er, Rome' letter.

If Novelli sends you into paroxysms of apoplexy, do download the latest analysis of the case by leading commentator, James Raper:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JB6XMDA#navbar

I guess he should be thankful you didn't call him James Rapist.

 

[bagels]

You were well and truly tangoed, Bill with your attempt to fandango us all with the fake 'concerned laboratory assistant from Bari er, Rome' letter.

If Novelli sends you into paroxysms of apoplexy, do download the latest analysis of the case by leading commentator, James Raper:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JB6XMDA#navbar

Didn't click but let me see if I can approximate how it goes...


The luminol stains were unmatched, undated, tested negative for blood and negative for DNA....but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The shopkeeper Quintavalle and the homeless heroin junkie told police they saw nothing and knew nothing...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The giant kitchen knife tested negative for blood, did not match the wounds on the body the medical examiner on site concluded were made by a small penknife, did not match the bloody imprint next to the body on a sheet left by a small penknife, and had no plausible reason to be transported to the cottage due to the logistics of the proposed crime scenario...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The break-in closely resembled Rudy the burglar's previous break-in blocks away that also involved smashing up an upper story window with a large rock, and scaling up metal bars below. The police have never produced evidence of glass on clothes or been able to explain the wide glass dispersal pattern incompatible with a rock smashing the window from the inside...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

Everyone the police interviewed on the night of the 5th claims the police either beat them or threatened to beat them, Amanda wrote a letter to the very police she was just interrogated by pleading with them to stop hitting at her and calling her a liar every time she answered wrongly. Patrick said he was kicked and punched and called a dirty black. These interviews occurred in a modern interrogation room and yet the police have never released a single second of tape to counter these claims of coercion after getting Amanda to sign a self incriminating statement...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.


I think I'm probably pretty close....

If only courts could convict on gut feeling and intuition and the look of a killer's evil eyes huh? Amanda would still be in prison!

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Didn't click but let me see if I can approximate how it goes...


The luminol stains were unmatched, undated, tested negative for blood and negative for DNA....but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The shopkeeper Quintavalle and the homeless heroin junkie told police they saw nothing and knew nothing...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The giant kitchen knife tested negative for blood, did not match the wounds on the body the medical examiner on site concluded were made by a small penknife, did not match the bloody imprint next to the body on a sheet left by a small penknife, and had no plausible reason to be transported to the cottage due to the logistics of the proposed crime scenario...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The break-in closely resembled Rudy the burglar's previous break-in blocks away that also involved smashing up an upper story window with a large rock, and scaling up metal bars below. The police have never produced evidence of glass on clothes or been able to explain the wide glass dispersal pattern incompatible with a rock smashing the window from the inside...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

Everyone the police interviewed on the night of the 5th claims the police either beat them or threatened to beat them, Amanda wrote a letter to the very police she was just interrogated by pleading with them to stop hitting at her and calling her a liar every time she answered wrongly. Patrick said he was kicked and punched and called a dirty black. These interviews occurred in a modern interrogation room and yet the police have never released a single second of tape to counter these claims of coercion after getting Amanda to sign a self incriminating statement...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.


I think I'm probably pretty close....

If only courts could convict on gut feeling and intuition and the look of a killer's evil eyes huh? Amanda would still be in prison!

Don't forget that a conspiracy theorist prosecutor said there were 3 people involved and it was a pagan murder ritual, and an Italian judge agreed with him. So it must be true because it is a judicial truth. The forensic scientists who have all said the evidence was nonsense were all paid off by Friends of Amanda.

The people who provably lied when testifying though, they were on the up and up. Gotta put that evil lying bitch Amanda in prison at all cost! Didn't you hear? She had sex on a train! I'm pretty sure! Read it in a book one time.

 

[Vixen]

Whilst the real story of Rudy's legal team - I presume from Viterbo Uni Law Department - lodging a petition requesting a review of his case, has been buried in the midst of a small handful of papers, we have been bombarded with the non-news of Amanda moving in with a boyfriend.

Was this another Gogerty-Marriott press release, Bill?


Anyway the grounds for Rudy's application will likely be in the correct legal wording and citing the correct jurisdiction. If so, it is likely the court will have to accept his application and at least list it for a preliminary hearing.

From ANSA last week, the grounds are:

In Italian criminal code, a review is a special type of appeal with no statute of limitations that is available under certain circumstances to convicted criminals.
The request will be presented to the Florence Court of Assizes of Appeal by the end of July, Guede's press office said. [Now filed - V] In a statement, Guede's press office referenced the acquittals of suspects Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito by Italy's high Court of Cassation as the basis for requesting the review.
"(By) totally eliminating the situation in which a crime was committed by Knox and Sollecito, as established by the Cassation Court, there's no longer a way to explain Rudy's role," his press office said.
Guede had a fast-track trial, under which convictions are cut by a third and are normally unappealable.

and

His lawyers have presented a request to Florence's appeals court on the grounds that his conviction is incompatible with the acquittals of American Amanda Knox and her ex boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito in the case.

From REPUBBLICA:

The review was sought for what the lawyers consider a contrast of judged with the judgment which acquitted Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox . The defenders point to get a retrial and then absolution "for not having committed the crime." The instance of Guede, condensed into a dozen pages, must first pass the scrutiny of eligibility by the Court of Appeal of Florence, which was presented today. A decision is not expected before the end of the month. If the decision is positive for Guede we will then celebrated a new trial.

For the record, Rudy's lawyers in this case are Tommaso Pietrocarlo and Monica Grossi, based in Rome. They appear to be a legal team. http://www.studiolegalepietrocarlo.com/#!tommaso-pietrocarlo/c1eh8

 

[Vixen]

Didn't click but let me see if I can approximate how it goes...


The luminol stains were unmatched, undated, tested negative for blood and negative for DNA....but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The shopkeeper Quintavalle and the homeless heroin junkie told police they saw nothing and knew nothing...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The giant kitchen knife tested negative for blood, did not match the wounds on the body the medical examiner on site concluded were made by a small penknife, did not match the bloody imprint next to the body on a sheet left by a small penknife, and had no plausible reason to be transported to the cottage due to the logistics of the proposed crime scenario...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

The break-in closely resembled Rudy the burglar's previous break-in blocks away that also involved smashing up an upper story window with a large rock, and scaling up metal bars below. The police have never produced evidence of glass on clothes or been able to explain the wide glass dispersal pattern incompatible with a rock smashing the window from the inside...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.

Everyone the police interviewed on the night of the 5th claims the police either beat them or threatened to beat them, Amanda wrote a letter to the very police she was just interrogated by pleading with them to stop hitting at her and calling her a liar every time she answered wrongly. Patrick said he was kicked and punched and called a dirty black. These interviews occurred in a modern interrogation room and yet the police have never released a single second of tape to counter these claims of coercion after getting Amanda to sign a self incriminating statement...but Amanda is a bitch and a liar so this is solid evidence.


I think I'm probably pretty close....

If only courts could convict on gut feeling and intuition and the look of a killer's evil eyes huh? Amanda would still be in prison!

Miles out. The main wound was inflicted by a blade of at least 9 cm long and 4 cm wide. That's hardly a pocket penknife.

 

[Vixen]

Don't forget that a conspiracy theorist prosecutor said there were 3 people involved and it was a pagan murder ritual, and an Italian judge agreed with him. So it must be true because it is a judicial truth. The forensic scientists who have all said the evidence was nonsense were all paid off by Friends of Amanda.

The people who provably lied when testifying though, they were on the up and up. Gotta put that evil lying bitch Amanda in prison at all cost! Didn't you hear? She had sex on a train! I'm pretty sure! Read it in a book one time.

Mignini was at the crime scene from day one. Gill was not.

Mignini oversaw the forensics team schedule. Gill did not.

Mignini oversaw the pathologist's examination of the body at the scene. Gill did not.

Mignini interviewed Amanda, Rudy and others first hand. Gill did not.

Mignini was at every trial. Gill was not.

Mignini saw all the evidence, met all the suspects. Gill did not.

Mignini acted for the State on behalf of the murder victim, Gill acted for a fee on behalf of Raff's defence.

Which of the two is the more credible figure?

 

[Bill Williams]

Mignini was at the crime scene from day one. Gill was not.

Mignini oversaw the forensics team schedule. Gill did not.

Mignini oversaw the pathologist's examination of the body at the scene. Gill did not.

Mignini interviewed Amanda, Rudy and others first hand. Gill did not.

Mignini was at every trial. Gill was not.

Mignini saw all the evidence, met all the suspects. Gill did not.

Mignini acted for the State on behalf of the murder victim, Gill acted for a fee on behalf of Raff's defence.

Which of the two is the more credible figure?

Dr. Peter Gill. Hands down.

Mignini at first thought this was a murder because of a ritual associated with Hallowe'en, then when co-prosecutor Comodi threatened to resign, he changed it to a sex-game gone wrong. No court accepted that it was a sex-game gone wrong, although the Chieffi panel of the ISC ordered the Nencini court to re-evaluate it.

Instead, prosecutor Crini in Florence advanced a pooh-in-the toilet motive, and Nencini settled on a fight-over-rent-money motive.

You need to name one peer-reviewed forensic-DNA expert who agrees with Stefanoni's work.

I know you'll not answer that - so what is your opinion about Mignini being censured by his peers for depriving a suspect of their rights at interrogation? What does that do to make Mignini a "credible figure"? How does Mignini's behaviour in the Monster of Florence saga fit into this, and how do you account for the charges brought against him for that debacle?

 

[LondonJohn]

Dr. Peter Gill. Hands down.

Mignini at first thought this was a murder because of a ritual associated with Hallowe'en, then when co-prosecutor Comodi threatened to resign, he changed it to a sex-game gone wrong. No court accepted that it was a sex-game gone wrong, although the Chieffi panel of the ISC ordered the Nencini court to re-evaluate it.

Instead, prosecutor Crini in Florence advanced a pooh-in-the toilet motive, and Nencini settled on a fight-over-rent-money motive.

You need to name one peer-reviewed forensic-DNA expert who agrees with Stefanoni's work.

I know you'll not answer that - so what is your opinion about Mignini being censured by his peers for depriving a suspect of their rights at interrogation? What does that do to make Mignini a "credible figure"? How does Mignini's behaviour in the Monster of Florence saga fit into this, and how do you account for the charges brought against him for that debacle?

I'm just going to leave the words "egotistical", "maniac", "self-protecting", "personal fiefdom" and "desperate to restore reputation after MoF debacle at almost any cost" out there, in case any or all of them are relevant to this section of the debate

 

[Stacyhs]

You were well and truly tangoed, Bill with your attempt to fandango us all with the fake 'concerned laboratory assistant from Bari er, Rome' letter.

If Novelli sends you into paroxysms of apoplexy, do download the latest analysis of the case by leading commentator, James Raper:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JB6XMDA#navbar

Raper is a leading commentator on TJMK. So is Naseer Ahmad aka ManfromAtlan aka "God". So is Quennell. Not exactly impressive credentials.

The anonymous letter, as pointed out, clearly indicated the author was someone who was well-informed on how labs are supposed to work, or in Stefanoni's case, didn't work. That indicates Raffaele was not the author.

 

[Stacyhs]

Miles out. The main wound was inflicted by a blade of at least 9 cm long and 4 cm wide. That's hardly a pocket penknife.

The knife that left the bloody outline on the sheet was compatible with all the knife wounds. ALL. Since the kitchen knife was too big to make all the wounds, Mignini had to come up with the 2 knife theory. Lalli told him that he believed only one knife was used .

 

[Vixen]

The knife that left the bloody outline on the sheet was compatible with all the knife wounds. ALL. Since the kitchen knife was too big to make all the wounds, Mignini had to come up with the 2 knife theory. Lalli told him that he believed only one knife was used .

Citation, please.

A four inch penknife would not have reached all the way back to the hyoid bone, some eight cms back, which showed knife serrations on it.

 

[Vixen]

Raper is a leading commentator on TJMK. So is Naseer Ahmad aka ManfromAtlan aka "God". So is Quennell. Not exactly impressive credentials.

The anonymous letter, as pointed out, clearly indicated the author was someone who was well-informed on how labs are supposed to work, or in Stefanoni's case, didn't work. That indicates Raffaele was not the author.

Anonymity is no good in a court of law. I recall seeing evidence that the provenance of this anonymous letter was from Raff's own PC.

Anyway, if you have to write anonymously, it doesn't inspire confidence in the writer's integrity.

 

[LondonJohn]

Citation, please.

A four inch penknife would not have reached all the way back to the hyoid bone, some eight cms back, which showed knife serrations on it.

Vixen demonstrates her scientific prowess once again with an inability to make a simple imperial-metric conversion

(FVI: 4 inches = approx 10.2 centimetres......)