Merged Now What?

[Hlafordlaes]

I hope you accept that this is one of the things which might have been in the back of the mind of many who voted leave. You vision would be an anathema to many here.

That I never saw in the Brexit movement at all, quite the contrary: a full on rejection of the EU. I have heard "Europe of the Regions" argued often among those wishing for more autonomy within the current or future EU, but never from the Brexiters.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

That I never saw in the Brexit movement at all, quite the contrary: a full on rejection of the EU. I have heard "Europe of the Regions" argued often among those wishing for more autonomy within the current or future EU, but never from the Brexiters.

I think you are misinterpreting what Mike said. He meant that Brexiters lived in terror of being subsumed into a federal Europe, regardless of whether there was regional autonomy.

 

[Spanx]

So would I be right in assuming that brexit is the same as being suspended from this forum.

I will be able to see what's going on but won't be able to post. When the suspension is lifted, I still have to abide by the posting rules but won't be able to post.

I guess the question is, will the mods let me negotiate before I get myself suspended ?

It all sounds a bit pointless to me.

 

[CapelDodger]

So would I be right in assuming that brexit is the same as being suspended from this forum.

I will be able to see what's going on but won't be able to post. When the suspension is lifted, I still have to abide by the posting rules but won't be able to post.

I guess the question is, will the mods let me negotiate before I get myself suspended ?

It all sounds a bit pointless to me.

When all's done and dusted that will, I think, be history's judgement, whether or not we actually leave. An act of collective insanity.

 

[MCel58]

The interesting thing is we don't have UK law as such we have 3 legal systems in Great Britain and Northern Ireland and solicitors and Barristers are licensed under each system separately. The 3 legal systems are English law, which applies in England and Wales, and Northern Ireland law, which applies in Northern Ireland. These two are based on common-law principles. Scots law, which applies in Scotland, is a pluralistic system based on civil-law principles, with common law elements dating back to the High Middle Ages. So there is no such thing as UK law which makes Brexit even more challenging but not impossible.
‎

 

[P.J. Denyer]

@Hlafordlaes :
No leadership is going to drive off the cliff just because the GPS tells them to.

So you say, but in my head I hear an Oxbridge voice saying "I say, this car's accelerating awfully fast, but aren't those rock johnnies getting rather close?"

 

[Hlafordlaes]

I think you are misinterpreting what Mike said. He meant that Brexiters lived in terror of being subsumed into a federal Europe, regardless of whether there was regional autonomy.

Now that you mention it, I was rather surprised. Misread.

So much for the worse, too. Going back to same old in all of Europe, which this advocates in principle, is even less a solution. Even imagining the wildest outcome for stellar new trading all over the globe, the UK will have a weaker Europe that, seen from the parochial perspective of Brexit, is now more of a potential threat. And so we may spiral down, mutually needing less of each other while losing trust, regardless.

To that I say: How very 20th century of you.

 

[jsfisher]

A dozen or so recent post have wandered into territory shunned by the Membership Agreement. They have been dispatched to a holding area of the Forum to shrivel and die, where all hope is abandoned.

And while tone and passion of the Membership Agreement infringing posts, now banished, did not even begin to approach the magnitude too often observed in the USA Politics area, I would greatly appreciate if folks stick to the topic and not stick it to each other.

Rules 0, 11, and 12 are everyone's friends. Please post responsibly.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jsfisher

 

[Francesca R]

For the moment.

You are incorrect. Osborne is not going to raise tax and cut spending to fill an emergency £30bn black hole. It was a lie.

That you deny this removes much credibility from your position. Are you in the habit of backing Tory cabinet ministers no matter what they say and then do? It is funny.

 

[MCel58]

You are incorrect. Osborne is not going to raise tax and cut spending to fill an emergency £30bn black hole. It was a lie.

That you deny this removes much credibility from your position. Are you in the habit of backing Tory cabinet ministers no matter what they say and then do? It is funny.

I agree but I do wonder how we are going to pay for all the unforeseen costs that the vote will now incurr. We are about to undertake the largest restructuring of a country's statutes that has ever been undertaken and we have no idea of the real costs involved.

In addition, there appears to be an assumption that a company moving its trade from the EU to somewhere else also has no costs in terms of market research, logistics, Intellectual Property Rights, set up costs, legal compliance costs etc

This will particularly impact on the 90% of UK companies who are small and medium sized if we do not retain our connection to the common market, even if there are no trade tariffs with new countries there will be costs.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

You are incorrect. Osborne is not going to raise tax and cut spending to fill an emergency £30bn black hole. It was a lie.

That you deny this removes much credibility from your position. Are you in the habit of backing Tory cabinet ministers no matter what they say and then do? It is funny.

Id wait until we get a budget before branding it a lie to be honest.

I do wonder though if Osbourne was willing to borrow to bail out his brexit chums from the consequences of their actions why he didn't think to spend some of this money on the country BEFORE they decided to vote for economic suicide.

He could have given the NHS £350m/week and we'd be better off now.

 

[Francesca R]

Id wait until we get a budget before branding it a lie to be honest.

I would hazard a guess you are not so willing to wait and see if more money gets spent on the NHS before branding that a lie. Give it time, at some point in the future the NHS budget is quite likely to be a hundred million or so a week higher isn't it?

Maybe you shouldn't brand that as a lie.

 

[Lothian]

You are incorrect. Osborne is not going to raise tax and cut spending to fill an emergency £30bn black hole. It was a lie.
.

The emergency appears to be wrong and I am not sure about £30bn but the next budget could well involve tax rises.

This part of the cycle is traditionally where the Chancellor comes round looking for ideas that will save and raise money to boost the coffers so there can be a giveaway later in the term just before the next election.

However if the Brexit blues are still around it could be a real game changer

 

[Francesca R]

The emergency appears to be wrong and I am not sure about £30bn but the next budget could well involve tax rises.

So far it seems likely to contain a 5% cut in business tax. I suppose Osborne could cut it by 4% and then blah that he has had to "raise tax" relative to a "baseline forecast" yeah.

 

[Spanx]

Now we know the value of the pound has dropped and imports such as food have gone (will be) going up. Now is not the best time to raise tax. IMO

 

[Lothian]

So far it seems likely to contain a 5% cut in business tax. I suppose Osborne could cut it by 4% and then blah that he has had to "raise tax" relative to a "baseline forecast" yeah.

No, I think we will see 5% as a minimum off CT. I think that is only going one way and it is down. I suspect the UK will be made into an even more friendly place to do business. Certainly after a deal with the EU is agreed we will get very aggressive. Before we would not want to annoy them too much.

However I expect it will be far less welcoming for individuals particularly those who are unable to afford the services of people who specialise in devising tax efficient renumeration packages.

 

[Craig B]

As mentioned above, Melton Mowbray pork pies and Stilton are certainly worthy of their inclusion in the list of protected foods.

I would agree. English cheeses and meat products at their best are excellent by world standards.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I would hazard a guess you are not so willing to wait and see if more money gets spent on the NHS before branding that a lie. Give it time, at some point in the future the NHS budget is quite likely to be a hundred million or so a week higher isn't it?

Maybe you shouldn't brand that as a lie.

The lie was that £350m/week would be spent on the NHS. The 'lie' was:

1. The number was wrong
2. The saving was promised to about 10 different things
3. The money wasn't real because leaving the EU would leave us with less not more money by all reasonable forecasts.

There's no reality in which the venn diagram of that pledge and truth overlap. No matter how long you wait.

To give another example. Claiming that we can keep access to the free market is not a lie. Even if it doesn't happen. Claiming that we can limit immigration is not a lie. Even if it doesn't happen.

Claiming we can do both. A lie.

Just because something doesn't happen doesn't necessarily mean its a lie.

 

[Lothian]

To give another example. Claiming that we can keep access to the free market is not a lie. Even if it doesn't happen. Claiming that we can limit immigration is not a lie. Even if it doesn't happen.

Claiming we can do both. A lie.

I am fairly sure that if we tripled our EU contribution we would be able to keep access to the free market and limit EU immigration. That something is highly improbable does not make it a lie.

I think a lot of what the Leave side did was to paint an incredibly optimistic picture of the future. They then successfully convinced the public that people taking a more sensible view were unpatriotic fear-mongers.
The crime was not lying it was hiding the fact that that the possibilities they outlined were highly improbable, until the day after the election.

 

[Belz...]

In my opinion, there is a next step required to lessen the level of conflict, and that is the recognition that shared values are enough for people who look, pray, eat and sing differently to recognize that equality is a truly universal value, not a tribal one.

Equality, maybe at some point. But do they all want to live in the same house?