Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

You cannot read. Both convicting courts said there was no planning. No one tried to "plan the perfect murder".

So you concur Rudy, Amanda and Raff were there by mutual accident and 'things just spiralled out of control'?


Imagine you were the judge. You don't want Big Daddy Court slapping your wrists and criticising your MR. So you find the path of least resistance.

Why would you write there was premeditation when you have the guilty verdict anyway, without having to reason through it.

Having decided on 'sex game on wrong' and a'choice for evil', it saves you the bother of making your MR watertight against appeal - as premeditation is a loaded minefield to establish without some prima facie evidence - as you haven't introduced a potentially appellable point of law (such as premeditation).

As a judge, you are required to do just enough to have done your duty and draw your handsome fee, or salary.

 

[LondonJohn]

Micheli spelt out Rudy was an accessory, with two others, Amanda and Raff, and it was not /Rudy who inflicted the death wound.

Massei, Nencini and Bruno-Marasca also spelt it out.

Micheli, Massei and Nencini did (though not to the extreme degree you pretend they did). But they were wrong and unlawful in that assessment. The Supreme Court saw to that. And it's a blatant untruth to suggest that the Marasca SC panel stated (or even implied) that Guede was merely "an accessory".

Again, you ought to learn that the Supreme Court cannot and will not countermand or contradict the rulings of previous trial proceedings that have reached SC finality - to do so is to open a judicial (and possibly constitutional) can of worms. So the Marasca SC panel was essentially bound to respect the rulings of the courts in Guede's trial process. A careful, intelligent reading of the Marasca motivation report shows clearly that its lip service to Guede's verdict (and, for that matter, its lip service to Knox's SC-ratified criminal slander conviction) is nothing more than that.

You also need to understand that the role of all the courts (including the SC) in 21st-century Italy is SOLELY AND EXCLUSIVELY to determine whether there is sufficient evidence (with that evidence being considered and treated in accordance with the law) to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused person(s) committed the crime(s) with which he/she/they were charged and tried. The Marasca SC panel makes it abundantly clear that not only was this evidential hurdle not met with respect to Knox and Sollecito and all the murder-related criminal charges, but that in fact the case was an extraordinarily long way from even getting close to reaching that hurdle. Hence the acquittals, annulments and the ruling not to put Knox or Sollecito (or indeed the Italian criminal justice system) through any more of this crap with another retrial.

 

[Vixen]

LOL! Bruno-Marasca "spelled out" that Amanda inflicted the death wound? You cannot read if you believe that.

Micheli didn't specify that, but he did stipulate Rudy was not the main killer.

Massei said he was the instigator, but even backward-bending Massei had to concede it was Amanda who struck the final blow.

 

[Stacyhs]

It's all PR. We know Amanda was on a high because of her behaviour shortly after the body was found at the Questura. She was laughing, joking, pulling faces at Raff and sexually excited. No wonder the police, the housemates and the British girls were shocked.

Uh huh. Adrenaline rushes happen immediately after an event, not the next day. And she'd have worked off that adrenaline high with all her work cleaning Meredith's room of all that invisible DNA and fingerprints of hers and Raff's.

But this is my favorite; she was "sexually excited"! Next you'll have her rubbing up against Giobbi and pole dancing for Mignini.We saw the same phenomena with Joanna Dehenny, female serial killer diagnosed psychopath and with the Manson girls. Like Amanda, the Manson girls thought the court was a great laugh.

What? No mention of Casey Anthony? You're slipping.

 

[LondonJohn]

So you concur Rudy, Amanda and Raff were there by mutual accident and 'things just spiralled out of control'?


Imagine you were the judge. You don't want Big Daddy Court slapping your wrists and criticising your MR. So you find the path of least resistance.

Why would you write there was premeditation when you have the guilty verdict anyway, without having to reason through it.

Having decided on 'sex game on wrong' and a'choice for evil', it saves you the bother of making your MR watertight against appeal - as premeditation is a loaded minefield to establish without some prima facie[/I evidence] - as you haven't introduced a potentially appellable points of law (such as premeditation).

As a judge, you are required to do just enough to have done your duty and draw your handsome fee, or salary.

No. Bill and I concur that Guede broke into the girls' cottage (very probably alone, and certainly without the presence of Knox or Sollecito), was surprised by Kercher returning home, could not escape a confrontation, and initiated a physical attack that turned into a violent sexual murder. And we concur that Sollecito and Knox were almost certainly inside Sollecito's apartment during the whole of that evening.

 

[Bill Williams]

Unfortunately, one of the assailants left behind a ladies size 37 footprint covered in blood, underneath Mez' body. It had a narrow heel, so you would be really reaching to claim, 'Oh that was Rudy's too!'

Once again, you cannot read. The Massei court expressed an opinion that it was impossible to determine the origin of that print. Massei explicitly states that Rudy Guede cannot be ruled out as the owner of that print.

Yet you present it as if it's iron-clad against Knox. Once again, you do not believe the Massei report.

 

[Bill Williams]

So you concur Rudy, Amanda and Raff were there by mutual accident and 'things just spiralled out of control'?


Imagine you were the judge. You don't want Big Daddy Court slapping your wrists and criticising your MR. So you find the path of least resistance.

Why would you write there was premeditation when you have the guilty verdict anyway, without having to reason through it.
Having decided on 'sex game on wrong' and a'choice for evil', it saves you the bother of making your MR watertight against appeal - as premeditation is a loaded minefield to establish without some prima facie[/I evidence] - as you haven't introduced a potentially appellable points of law (such as premeditation).

As a judge, you are required to do just enough to have done your duty and draw your handsome fee, or salary.

Wow. You have this conspiracy theory that Massei wilfully and with malice wrote stuff that (acc. to you) did not fit the evidence. That Massei massaged his report for selfish reasons.

Just how far does this conspiracy extend!? What you ignore is that Massei actually found reason to write that there was NO premeditation. Period. You fail to address that issue, preferring to offer up judicial chicanery.

A conspiratorial mind is what you have, to cement the holes of your thought.

 

[Bill Williams]

No. Bill and I concur that Guede broke into the girls' cottage (very probably alone, and certainly without the presence of Knox or Sollecito), was surprised by Kercher returning home, could not escape a confrontation, and initiated a physical attack that turned into a violent sexual murder. And we concur that Sollecito and Knox were almost certainly inside Sollecito's apartment during the whole of that evening.

There is no credible evidence that this is anything other than what happened. In response Vixen has to invent a size 37 **women's** shoe, when Massei wrote that Rudy could not be ruled out as the owner of that foot-track.

 

[LondonJohn]

Unfortunately, one of the assailants left behind a ladies size 37 footprint covered in blood, underneath Mez' body. It had a narrow heel, so you would be really reaching to claim, 'Oh that was Rudy's too!'

Oops. It was two overlaid portions of a man's size 44-46 Nike Outbreak 2 trainer. It was a shocking and inept misattribution by the police forensic analysts - one of a number of embarrassing and horrendous mistakes they made in respect of the shoe print/foot print evidence. It can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the imprints on the pillow case came from a 44-46 Nike Outbreak 2 trainer. The size and type that Guede admitted to wearing on the night of the murder.

You really need to acquaint yourself with the proper scientific analysis of the evidence. Or do you also believe that the prints in the hallway matched Sollecito's Reebok trainers, or that the partial foot print on the bath mat matches Sollecito's with "millimetre accuracy" and can be positively discounted as Guede's?

 

[Vixen]

Micheli, Massei and Nencini did (though not to the extreme degree you pretend they did). But they were wrong and unlawful in that assessment. The Supreme Court saw to that. And it's a blatant untruth to suggest that the Marasca SC panel stated (or even implied) that Guede was merely "an accessory".

Again, you ought to learn that the Supreme Court cannot and will not countermand or contradict the rulings of previous trial proceedings that have reached SC finality - to do so is to open a judicial (and possibly constitutional) can of worms. So the Marasca SC panel was essentially bound to respect the rulings of the courts in Guede's trial process. A careful, intelligent reading of the Marasca motivation report shows clearly that its lip service to Guede's verdict (and, for that matter, its lip service to Knox's SC-ratified criminal slander conviction) is nothing more than that.

You also need to understand that the role of all the courts (including the SC) in 21st-century Italy is SOLELY AND EXCLUSIVELY to determine whether there is sufficient evidence (with that evidence being considered and treated in accordance with the law) to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused person(s) committed the crime(s) with which he/she/they were charged and tried. The Marasca SC panel makes it abundantly clear that not only was this evidential hurdle not met with respect to Knox and Sollecito and all the murder-related criminal charges, but that in fact the case was an extraordinarily long way from even getting close to reaching that hurdle. Hence the acquittals, annulments and the ruling not to put Knox or Sollecito (or indeed the Italian criminal justice system) through any more of this crap with another retrial.

You need to understand it matters not one iota what Bruno-Marasca 'really think' (= "they had to play along with the other courts even though they didn't agree with it"). This fallacious way of thinking leads to the aforementioned erroneous assumption 'Bruno-Marasca's hands were tied, that's why they said what they did'.

The law is actually very logical, methodical, chronological and verdict bound.

 

[Vixen]

What? No mention of Casey Anthony? You're slipping.

Uh huh. Adrenaline rushes happen immediately after an event, not the next day. And she'd have worked off that adrenaline high with all her work cleaning Meredith's room of all that invisible DNA and fingerprints of hers and Raff's.

They were all taken to the Questura the same day the body was found. Amanda just wanted to get a red g-string and have 'wild sex'.

It was Giobbi's perception she 'came on' to him.

 

[LondonJohn]

You need to understand it matters not one iota what Bruno-Marasca 'really think' (= "they had to play along with the other courts even though they didn't agree with it"). This fallacious way of thinking leads to the aforementioned erroneous assumption 'Bruno-Marasca's hands were tied, that's why they said what they did'.

The law is actually very logical, methodical, chronological and verdict bound.

Indeed it is. And can you remember what the verdict of the Marasca SC panel was? Let me know if you need help remembering what it was and what it signified. I'll be happy to help with this one

 

[LondonJohn]

It was Giobbi's perception she 'came on' to him.

No. Wrong (and overblown) once again. It was Giobbi's "perception" (at least it was his "perception" when he was basking in the glory of the police "solving the crime" in November/December 2007) that Knox had made inappropriate hip movements and vocalisations. He was in essence bragging to a reporter that he had used his awesome "detective's instincts" to figure out that Knox was involved. Oops!

 

[Vixen]

No. Bill and I concur that Guede broke into the girls' cottage (very probably alone, and certainly without the presence of Knox or Sollecito), was surprised by Kercher returning home, could not escape a confrontation, and initiated a physical attack that turned into a violent sexual murder. And we concur that Sollecito and Knox were almost certainly inside Sollecito's apartment during the whole of that evening.

Well, it's a shame none of the courts agree with you.

 

[LondonJohn]

They were all taken to the Questura the same day the body was found. Amanda just wanted to get a red g-string and have 'wild sex'.

It was Giobbi's perception she 'came on' to him.

Reliable evidence that Knox a) wanted to get a red g-string, and/or b) wanted to have "wild sex", please.

(And the uncorroborated word of a shop worker does not count)

 

[bagels]

I was responding to bagels, who claimed there's no way Amanda and Raff preplanned the crime with Rudy.

I pointed out there was no logical compulsion for them to do so. If someone wants to plan a 'perfect murder', then bring in someone whom you can use as the fall guy.

I didn't say there's no way, I said there's no evidence. If you want to believe they planned and carried out a perfect genius murder to make it look exactly like a lone burglar with a history of identical break-ins broke in and murdered Meredith during a break-in gone bad, I wont stop you.

But please don't pretend like there was some sort of coherent criminal case, cause, like, it's silly to do that. Why don't you cut it out?

 

[Vixen]

Once again, you cannot read. The Massei court expressed an opinion that it was impossible to determine the origin of that print. Massei explicitly states that Rudy Guede cannot be ruled out as the owner of that print.

Yet you present it as if it's iron-clad against Knox. Once again, you do not believe the Massei report.

Be sensible. Rudy cannot have crammed his size 43's into a narrow heeled ladies size 37.

Once again we see Massei not bothering to argue.

 

[Vixen]

Wow. You have this conspiracy theory that Massei wilfully and with malice wrote stuff that (acc. to you) did not fit the evidence. That Massei massaged his report for selfish reasons.

Just how far does this conspiracy extend!? What you ignore is that Massei actually found reason to write that there was NO premeditation. Period. You fail to address that issue, preferring to offer up judicial chicanery.

A conspiratorial mind is what you have, to cement the holes of your thought.

Having gone for the easy route of sudden violence after a fight, then of course he has got the whole question of premeditation out of the way. He DID say they made 'a choice for evil' and that their motive was 'a futile' one (i.e., an asocial, amoral one).

 

[LondonJohn]

Well, it's a shame none of the courts agree with you.

Do you seriously, seriously think that the Marasca SC panel concluded that Knox and Sollecito participated in the murder, and that there's evidence to support that conclusion, but that they decided to acquit, annul and throw out the case against them nonetheless?

I will also direct you, once again, to the fact that the job of the Italian criminal courts (including the Marasca SC panel) is solely to determine whether or not there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused committed the crime(s). It is not the job of the courts to determine exactly what happened.

 

[bagels]

Be sensible. Rudy cannot have crammed his size 43's into a narrow heeled ladies size 37.

Once again we see Massei not bothering to argue.

Please quote this image and say "one was Rudy's and the other was Amanda's"