CCW holder killed reaching for ID.

AdamSK said:
To refresh everyone's memory, here was your post:

You depicted this as a thread where Jones was clearly an innocent victim but everyone was still blaming him. And yet, nobody did so, in that thread or here. Right?
Click to expand...


Then the defenders of the police have gotten to expect much lower bar for violence by police since then. Now they blame someone for getting shot while doing exactly what he was supposed to, they they figured that shouldn't be enough to get shot.
 
AdamSK said:
To refresh everyone's memory, here was your post:

You depicted this as a thread where Jones was clearly an innocent victim but everyone was still blaming him. And yet, nobody did so, in that thread or here. Right?
Click to expand...
Well, there's always one:
Brainster said:
I watched the video, fully expecting the cop to be completely in the wrong. But the guy did go back into the van quickly, which seems to have precipitated the problem.
Click to expand...
 
ponderingturtle said:
Then the defenders of the police have gotten to expect much lower bar for violence by police since then. Now they blame someone for getting shot while doing exactly what he was supposed to, they they figured that shouldn't be enough to get shot.
Click to expand...

Nope, the people blaming the guy in this thread are blaming him for ignoring what the cop said and violating what CCWs are trained to do. Cop said don't move, keep your hands where I can see them. The passenger instead reached for his ID.

That's very different than what happened to Mr. Jones. Your straw men are getting downright dishonest.
 
AdamSK said:
Nope, the people blaming the guy in this thread are blaming him for ignoring what the cop said and violating what CCWs are trained to do.
Click to expand...

OF course this isn't even remotely standard in such training. In many cases the individuals are required to notify the police exactly like what got him killed.

And these same people seem to think guns are not threatening but then jump to explain how a cop would find that terribly threatening.
 
AdamSK said:
Nope, the people blaming the guy in this thread are blaming him for ignoring what the cop said and violating what CCWs are trained to do. Cop said don't move, keep your hands where I can see them. The passenger instead reached for his ID.

That's very different than what happened to Mr. Jones. Your straw men are getting downright dishonest.
Click to expand...

You're 100% confident that is how the exchange occurred? Because I don't see evidence for it.
 
And no cop, being human, would ever remember things differently than they had actually occurred.

I probably missed it, but was there a body cam in this case that just hasn't been released yet?
 
ponderingturtle said:
OF course this isn't even remotely standard in such training. In many cases the individuals are required to notify the police exactly like what got him killed.
Click to expand...

Show me one training manual or guideline for CCW that says "if the cop tells you to keep your hands where he can see them, reach for your ID."
 
AdamSK said:
Show me one training manual or guideline for CCW that says "if the cop tells you to keep your hands where he can see them, reach for your ID."
Click to expand...

Got the video of that? Or is the cop in this case so much more trustworthy than the decorated cop in the other one?

It is easy to see the cop coming up and demanding ID first and the driver then mentioning that he has a CC permit. Obeying the officer and giving them information that they need.

Now this isn't treating the police as the over reacting, excessively violent prone and constantly terrified that you need to do to survive an encounter with them but then neither did the other guy.
 
Yeggster said:
I'm middle aged white and have a short hair cut, I live in Ontario Canada.

When I get pulled over for a bad light or speeding or whatever, I put the window down all the way, I pull over asap, shut off my car, and place my arms on the top of the steering wheel with my hands RIGHT UP by the WINDSHIELD.

When the officer asked for my ID I tell him were it is and ask if it's OK to retrieve it now, and I do so slowly with one hand.

If I can do that here ... everyone can do that everywhere.
Click to expand...

I find it disconcerting that you get pulled over so often that you have a ritual for traffic stops. I'm 44 and I've been pulled over maybe 5-6 times in my life.
 
From the girlfrind: "He let the officer know that he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm," Reynolds said as she broadcast the details of Wednesday's evening shooting on Facebook."

Sounds like he did it backwards. Should have said "I have CCW permit" while keeping his hands still.
 
AdamSK said:
Does that mean you concede that reaching for your ID when the cop says not to move would not be according to CCW training?
Click to expand...

And there is no actual evidence that the cop told him not to move. There is one account that the cop asked for ID. Now sure cops don't have to give possible order like demanding people not move while also demanding they get their ID out.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And
Click to expand...

Does this "And..." imply that you concede the point?

If he moved after being told not to, if he reached for something after being told to keep his hands visible, then he was not acting consistent with CCW training. Yes?
 
lobosrul said:
You're 100% confident that is how the exchange occurred? Because I don't see evidence for it.
Click to expand...

Nope, nowhere near 100% confident. Hopefully the facts become clearer soon.

I would particularly like confirmation about whether Castile actually had a CCW permit, and whether he really did reach in the direction of the gun on his thigh after the police officer told him not to.
 
AdamSK said:
Does this "And..." imply that you concede the point?

If he moved after being told not to, if he reached for something after being told to keep his hands visible, then he was not acting consistent with CCW training. Yes?
Click to expand...
Since you're being hyper-pedantic, are you going to concede that you were actually wrong about this point?
AdamSK said:
To refresh everyone's memory, here was your post:

You depicted this as a thread where Jones was clearly an innocent victim but everyone was still blaming him. And yet, nobody did so, in that thread or here. Right?
Click to expand...
I only ask because you never came back to it after I produced a quote of someone doing just just that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom