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General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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JimRizoli said:
No offense guys but this site really sucks no one answers any questions you avoid any debate on the topic you don't show any facts of what you say pretty boring here.


JR
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Simple - then leave
 
My answer to this Holocaust drivel

What most here call a "Holocaust" is nothing more than a predesigned propaganda mind control. The facts that so many use the word Holocaust shows that not much has gone into whst that entails. The ignorant ones will always say, "you don't believe in the holocaust" like it is accepted that there was one in the first place. YOU all may call it a Holocaust, I don't. Sure the experience of Jews and other people's was certainy not pleasant during these troubling times but the interpretation of those troubling events and times was certainly not proof of any PLANNED written executed order. Just because some witness say certain things doesn't mean ALL witnesses say the same.The Pope's recent visit to Auschwitz brings up some good points about what makes a Holocaust denier. If current stated beliefs about the "Holocaust" are to believed then the Pope himself is a Holocaust denier, or at least his previous Pope in 1986 was about the total number of Jews killed at Auschwitz. The figures keep going down meaning their isn't a real yardstick of measurement for Holocaust facts and figures, yet people are going to jail and even in the past were put to death for beliefs that are not even believed in now.

.
 
HDenier said:
What most here call a "Holocaust" is nothing more than a predesigned propaganda mind control. The facts that so many use the word Holocaust shows that not much has gone into whst that entails. The ignorant ones will always say, "you don't believe in the holocaust" like it is accepted that there was one in the first place. YOU all may call it a Holocaust, I don't. Sure the experience of Jews and other people's was certainy not pleasant during these troubling times but the interpretation of those troubling events and times was certainly not proof of any PLANNED written executed order. Just because some witness say certain things doesn't mean ALL witnesses say the same.The Pope's recent visit to Auschwitz brings up some good points about what makes a Holocaust denier. If current stated beliefs about the "Holocaust" are to believed then the Pope himself is a Holocaust denier, or at least his previous Pope in 1986 was about the total number of Jews killed at Auschwitz. The figures keep going down meaning their isn't a real yardstick of measurement for Holocaust facts and figures, yet people are going to jail and even in the past were put to death for beliefs that are not even believed in now.
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I don't think we're the ones showing ignorance.

Question to the new bunch of deniers... How many books and documents have you actually read on the Holocaust?
 
Jim, you were referred to Patrick Debois's Holocaust by Bullets but failed to say a word about the book. You were given links here to a number of fact-laden discussions of the physical evidence you say is non-existent - when asked, you didn't post a word about these sources. In reply to a request for mock-ups of gas chambers, you were referred to a mock-up of them along with technical reading and short descriptions of how gassing worked - again you were non-responsive. You asked about individuals who were gassed - and ignored a list of names from the Netherlands.

You won't make discussion here stimulating by ignoring replies and pretending they weren't made.

Helpful hint: we don't make up new rules for how to study historical events here, nor do we go along with dumbed-down demands like yours to forget about large amounts of evidence. You asked about forensics, but your premises are all wrong: in order to explain what happened in the past, we have to take account of all the evidence, which includes documentary sources (reports, orders, correspondence, laws), news media reports, population data, witnesses, physical and forensic evidence, photographs, diaries, and so on - like as with Babi Yar here or Ponary near Vilnius here . Along with being given evidence for mass murder in the German occupied USSR, you've been asked to tell us about the killing sites in eastern Europe which you've studied and on what basis you draw your conclusions about these sites. If you replied to this request, we might get somewhere. Let me suggest that you begin by telling us your view of the evidence for Babi Yar and Ponary in the two links in this post.
 
HDenier said:
. . . The figures keep going down meaning their isn't a real yardstick of measurement for Holocaust facts and figures. . .
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Please explain this assertion further.

In 1961 Raul Hilberg estimated that 5.1 million Jews perished at the hands of Germany and its allies during WWII; a recent estimate by scholar Nick Terry puts the number of victims at 5.3 million (this estimate is in line with that of other scholars - USHMM summary here). Through the years, there have been higher and lower estimates, but most are in the range 5.1-6.0 million Jewish deaths.

With these estimates in mind, how do you come to claim that "figures keep going down"?
 
JimRizoli said:
Please show me how the HoloHoax happened....

<much conspiratorial nonsense snipped>
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bart6.gif
 
It amazes me that a society can self-admittedly set out to commit an atrocity like genocide, and people will bitch about "the actual numbers" of the dead. As though 50,000 would be less of a horrible crime than 6 million.

:hb:
 
You're all making a mountain out of a molehill here with all your "facts"
I'm just looking for a picture of a homicidal gas chamber and someone who was said to been gassed in it. How simple is that? But you HoloHuxsters refuse to show me what I ask for and then on top it all you say there is more to it than that??
Really! I'm just looking for the simplest thing but you divert the question to other things that don't answer my simple question.
Then you say I'm the one that has the problem....LOL Of course I am....
I guess the question should be is there a picture out there somewhere that shows what I'm looking for? Simple answer Yes or No......Read my lips Yes or No?

I did look at the pics......sorry no mass killings that I saw....Show me tens of thousands of bodies?? Then millions??
You have a few pictures of some dead bodies so what does that prove?
A mass grave is thousands of bodies....you might want to define Mass grave because what your showing me is not it.

Jim Rizoli
 
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JimRizoli said:
You're all making a mountain out of a molehill here with all your "facts"
I'm just looking for a picture of a homicidal gas chamber and someone who was said to been gassed in it.
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History is not a kindergarten picture book. You cannot boil proven events down to colorful, simple graphics for easy consumption.

I cannot post a url yet due to the forum rules, but I suggest you look up "Auschwitz Sonderkommando" on google images. The first result is a photo, covertly taken by a member of the Auschwitz-II sonderkommando of bodies after gassing. They are being burned in open air due to a malfunction in one of the Kremas that is attested to by multiple sources.
 
JimRizoli said:
I'm just looking for a picture of a homicidal gas chamber
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Very easy to goggle that - once you have you can launch into your pre-scripted denial.

I mean that is what you really want to do isn't it?

lol
 
JimRizoli said:
You're all making a mountain out of a molehill here with all your "facts"
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Fact-free history: Holocaust denial. Thanks for the clear statement of how you operate.

JimRizoli said:
I'm just looking for a picture of a homicidal gas chamber and someone who was said to been gassed in it. How simple is that? But you HoloHuxsters refuse to show me what I ask for and then on top it all you say there is more to it than that??
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But that is not what you asked for: you asked for a mock up, and got it; you asked for physical studies, and you got them.

JimRizoli said:
I did look at the pics......sorry no mass killings that I saw....Show me tens of thousands of bodies?? Then millions??
You have a few pictures of some dead bodies so what does that prove?
A mass grave is thousands of bodies....you might want to define Mass grave because what your showing me is not it.
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Well, you hadn't asked for this before. Sheesh. Here's a photograph of the Skede Beach mass graves taken during the shooting action in December 1941, Liepaja, Latvia (you have heard of SK-1005, no? - the Germans decided get rid of as much evidence of their murders as they could, which, from their point of view, was only reasonable):

Liepaja_massacre_05.jpg


You can visit this Pinterest page among many other places on the web to view additional photographs of this massacre.

To understand what occurred at Skede Beach in December 1941, however, you need to do more than look at photographs. Here are some helpful links:

Yad Vashem: The visual evidence of the murder of the Jews of Liepaja
USHMM encyclopedia of ghettos and camps entry

movie footage of a shooting on the same beach conducted months earlier

Frankly, I am beginning to conclude 1) that you have no answer for the information on the mass shootings provided by a number of us and 2) that you've not actually studied any of the sites.

Are you going to answer what I asked you about Babi Yar and Ponary - or are you incapable of doing so?
 
I see the publication of elements of Himmler's diaries has bought out a crop of Holocaust deniers.
:rolleyes:
 
JimRizoli said:
You're all making a mountain out of a molehill here with all your "facts"
I'm just looking for a picture of a homicidal gas chamber and someone who was said to been gassed in it. How simple is that? But you HoloHuxsters refuse to show me what I ask for and then on top it all you say there is more to it than that??
Really! I'm just looking for the simplest thing but you divert the question to other things that don't answer my simple question.
Then you say I'm the one that has the problem....LOL Of course I am....
I guess the question should be is there a picture out there somewhere that shows what I'm looking for? Simple answer Yes or No......Read my lips Yes or No?

I did look at the pics......sorry no mass killings that I saw....Show me tens of thousands of bodies?? Then millions??
You have a few pictures of some dead bodies so what does that prove?
A mass grave is thousands of bodies....you might want to define Mass grave because what your showing me is not it.

Jim Rizoli
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Is this how history works for you?

"Pics or it didn't happen LOL"

:jaw-dropp

Doesn't matter what photos you're provided with anyway, you dismiss them.

There's footage from a gassing experiment in 1941, and no it doesn't show the interior. It does show naked mental patients being herded into the building, the vehicles and pipes leading into the building to pump in the carbon monoxide.

You'll dismiss that too, of course.
 
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Dash80 said:
Is this how history works for you?

"Pics or it didn't happen LOL"

:jaw-dropp
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It would also be interesting to hear how Jim Rizoli suggests people go about learning what happened at Babi Yar, Ponary, and Liepaja in fall 1941 - three cases for which we've now provided him what he calls "facts" in sneer quotes - if not through analysis of a variety evidence. Does he propose the reception of messages via tinfoil hats, as opposed to, er, all our facts?
 
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