Russia is trying to influence the U.S. election

[The Big Dog]

I am impressed that the Hillary spin gets out so quickly.

Fortunately critical thinkers know that the defense is an ad hominem fallcy writ large.

No matter who exposed the sleazy underbelly, the under belly is sleazy.

 

[Tony Stark]

The deal is an absolute disaster. Iran has proceeded apace with its missile development program, and it has violated its heavy water production quotas already (we have offered to buy the excess to help them comply - how nutty is that?). Also, there have been several updates to the information we had about the deal, and it is much worse than I had believed a year ago. Iran will effectively have greater enrichment capacity in less than 10 years' time than it did before the deal. Even according to the letter of the agreement. It's crazy. On top of that, Iran continues to fund terrorism around the Middle East and spread its crazy ideology. The economic deals it is doing with the rest of the world cannot be undone, and the unfreezing of their assets is obviously irreversible too. We had them over a barrel because of low oil prices, and Obama bailed them out. If Obama actually were a Manchurian candidate for Iran, I'm at a loss as to what he would have done differently.

Nonsense. Just admit you won't admit the deal is successful even if Iran never gets nukes. I know you won't. You know I know you won't.

It is a fact that because of the deal Iran's nuclear program was greatly set back. Deal with it.

 

[sunmaster14]

Nonsense. Just admit you won't admit the deal is successful even if Iran never gets nukes. I know you won't. You know I know you won't.

Of course I won't because there is not, and never was, a 100% chance that Iran would get nukes. It's not at all clear they think it is in their best interests actually to cross the threshold. Being within striking distance - say 3 months - might be a perfectly acceptable strategic position for them. That being said, they are more likely to be a nuclear threshold state in less than 10 years after the deal than before. Furthermore, they can be a threshold state with impunity. Thanks to Obama, the international community has lent its imprimatur to Iran being a threshold state. To be honest, it would be better that Iran have some illicit nuclear weapons and remain an international pariah than be a nuclear threshold state and have normalized relations with everybody it wants. The latter is far more dangerous, unless Iran's government is changed completely.

It is a fact that because of the deal Iran's nuclear program was greatly set back. Deal with it.

It doesn't seem like you're quite clear on the meaning of the word "fact." Your claim is about as far from a fact as it's possible to get without being provably false.

 

[Tony Stark]

Of course I won't because there is not, and never was, a 100% chance that Iran would get nukes. It's not at all clear they think it is in their best interests actually to cross the threshold. Being within striking distance - say 3 months - might be a perfectly acceptable strategic position for them. That being said, they are more likely to be a nuclear threshold state in less than 10 years after the deal than before. Furthermore, they can be a threshold state with impunity. Thanks to Obama, the international community has lent its imprimatur to Iran being a threshold state. To be honest, it would be better that Iran have some illicit nuclear weapons and remain an international pariah than be a nuclear threshold state and have normalized relations with everybody it wants. The latter is far more dangerous, unless Iran's government is changed completely.



It doesn't seem like you're quite clear on the meaning of the word "fact." Your claim is about as far from a fact as it's possible to get without being provably false.

Just as I knew. Already thought up your ridiculous excuse for when the deal does what it intended to and everything.

I know exactly what a fact is. And yes, it is a fact that the deal greatly set their nuclear program back. You would just rather not give Obama credit for that fact, so you're in extreme denial.

 

[The Big Dog]

And now the dnc emails are a conspiracy theory.

I guess D in the DNC stands for denial.

 

[acbytesla]

According to the precedent that my liberal friends, as well as the moderators (but I repeat myself), have established here, it seems like this thread belongs in C&CT. I cannot report it, however, because I have been threatened with suspension if I do.

As to the merits of the conspiracy theory itself, I think it is quite plausible. Donald Trump may in fact be favorably disposed to Russia, which, to be honest, might not be a bad thing. At least the Russian government is relatively civilized and is reasonably likely to reciprocate a good faith overture. Contrast that with Iran, to which Obama has been favorably disposed. We have bent over backwards for Iran, and gotten screwed as a result. At least Putin would give us a reach around I bet.

Relatively civilized? Was that before or after the Pogroms? Was that after Stalin? or Lenin? Tell that to gays and lesbians. Russia was on the road to becoming a liberal Western democracy and it reverted to an authoritarian despotic and now poses a threat to Eastern Europe.

Trump's signal to Russia that they can now just take Eastern Europe back is MORONIC.

 

[acbytesla]

And now the dnc emails are a conspiracy theory.

I guess D in the DNC stands for denial.

There's no conspiracy. If you didn't know that the DNC was firmly in Clinton's camp you would have to be blind.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Lest anyone interpret 16.5's recent post as criticism of the DNC, let me point out that 16.5 was attacking sunmaster14's characterization of this brouhaha as a "conspiracy theory".

And now the dnc emails are a conspiracy theory.

I guess D in the DNC stands for denial.

As a simple search of this thread will confirm, it was sunmaster14 who first suggested this discussion of the leaked DNC emails involves a conspiracy theory that belongs in the C&CT subforum. sunmaster14 also expressed his belief that his conspiracy theory is "quite plausible", and said Trump's apparently favorable opinion of Russia "might not be a bad thing" because "the Russian government is relatively civilized" and "reasonably likely to reciprocate a good faith overture":

According to the precedent that my liberal friends, as well as the moderators (but I repeat myself), have established here, it seems like this thread belongs in C&CT. I cannot report it, however, because I have been threatened with suspension if I do.

As to the merits of the conspiracy theory itself, I think it is quite plausible. Donald Trump may in fact be favorably disposed to Russia, which, to be honest, might not be a bad thing. At least the Russian government is relatively civilized and is reasonably likely to reciprocate a good faith overture. Contrast that with Iran, to which Obama has been favorably disposed. We have bent over backwards for Iran, and gotten screwed as a result. At least Putin would give us a reach around I bet.

 

[Cain]

We need a strong leader like Putin, not a limp-wristed dictator like Obama.

 

[Puppycow]

According to the precedent that my liberal friends, as well as the moderators (but I repeat myself), have established here, it seems like this thread belongs in C&CT. I cannot report it, however, because I have been threatened with suspension if I do.

As to the merits of the conspiracy theory itself, I think it is quite plausible. Donald Trump may in fact be favorably disposed to Russia, which, to be honest, might not be a bad thing. At least the Russian government is relatively civilized and is reasonably likely to reciprocate a good faith overture. Contrast that with Iran, to which Obama has been favorably disposed. We have bent over backwards for Iran, and gotten screwed as a result. At least Putin would give us a reach around I bet.

"Relatively civilized" compared to Iran, or to the West? If the former, you damn with faint praise. And I take issue with your assertion that "Obama has been favorably disposed" toward Iran or that we "bent over backwards" for them.

In the case of Russia, Obama actually tried to be more friendly to them. It was kind of hard to keep doing that after Russia started invading other countries though. If anything, Mitt Romney more that Trump has been vindicated about Russia.

As far as the Iran deal goes, what would your preferred policy have been?

 

[Darat]

Thread needs a clean out to remove the many Rule 11 breaches. Whilst waiting for that to happen it is being placed on moderated status.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Beerina]

Plus Putin knows that Donald would severely damage the reputation of the United States. And even drive the US economy to the ground if he is allowed to do what he says. He's also an idiot and would be very easy to manipulate (just flatter him).

Looks like we'll need another president after Donald to do a reset with Russia and lift us right up out of the disaster economy!

 

[Puppycow]

Here is a New York Times article on this:

As Democrats Gather, a Russian Subplot Raises Intrigue

By DAVID E. SANGER JULY 24, 2016

WASHINGTON — An unusual question is capturing the attention of cyberspecialists, Russia experts and Democratic Party leaders in Philadelphia: Is Vladimir V. Putin trying to meddle in the American presidential election?

Until Friday, that charge — with its eerie suggestion of a conspiracy drawn up in the Kremlin to aid Donald J. Trump — has been only whispered.

But the release on Friday of some 20,000 stolen emails from the Democratic National Committee’s computer servers, many of them embarrassing to Democratic leaders, has intensified discussion of the role of Russian intelligence agencies in disrupting the 2016 campaign.

Continues.

 

[kmortis]

Clean-out complete, please keep it to the topic at hand, and not about the other posters or any random thought that comes to mind.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis

 

[NoahFence]

The deal is an absolute disaster. Iran has proceeded apace with its missile development program, and it has violated its heavy water production quotas already

Citation needed.

(we have offered to buy the excess to help them comply - how nutty is that?).

Not very.

 

[Axxman300]

Hold the phone. The Russians are trying to influence the election process of a foreign country by the use of dubious actions?

...How...American...

 

[Puppycow]

George Will: Trump Doesn't Want to Release Tax Returns "Because He's Deeply Involved In Dealing With Russia"

Ah, so that's what he's trying to hide.

Should be easy to clear up: just release the returns. Unless of course, it's really true.

 

[theprestige]

Hold the phone. The Russians are trying to influence the election process of a foreign country by the use of dubious actions?

...How...American...: thumbsup : : D

I'm not even convinced it's that dubious.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'm not even convinced it's that dubious.

You're OK with Putin trying to get his guy into the White House?

 

[Puppycow]

Jennifer Rubin (right-wing Republican) in the Washington Post:

Trump proves he’s a Putin lapdog