There were certainly three loud shots. If there were additional shots, they wouldn't have to be literally silent to be confused with echoes. When a witness says "I heard three shots", they are really saying "I heard three LOUD shots". Suppression technology obviously wasn't as good as it is now, but it didn't need to be if suppressed shots are being crowded near the sounds a much louder shots.
I already suggested you read the thread in its entirety and the predecessor thread. I even provided a link to where Bob Harris first appeared arguing the same points you're arguing now.
While just a few posts ago, you were citing the witnesses and telling us how their testimony about the shots they heard leads inexorably to one conclusion, now you're saying the witnesses aren't reliable and they actually heard a lot more shots than they reported.
Doesn't that call into question your prior posts on this subject?
I don't think I would be so simplistic. HSCA's panel of photographic experts determined that Kennedy's actions at ~Z190+ are consistent with being struck by a bullet. At the very least, he may be reacting to a loud and startling gunshot.
At the point they concluded that, they were wedded to the acoustic evidence, and were trying to shoehorn three shots from Oswald into what the acoustic evidence supposedly indicated. Of course, the acoustic evidence was later exposed as nonsense, because the scientists involved (BB&N and W&A) were looking at the wrong portion of the tape...about one minute after the shots were fired.
I also don't want to ignore the photographic evidence that Connally is shot at Z224. You may point out that Kennedy's hands can be seen to begin moving upwards at Z226 (the same frame as Connally's lapel flap), but honestly take a good look at frame Z225-226. Kennedy's hands were in front of his chest some time before he came from behind the sign, and his mouth is clearly open.
JFK and Connally were struck by the same missile. Both the WC and the HSCA concluded that. If you differ, explain what happened in your scenario to each bullet, and where the shooters were, and provide the evidence for each. I'd love to hear it.
There is a pretty good case to be made that Kennedy was hit before Connally, or at least he was reacting to a loud and startling shot before one bullet passed both men at Z224 (I'm not here to argue if it did).
Well, that's an integral part of any recreation of the assassination, I would think.
I think It's already been established, via witness accounts, that there was no first shot before Z190.
I'm not sure about that.
Connolly always swore that he heard a loud shot a moment before being hit by a bullet, however he never said that he actually heard the shot that struck him (he saw the Zapruder film and said that frame 234 was probably the moment he was struck). Again, this can be explained if suppressors were used.
Or if he was struck by the second shot fired, and his body was overwhelmed by the sensation of being shot through the trunk, so much so that he simply didn't recall or didn't hear the second shot whatsoever, because his nervous system was overwhelmed at that point. The frames he picked are simply about a third of a second after he was actually struck.
And he didn't pick 234. He picked the range of Z231-234:
== quote ==
Governor CONNALLY. As we looked at them this morning, and as you related the numbers to me, it appeared to me that I was hit in the range between 130 or 131, I don't remember precisely, up to 134, in that bracket.
Mr. SPECTER. May I suggest to you that it was 231?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, 231 and 234, then.
Mr. SPECTER. The series under our numbering system starts with a higher number when the car comes around the turn, so when you come out of the sign, which was----
Governor CONNALLY. It was just after we came out of the sign, for whatever that sequence of numbers was, and if it was 200, I correct my testimony. It was 231 to about 234. It was within that range.
== unquote ==
The most important part is this, which you left out: "Following the first shot Mr. AULT noted that President KENNEDY appeared to raise up in his seat in the Presidential automobile and after the second shot the President slumped into his seat."
I was pointing out the conflicts between your putative scenario and a witness selected at random. We can continue this for all your witnesses, if you wish.
Cecil Ault was only heard from once, and the FBI report isn't even his own words.
I'm sorry, did you exclude all FBI witness reports on that basis, or is this just an after-the-fact criticism of what he's reported to have said?
And your criticism of James Altgens testimony is what, precisely?
Of course, what you're doing is the oldest trick in the book.
There is no trick. There are two witnesses selected at random... I took the first two witnesses (alphabetically) in Dealey Plaza that gave reports. Both conflicted with your scenario.
Most witnesses placed the last two shots close together, if not almost on top of eachother. Even the Warren Comission admitted that.
Read the prior thread through to this point. All that was covered with Bob Harris in detail.
When you have over 200 witnesses all describing the same event, it is ridiculous to say that none of it matters.
Where did I say anything of the sort? Please don't put words in my mouth.
So what? He perceived one loud shot at ~Z190-224, and the 313 shot. I think the reason why there were many witnesses only remembering two shots is that, to some people, the last two shots were so close together they almost blended into one.
See the discussion prior to your arrival. It might help. Also, I would also caution you to not put words in the witnesses mouths either. Altgens said nothing about shots at Z190-224 nor 313. That is your opinion of what he saw and heard. So make it clear in the future when you're claiming a witness said something, versus when you're interpreting their statement to fit your scenario.
Thanks!
Do you agree that there was no first missed shot at ~Z160 or before?
I think the possibility of a shot before Z155 or so is extremely remote.
Hank
