Merged Now What?

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MikeG said:
No, not that. Before you accept this received wisdom, consider what status any promise or plan made by a cross party...........cross-party............campaigning group would have had with the government post the referendum. The answer, of course, is that it would have had none at all. I don't know why I have to keep saying this, but why would a Conservative government feel in any way bound by a promise or a plan made by someone opposing the official government position, whether it from their own party or the opposition? Why would Cameron or Osborne (Conservative) have taken the blindest bit of notice of a commitment made by, say, Gisela Stuart (Labour)? Offering such an unfulfillable plan or promise would have become the single biggest piece of dishonesty in the campaign, and, further, would have been akin to Leave handing Remain a huge stick to beat them with.

For people to keep on repeating this crap about lack of a plan, (it's become some sort of mantra for the Remainers), is indicative of nothing other than a lack of thought on the matter.
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Utter crap.

It was beholden on people campaigning for a vote to describe what the vote meant. If they are unable to deliver it later because the government refuse to implement it then that is a political crisis for the government to deal with. Nobody is asking for them to have dictated the details of an exit plan but they should have defined what exit meant at least.

DC is just as culpable as he should have insisted on it for the referendum to be held.

And anybody who disagrees with this can have zero complaint if we end up in the EEA with freedom of movement, following EU law and paying for the privilege.
 
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
And anybody who disagrees with this can have zero complaint if we end up in the EEA with freedom of movement, following EU law and paying for the privilege.
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One could easily argue that leavers can have no complaint if there is an indefinite delay or a technical exit that changes absolutely nothing. (I call that BRINO)

Of course many would complain, except the Bregretters. But it is a decent point that if they can be presumed not to be for anything what care of theirs should it be what turns out.
 
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CapelDodger said:
Johnson didn't step down, he was cut off at the knees. Lets not forget one of the few bright spots in this whole sorry affair.
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There's been a run-on popcorn. I personally made a whopping forty pounds which is only four fifths of what it once was, and I have actually set the ball rolling in getting some Irish documents. It doesn't add up to much, but you have to look on the bright side.

As others have said, what is Have I Got News For You doing having a break now? Brexit, Chilcot, leadership elections. There is endless top quality entertainment to be had from this.
 
angrysoba said:
I personally made a whopping forty pounds which is only four fifths of what it once was
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The one in your pocket is still worth about the same. As lomg as you don't want to spend it overseas. I prefer to think of it as my fairly large dollar position making 22%.
 
Francesca R said:
One could easily argue that leavers can have no complaint if there is an indefinite delay or a technical exit that changes absolutely nothing. (I call that BRINO)

Of course many would complain, except the Bregretters. But it is a decent point that if they can be presumed not to be for anything what care of theirs should it be what turns out.
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A pig in a poke indeed.

But apparently for some that's not only OK but actually the right thing to do. :rolleyes:
 
Argumemnon said:
Sorry to focus on this, but are you European or not? I don't "identify" as Canadian; it's not for me to decide, as I was born there and have citizenship. I don't identify as European because it would contradict reality.
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Let's see...

Craig B said:
No, reality is more complex than that. A Scottish or English or Welsh person has at least three "Canadas" to choose from, with which he or she may "identify". The individual country, e.g. England; the United Kingdom, or the European Union. In a very strong and relevant sense, it is for the individual to decide in such cases. The level at which one possesses a passport is not necessarily the level at which one identifies.
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I disagree with your line of reasoning but to answer your question, Yes (assuming he is a citizen of an EU country). All citizens of EU countries are considered EU citizens and conferred rights by the EU as a result. We carry EU passports. We are Europeans.
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They are right about the above. Unfortunately, I am not a citizen of an EU country. This corresponds, however, exclusively to the fact that I cannot stomach swearing allegiance to a monarch, or I'd've gone local decades ago. Too bad I didn't stay in France back in the day, as there I wouldn't have this issue. (I would face it in the UK or, say, Canada, though.) Given all that, I consider myself settled and a European, having lived here since the late 1970s (with a couple of 2-3 year stints elsewhere).

***
Yeah I wonder if devolved governments and confederations aren't preferable in the long term. What's preventing war in the modern era is the increased role of diplomacy following WWII and the presence of nukes, not, I believe, larger states.
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As a preventative from outside attack, perhaps, perhaps not. Let's remember it was all the small guys clobbering each other last century. So, wrt security, the reasoning in my case is (1) union lessens hyper competition in nationalist terms and (2) the larger market strengthens companies and makes the entire region stronger in general terms, and (3) union may lead to better integrated defense and security systems.
 
Francesca R said:
I refer to Johnson and Farage. Not that they're not free to do so.
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So Johnson, who was ambushed, and Farage, who could have no foreseeable role whatever in the post-Brexit negotiations etc.
In other words "several of them, that's why they (who won the referendum) have stepped down, their work is done" amounts to exactly one who could have had any ongoing role. I see. I trust you'll accept that "several" was thus an exaggeration?
 
MikeG said:
Farage, who could have no foreseeable role whatever in the post-Brexit negotiations etc.
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What? You must be joking. I think it's a safe bet that the UK would never have voted to leave the EU were it not for Farage. "Role in the exit process" does not mean at the bargaining table.

The Gove-Johnson vapourisation act seems to have been a one-two self-immolation.
 
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Craig B said:
No, reality is more complex than that. A Scottish or English or Welsh person has at least three "Canadas" to choose from, with which he or she may "identify". The individual country, e.g. England; the United Kingdom, or the European Union. In a very strong and relevant sense, it is for the individual to decide in such cases. The level at which one possesses a passport is not necessarily the level at which one identifies.

That can be very significant. In the late 1980s various peoples; e.g. Lithuanians, Ukrainians; decided no longer to identify themselves as "Soviet". The result was that a huge empire quietly but promptly fell to pieces.
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Indeed.
I'm European, British, English, a Yorkshire man,, a Hully, and emporer of my shoes. Some of us are spoilt for choice.

regards
A fellow Earthling
 
I'm Kiwi by birth, British as well by passport (pesky immigrant) and Italian by wishful thinking and a little heritage.

I don't usually support British teams or athletes. Except Andy Murray maybe.
 
angrysoba said:
There's been a run-on popcorn. I personally made a whopping forty pounds which is only four fifths of what it once was, and I have actually set the ball rolling in getting some Irish documents. It doesn't add up to much, but you have to look on the bright side.

As others have said, what is Have I Got News For You doing having a break now? Brexit, Chilcot, leadership elections. There is endless top quality entertainment to be had from this.
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Dead Ringers was quite funny today!
 
The panic is over, Leadsom has taken control of the EU

Search this heading>. Andrea Leadsom: EU single market ‘is no longer a relevant term’

An interesting geography lesson on the independent message board.
 
Spanx said:
The panic is over, Leadsom has taken control of the EU

Search this heading>. Andrea Leadsom: EU single market ‘is no longer a relevant term’

An interesting geography lesson on the independent message board.
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Looks like the #2 in the Tory leadership election is moderately nuts. Thank the FSM she's only junior energy minister.

Bring back William Hague, or someone. Anyone. Ken Clarke?
 
GlennB said:
Looks like the #2 in the Tory leadership election is moderately nuts.
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Like Tony Blair, she's a devout God-botherer, so it follows that she is at least moderately nuts - and I would say more than moderately.

Unlike Blair, she doesn't even have the good sense to keep quiet about it - which also means she suffers from poor judgement.
 
GlennB said:
.......Bring back William Hague, or someone. Anyone. Ken Clarke?
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I'd love to think there was a way back for Hague. He got the leadership much too young, and would have been great in the job now. I thought him a really excellent Foreign Secretary.
 
SusanB-M1 said:
Dead Ringers was quite funny today!
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I was trying to lift a big, big piece of oak into place at lunchtime with Dead Ringers on in the background. I dropped it twice through laughing. I had to turn the radio off to make sure I didn't hurt myself. :D
 
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