Merged Now What?

[Dave Rogers]

It's not, hence I'm proposing something somewhat different: a general election. If the electorate is sure about leaving the EU surely a Leave party will win.

Not sure about that. Though I'd like to believe it was feasible, general elections are not and cannot be fought on that narrow a set of issues, because whoever wins also gets to run the government for five years. There are only two parties likely to have a definite stance on Leave/Remain, UKIP and LibDems respectively. UKIP may be too extreme for the majority of Tory Leavers and would be unthinkable for most Labour Leavers, and the LibDems are currently in a popularity trough and wouldn't garner many votes whatever they did, so we'd just have the usual competition between Labour and Conservative parties who straddle the divide. What would that achieve?

Dave

 

[McHrozni]

Not sure about that. Though I'd like to believe it was feasible, general elections are not and cannot be fought on that narrow a set of issues, because whoever wins also gets to run the government for five years. There are only two parties likely to have a definite stance on Leave/Remain, UKIP and LibDems respectively. UKIP may be too extreme for the majority of Tory Leavers and would be unthinkable for most Labour Leavers, and the LibDems are currently in a popularity trough and wouldn't garner many votes whatever they did, so we'd just have the usual competition between Labour and Conservative parties who straddle the divide. What would that achieve?

Dave

Give the sane option a democratic mandate. It's clear there is no way to pull off Leave in a democratically acceptable way now, because leaving the EU is a series of decisions that will significantly impact the future of the UK. The Brexitards have grossly oversimplified it to meaning only leaving the EU, without giving an explanation before or after the referendum of what they mean by that.

McHrozni

 

[angrysoba]

It's certainly within the rules but it seems to go against the 'take our country back' ethos of the Leave campaign for a Remain supporter to be appointed PM more of less by default following some internal Tory party machinations.

At the very least I think it provides an opportunity for an election and that opportunity might actually give one last chance to stay in the EU if a pro-Remain majority could be assembled.

If May is more concerned for the UK than for herself or her party she might consider taking that opportunity .

May was a Remainer, but I haven't seen any Leavers demanding she not become PM. She has certainly said she will push the button and I think she is being taken at her word.

She may indeed believe that she ought to go through with Brexit on principle.

 

[McHrozni]

May was a Remainer, but I haven't seen any Leavers demanding she not become PM. She has certainly said she will push the button and I think she is being taken at her word.

She may indeed believe that she ought to go through with Brexit on principle.

Or she may be saying whatever it takes in order to get to the position and will change tack quite quickly. She said no Brexit until end of 2016, that buys her plenty of time to do whatever.

I've seen less scrupulous actions from various politicians.

McHrozni

 

[Lothian]

May was a Remainer, but I haven't seen any Leavers demanding she not become PM. She has certainly said she will push the button and I think she is being taken at her word.

She may indeed believe that she ought to go through with Brexit on principle.

I think it is important that she fills her cabinet with remainers. As we have so eloquently had argued on here, the leavers had no responsibility whatsoever to plan or consider how the UK should fit into the world post brexit. That was the responsibility of those in the Government behind remain who are criminally negligent for not having a fully costed and meticulously detailed plan. Seems to me that those remainers need to be held accountable and we shouldn't let them duck their responsibilities on the back benches.

 

[Francesca R]

Leavers? Leavers? Anyone? (Bueller?)

They're out with chicken pox, ma'am.

 

[The Don]

I think it is important that she fills her cabinet with remainers. As we have so eloquently had argued on here, the leavers had no responsibility whatsoever to plan or consider how the UK should fit into the world post brexit. That was the responsibility of those in the Government behind remain who are criminally negligent for not having a fully costed and meticulously detailed plan. Seems to me that those remainers need to be held accountable and we shouldn't let them duck their responsibilities on the back benches.

......and it's also beholden on the Remainers to make sure that whatever solution is reached regarding Brexit is also acceptable to the full spectrum of those who voted leave. Thus, as well as negotiating the terms of Brexit, they also need to achieve consensus within the Leave contingent.

Anything less would be abdicating their responsibilities.

 

[catsmate]

Yes but the legitimacy of that Prime Minister could not be questioned as he was the Prime Minister elected both by the MPs and by his party and the electorate could and did question him at various hustings and debates on the manifesto during the General Election. This time Theresa May and he party are claiming that even though only approx 190 people voted for her that because they were elected on that manifesto and the intention is to carry that manifesto out, there is no need to even consider another election.

What did that manifesto say on post-Brexit plans?

 

[catsmate]

Yeah, Netherlands too, and Belgium ... pretty much the whole Atlantic coast of the EU will seek a piece of the British financial pie. It's hard to see how Theresa May can prevent this by keeping A50 locked up for a few more months.

UK is in a dangerous predicament. If it doesn't negotiate a Norway-style deal, it stands to loose a great deal of economy. If it does, a great majority of electorate (most of those who voted Leave, plus all who voted Remain) will not be happy at all. Furthermore, if it doesn't enter with a clear mandate and intention to negotiate a Norway-style deal it will loose this segment of the economy regardless.
If it does and if it's clear the new government will negotiate a deal like that come hell or high water ... well, let's just say Merkel et.al. have been known to exploit distress in their favor in the past.

On the upside, maybe UK will finally enter Shengen area as a result.

McHrozni

If May doesn't provide an actual plan for A50 within a few days then I'd expect another round of economic rumblings. And if so does, well that could be as bad.

 

[Belz...]

I think it's pretty obvious from the example you are discussing why identity is important.

If the Irish identity was irrelevant once they held British passports then there wouldn't have been any push to change. There was. Because it is not irrelevant.

Then you and I are talking past each other. I don't call that identity, I call that wanting independence.

 

[Belz...]

I'm going to stop dancing altogether, and you can address someone else in that tone, or fall silent. Have a nice day.

So after all that avoidance, and not actually making your point, now that I ask you, with a "please" to boot, to stop doing that and make said point, suddenly you don't like my tone and leave?

I don't believe you for a second.

 

[MikeG]

Shengen! Did someone mention Shengen? That has to be the silliest suggestion on here for a while.

 

[The Don]

Shengen! Did someone mention Shengen? That has to be the silliest suggestion on here for a while.

Could be a ploy. Threatened with Schengen in order to maintain membership of the EEA (or whatever), the UK manages to negotiate this down to "only" unlimited migration.

A major "win" for the negotiating team who demonstrate their steely-eyed determination to work for us

Now where's that tinfoil hat ?

 

[catsmate]

Shengen! Did someone mention Shengen? That has to be the silliest suggestion on here for a while.

Do you mean Schengen by any chance?

 

[angrysoba]

......and it's also beholden on the Remainers to make sure that whatever solution is reached regarding Brexit is also acceptable to the full spectrum of those who voted leave. Thus, as well as negotiating the terms of Brexit, they also need to achieve consensus within the Leave contingent.

Anything less would be abdicating their responsibilities.

Well, it will probably not suit any of the Leavers either so they'll just have to suck lemons like the rest of us. But they can suck them in the knowledge that they ordered them.

 

[angrysoba]

Shengen! Did someone mention Shengen? That has to be the silliest suggestion on here for a while.

I've seen Schengen mentioned once or twice. I might even have mentioned it myself. But just what is so silly?

 

[Lothian]

Shengen! Did someone mention Shengen? That has to be the silliest suggestion on here for a while.

To be fair I think your suggestion that the EU prevented Spanish Banks like Santander operating and providing services to the public outside Spain was sillier.

But to answer your question No, no-one apart from you has mentioned it in this thread for well over a day or 150 posts.

 

[Francesca R]

Do you mean Schengen by any chance?

I often mix it up with that city in Guangdong, China. . . .

 

[gypsyjackson]

Perhaps but if there was a vote in the house now about Theresa May versus others I'm pretty certain she would get it.

I think you're right, but there have been quirks in the past with the non-partisan votes (ha!) such as Bercow's election as Speaker. That went through because Labour MPs voted for him despite him being a Tory, in order to prevent Sir George Young from getting in. Obviously moot, but if a left-wing Tory were to run against May under similar circumstances if they existed...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_of_the_British_House_of_Commons_election,_2009

 

[Hlafordlaes]

... Personally I think that will be unacceptable politically to the Conservative Party and we'll be out-out-out (out of the EU, out of the EEA and the way that May is so anti ECHR out of the council of Europe so we can have the death penalty back - so beloved of the blue rinse brigade) and damn the consequences

Busy this morn and just catching up to the thread. This is the first unread post to give me my first morning afternoon jolt of downers; sure there's more to come.