Merged Now What?

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Argumemnon said:
I don't understand your question. Are you saying that what you identify as is the only driver of a desire for independence?
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What I am saying is that if nationality as defined by citizenship was the only important factor there would never be any independence movement anywhere because the 'reality' (as you say) is that they would be the same nationality as the people they choose to be independent from.

So there must be 'something' else that any group seeking independence uses to differentiate itself whether that's Ukrainians, Scots, Kurds or whatever.

That 'something' is their identity.
 
:rolleyes:

Uh, here's something I just pulled off Reuters; perhaps you've spoken of it today already:

"I think Article 50 should be triggered when we're ready. The most important thing right now is we do what's in our national interest," Grayling told Sky News.

"We get ourselves ready for the negotiation, we decide what kind of relationship we want to negotiate, and then we move ahead and trigger Article 50. We'll do it right, we'll do it in a proper way, we'll do it when we're ready."
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Interested in other posters' opinions on this, UKians mostly. Me, as you already might know, it bugs to no end, and as far as current events are concerned, it reminds me most of China's response to the ICJ ruling on the Spratlys.

Perhaps you might care to assuage my concerns about surging self-interest.

ETA: Makes better sense in context: German leaders demand Brexit clarity from new British PM
 
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Argumemnon said:
I don't understand your question. Are you saying that what you identify as is the only driver of a desire for independence?
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My guess is you might need to experience having an identity that is not a citizenship to grok this. It is sort of a puddle-matching-ground illusion when the two are the same. (Gets even worse when three items coincide: race,* identity, nationality. See Japan and Korea, and for the most part, China.)




ETA: *Yeah, yeah, race is not a scientific concept. I refer to common use of language and the improper yet culturally useful minor differences taken as such in the examples given.
 
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
What I am saying is that if nationality as defined by citizenship was the only important factor there would never be any independence movement anywhere because the 'reality' (as you say) is that they would be the same nationality as the people they choose to be independent from.
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I know this is what you're saying and I disagree with it. I can be aware that my nationality is Canadian but I want to change it, I don't need to pretend that my 'identity' is different until the change I want to bring about has been brought about.

Hlafordlaes said:
My guess is you might need to experience having an identity that is not a citizenship to grok this.
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I reject this sort of thinking. The very idea of rationalism and objective inquiry is that you don't need to experience a thing yourself in order to either understand or demonstrate it.
 
Argumemnon said:
... I reject this sort of thinking. The very idea of rationalism and objective inquiry is that you don't need to experience a thing yourself in order to either understand or demonstrate it.
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Sound advice I wish I could have managed following when chasing my first girls...
 
Argumemnon said:
I know this is what you're saying and I disagree with it. I can be aware that my nationality is Canadian but I want to change it, I don't need to pretend that my 'identity' is different until the change I want to bring about has been brought about.
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Why would you want to change it?
What would you want to change it to?

You don't have to pretend anything. Unless you want to pretend that having a different passport is somehow magic that changes how you see yourself.
 
Argumemnon said:
The very idea of rationalism and objective inquiry is that you don't need to experience a thing yourself in order to either understand or demonstrate it.
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But when someone attempted to demonstrate it and explain it to you it was simply dismissed as disagreeing with reality.

You are Canadian, am I right?

If Trump invaded and took over would you become American overnight?
 
Argumemnon said:
I know this is what you're saying and I disagree with it. I can be aware that my nationality is Canadian but I want to change it, I don't need to pretend that my 'identity' is different until the change I want to bring about has been brought about.
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UK teams at the recent Euro 2016 football explain it well enough to me.

Wales, England and N.Ireland all qualified for the finals, and the players and fans all carried a UK passport. But they all 'identified' with their home country, namely Wales, England and N.Ireland. They wore their nations' colours and sang their nations' anthems.

Each probably has a 'primary' identity that would be that of their home country. Their secondary identity might be British. Some (like me) feel attached enough to Europe to consider themselves European, though at a much lower level of attachment than those other 'identities'.
 
GlennB said:
UK teams at the recent Euro 2016 football explain it well enough to me.

Wales, England and N.Ireland all qualified for the finals, and the players and fans all carried a UK passport. But they all 'identified' with their home country, namely Wales, England and N.Ireland. They wore their nations' colours and sang their nations' anthems.........
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...........and cheered when other Home Nations lost. :mad:
 
The Don said:
Not this Bremainer - I'd see it as the least worst way forward.

Personally I think that will be unacceptable politically to the Conservative Party and we'll be out-out-out (out of the EU, out of the EEA and the way that May is so anti ECHR out of the council of Europe so we can have the death penalty back - so beloved of the blue rinse brigade) and damn the consequences :(
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And out of money. If this happened the UK services sector would be decimated; my prediction of a 10% drop in UK GDP would be the minimum.
 
catsmate said:
And out of money. If this happened the UK services sector would be decimated; my prediction of a 10% drop in UK GDP would be the minimum.
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The ravens are also circling over the UK finance sector, ready and willing to rend and consume it if and when Brexit goes ahead. Here's a croak from Brussels, a new arrival at the prospective feast.

Theresa May says she's going to make a "success" of Brexit. I wish the best of luck both to her and to the people of the UK.
 
Francesca R said:
I think you'll find economic forecasts are easy to get badly wrong. Even if you have a degree in economics. Do you?
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I haven't but I've noticed my seaweed is twisting to the right and that usually means I've a 50/50 chance of the market either going up or down tomorrow.
 
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