Why doesn't the US do something about mass shootings?

[marplots]

It saved my life already once, and I disarmed the guy with the assault rifle trying to kill me. He did four years for it.

Weighing those two, my life vs. your little straw man - not much of a contest.

What straw man? You don't think the risk of infection is real?

You are going to find infections of various sorts appearing in the top 10 reasons for hospitalizations in plenty of countries. Maybe it's different where you are, but where I'm at you are far, far more likely to be tagged by a bacterium or virus than anything copper jacketed.

Like I said, people don't really understand risk very well. Takes training.

 

[cullennz]

Precisely, it's just situational awareness and small but critical actions which greatly reduce risk. How many, I wonder, take the time to use a little Purell after shaking hands? Or bother sanitizing work surfaces with alcohol-based wipes?

I don't blame them, they haven't been trained. They don't grasp the risks. Sure, they might think it odd that I wear a surgical mask in public, or double check the temperature of the food I am served at a restaurant, but when they lose an arm to a flesh-eating bacterial infection, I expect they'll come to see things a bit differently.

And don't tell me I worry too much. I take precautions - I'm not worried, I'm prepared. That's what they don't get. Nice looking prosthetic by the way.

Lol

Please can this be post of the year?

 

[cullennz]

I don't have exactly the same list but it is nice to compare notes.

It takes so little time, just glances, to raise your awareness into a life-saving status. It is the same thing martial artists learn, self-defense arts: being aware is what avoids the need to fight in in the first place.

It is interesting to hear the complaints - that these mere moments generating awareness are some bizarre fear or great burden.

No, the wise man spends zero effort protecting himself, they would have us believe. He should just be completely unaware of himself and walk out into a bus on the street because he is so smart.

Oh, wait - you actually look both ways before you cross the street? You mean you live your life like that? lol.

I see you have military training, so you got past "buck fever" by training that way. Hunters get it. Athletes in combat sports get it. A person with no training, the first time they are confronted with a full-tilt-boogie situation freeze up.

I realize you tried to convey that but until you show them, until they live it themselves and train out of it - they won't get it.

I think all the gun carriers didn't get it when they **** bricks in Orlando and ran.

The exit is the door you walked in btw

Most people check out where the bogs are and is there a pool table.

And everyone glances round looking at things. It's called curiosity

 

[Aepervius]

Yes I do, but not because of shootings. Ten years stationed on submarines taught me that. Be proactive; know how to react to a problem. Ever been in an earthquake, fire, flooding, wind storms, lightening, vehicle incidents, water currents or other hazardous situations? It pays to be aware of your surroundings no matter who or where you are.

20 years of walking in a bad zone getting attacked more than once, multiple accident, and living through a terrorist attack period, taught me getting pro active all the time is a recept for a nerve breakdown. bad thing will happen. No need to left oneself more open than necessary, but no need to watch for shadow of 0.001% chance of getting killed that way.

 

[Cylinder]

The exit is the door you walked in btw

Except for Great White concerts.

 

[Craig B]

It saved my life already once, and I disarmed the guy with the assault rifle trying to kill me. He did four years for it.

Weighing those two, my life vs. your little straw man - not much of a contest.

Nobody with an assault rifle has ever tried to kill me. How did your assailant come by his assault rifle? Steal it from a military depot? Buy it in a gun shop? And what about people who are old, disabled or in poor health, unable to copy your technique?

To a resident of the UK like me, your posts have the appearance of satire. If they are, I apologise for taking them seriously.

 

[cullennz]

My nephew once shot me with a nerf gun

Semi automatic.

Straight to the shoulder and face.

I put him in a strangle hold

Luckily he regained consciousness before my sis noticed

 

[truethat]

I think all the gun carriers didn't get it when they **** bricks in Orlando and ran.

The exit is the door you walked in btw

Most people check out where the bogs are and is there a pool table.

And everyone glances round looking at things. It's called curiosity

So many people after Orlando said that the problem was that no one in the club had a gun. Meanwhile they ignore that a bunch of cops were outside shooting their way in and it didn't help.

By the time you realize you need to use a gun people are already dead.

I think these types think it's going to be a shooter holding the gun on people like some Bank Robbery scene ala Dog Day Afternoon where the gun holder is actually a good guy deep inside.

They don't do this when they intend to do mass shootings. Their goal is to kill as many people as possible. They come in shooting.

 

[cullennz]

So many people after Orlando said that the problem was that no one in the club had a gun. Meanwhile they ignore that a bunch of cops were outside shooting their way in and it didn't help.

By the time you realize you need to use a gun people are already dead.

I think these types think it's going to be a shooter holding the gun on people like some Bank Robbery scene ala Dog Day Afternoon where the gun holder is actually a good guy deep inside.

They don't do this when they intend to do mass shootings. Their goal is to kill as many people as possible. They come in shooting.

Meant the police shootings.

Embarrssingly may have mixed up cities

 

[truethat]

I think one of the things that needs to happen that I haven't seen happen enough is aggressively OUTING gun stores that sell the guns to the people who use them in a crime.

Because this goes back to regulation. One of my friends has a son who was diagnosed as Schizophrenic. But because he was diagnosed while in school his records are sealed. But he is clearly "off." (Please note that I'm not suggesting that Schizophrenics are all off) He is aggressive and violent. Works at a 7-11. When he was about 10 years old the family got a new dog and when his mom woke up the next day she found him in the pool where he had drowned the dog.

Yet this kid, who has no reason at all to buy a gun, can barely afford a gun went into Dave's sporting goods and bought a gun.

How is this possible? Well legally the gun store couldn't turn him down. So maybe the gun stores themselves need to brought into it.

And before someone says "He could have gotten the gun somewhere else!" Not likely, he's not that savvy. The ease of access is often what contributes to someone's plan turning into reality.

 

[cullennz]

I think one of the things that needs to happen that I haven't seen happen enough is aggressively OUTING gun stores that sell the guns to the people who use them in a crime.

Because this goes back to regulation. One of my friends has a son who was diagnosed as Schizophrenic. But because he was diagnosed while in school his records are sealed. But he is clearly "off." (Please note that I'm not suggesting that Schizophrenics are all off) He is aggressive and violent. Works at a 7-11. When he was about 10 years old the family got a new dog and when his mom woke up the next day she found him in the pool where he had drowned the dog.

Yet this kid, who has no reason at all to buy a gun, can barely afford a gun went into Dave's sporting goods and bought a gun.

How is this possible? Well legally the gun store couldn't turn him down. So maybe the gun stores themselves need to brought into it.

And before someone says "He could have gotten the gun somewhere else!" Not likely, he's not that savvy. The ease of access is often what contributes to someone's plan turning into reality.

They don't have a leg to stand on without regulation

 

[Porpoise of Life]

I think one of the things that needs to happen that I haven't seen happen enough is aggressively OUTING gun stores that sell the guns to the people who use them in a crime.

Because this goes back to regulation. One of my friends has a son who was diagnosed as Schizophrenic. But because he was diagnosed while in school his records are sealed. But he is clearly "off." (Please note that I'm not suggesting that Schizophrenics are all off) He is aggressive and violent. Works at a 7-11. When he was about 10 years old the family got a new dog and when his mom woke up the next day she found him in the pool where he had drowned the dog.

Yet this kid, who has no reason at all to buy a gun, can barely afford a gun went into Dave's sporting goods and bought a gun.

How is this possible? Well legally the gun store couldn't turn him down. So maybe the gun stores themselves need to brought into it.

And before someone says "He could have gotten the gun somewhere else!" Not likely, he's not that savvy. The ease of access is often what contributes to someone's plan turning into reality.

They couldn't, or they weren't obliged to?
If they couldn't turn him down, 'outing' the gun stores won't do anything, they're just following the law.
If they could have turned him down, but didn't, it depends... If they had no way of knowing or checking that he was mentally unstable, why would they refuse his money? There would be nothing to out, because as far as the store was concerned, he was a customer as any other.
If they did know, and wilfully sold a gun to an unstable man, 'outing' the store might help a little, but fundamentally, the system appears to be broken*, and I'm not sure that blaming retailers is going to have an effect.

*At least, if the job of said system is to keep guns out of the hands of violent schizophrenics.

 

[truethat]

They couldn't, or they weren't obliged to?
If they couldn't turn him down, 'outing' the gun stores won't do anything, they're just following the law.
If they could have turned him down, but didn't, it depends... If they had no way of knowing or checking that he was mentally unstable, why would they refuse his money? There would be nothing to out, because as far as the store was concerned, he was a customer as any other.
If they did know, and wilfully sold a gun to an unstable man, 'outing' the store might help a little, but fundamentally, the system appears to be broken*, and I'm not sure that blaming retailers is going to have an effect.

*At least, if the job of said system is to keep guns out of the hands of violent schizophrenics.

Because the issue is that the gun stores are our first defense in preventing them from getting into the hands of lunatics.

We never talk about that. We just keep playing ping pong with the second Amendment. And it's exactly the issues you bring up.

There are Responsible gun store owners that probably feel that they don't want to sell the person the gun but their hands are tied.

There are irresponsible gun store owners that don't care and just want to make money. They fly under the radar and bear no responsibility because of the legality of it.

For example if someone came into your store and bought a shovel, tarp, and lye. They bought duck tape, zip ties and rope. And they bought gasoline and a lighter. There's nothing illegal about buying these things.

Some store owners would call the cops. Some wouldn't care at all.

You could be using those things legally. But it sure as heck looks like the person might be intending to use them to kill someone and dispose of the body.

Reporting suspicious looking people who are buying guns might seem a little "Big Brother" to some people but at least it would give the Responsible store owners the opportunity to prevent a crime. Maybe mandatory reporting is the way to go. The same way teachers are required to report if a child looks like they are being abused. It includes the school in the responsibility of the safety of the child, even outside their building.


Perhaps this strategy will make the store owners responsible for this as well. And if they know that they will be held responsible, even by social pressure, it may change the chain of how these things happen.

ETA There's already something like this in place for buying multiple guns. But it seems the law is aimed at trafficking issues, not safety issues.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center...firearms-sales-or-other-disposition-reporting

 

[arthwollipot]

For once, art, I agree with your post 100%.

Happens occasionally.

 

[smartcooky]

I see you have military training, so you got past "buck fever" by training that way. Hunters get it. Athletes in combat sports get it. A person with no training, the first time they are confronted with a full-tilt-boogie situation freeze up.

I realize you tried to convey that but until you show them, until they live it themselves and train out of it - they won't get it.

THIS!!!

I have had military training, and I did a short TOD in the ME back in the late 1980's. I have had real bullets whistling by very close to me, and even with the military training, it still scared the *********** bejesus out of me.

I read a lot of big noting here by a few gun nuts talking up their "I'z gonna defend muh family with muh guns", but I'll bet very few of them have even been shot at, and those who haven't will have no *********** idea whatsoever of what its really like or how it feels.

 

[Dr.Sid]

THIS!!!

I have had military training, and I did a short TOD in the ME back in the late 1980's. I have had real bullets whistling by very close to me, and even with the military training, it still scared the *********** bejesus out of me.

I read a lot of big noting here by a few gun nuts talking up their "I'z gonna defend muh family with muh guns", but I'll bet very few of them have even been shot at, and those who haven't will have no *********** idea whatsoever of what its really like or how it feels.

Doesn't matter how it feels. If you get shot at, would you rather had a gun yourself, or not ? If your family was under fire, would you rather had a gun, or not ?

 

[truethat]

THIS!!!

I have had military training, and I did a short TOD in the ME back in the late 1980's. I have had real bullets whistling by very close to me, and even with the military training, it still scared the *********** bejesus out of me.

I read a lot of big noting here by a few gun nuts talking up their "I'z gonna defend muh family with muh guns", but I'll bet very few of them have even been shot at, and those who haven't will have no *********** idea whatsoever of what its really like or how it feels.

Thank you guys for pointing this out. It amazes me how many gun owners think they are going to do a "Bruce Willis" move and dive across the room shooting with a direct hit, when they are confronted by a lunatic, just because they own a gun and have practiced shooting at a gun range.

 

[Amazer]

Doesn't matter how it feels. If you get shot at, would you rather had a gun yourself, or not ? If your family was under fire, would you rather had a gun, or not ?

I'd rather reduce the likelihood that my family comes under fire.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[truethat]

Doesn't matter how it feels. If you get shot at, would you rather had a gun yourself, or not ? If your family was under fire, would you rather had a gun, or not ?

It depends. It's funny, a woman I was talking to a few weeks ago said that at night she pulls the gate down when she closes the bar and one of her customers keeps trying to come back in not realizing that he's putting her at risk by pulling the gate back up when she is counting out the bank deposit.

She asked one of her friends who is a police officer if he'd sit with her when she counted out and he said no. He said he never lets people know that he's an off duty police officer because if someone were to come in and rob the place he'd be the first person shot. I never thought of it that way before.

But if I had a gun and knew how to use it, was experienced in being shot at etc, I might want to have the gun. But just to have a gun? No. If I had a gun my family and I would likely become instant targets. Who is the first person you would shoot if you were trying to kill as many people as you could and someone had a gun?


And again, you're presenting this like you KNOW that the person has a gun and he's holding everyone at gun point giving you time to draw. If I were to come in somewhere to do a shooting, the first thing I'd do is scan the room to see if I could see if someone was carrying (I'm not saying you can always tell) and then shoot those people first.

 

[Craig B]

Doesn't matter how it feels. If you get shot at, would you rather had a gun yourself, or not ? If your family was under fire, would you rather had a gun, or not ?

If my family was under fire, of course. But with fewer guns in circulation fewer families come under fire. Here, not even the police carry guns in the course of their normal duties.