New Disclosures on Benghazi - Part II

[tyr_13]

Clueless... table for...

So the coverup was of...

I know know the accusation is that Hilary has covered up her 'negligence' but that hasn't been shown, as the investigation actually concluded. No crime to cover up, remember. What misconduct was covered up? What mistake was covered up? I'm sure 16.5 and sunmaster14 will have a list wall of text, each and every point a red herring.

The cover up of 'Hilary BAAAAddd person, mean lady.' HDS.

 

[Foolmewunz]

"Chaffetz: So the military is told to stand down, not engage in the fight. These are the kind of people willing to engage. Where did that message come down, where did the stand-down order come from?

Hicks. I believe it came from either AFRICOM or SOCAFRICA.

[...]

Turner: Mr. Hicks, I'm a member of the House Armed Services Committee, and I'm very fascinated with the stand-down order to Colonel Gibson. As we pursue that, we want to know who gave Colonel Gibson the order and why. And so we want -- I would like to review that stand-down order with you and what your experienced that night since you were with him as he was receiving that stand-down order.

[...]

Turner: Now, do you know why they were told to stand down? Did Colonel Gibson give you any information or understanding?

Hicks: I actually don’t know why.

[...]

DeSantis: Even though you believed help was needed, there was a SOF unit, special operations units ordered to stand down, correct?

Hicks: Yes.

[...]


DeSantis.: So when the order to stand down was given, who issued that order? Were you told? Did Lieutenant Colonel Gibson tell you who was ultimately responsible for issuing that order?

Hicks: He did not identify the person.

[...]

DeSantis: And have you, since this incident has happened and you have been interviewed, have you been enlightened as to who was ultimately responsible for issuing the stand down order?

Hicks: I think that the right person to pose that question to is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson."

...

"REP. ROBY: At the May 8 hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Gregory Hicks, who was the Deputy Chief of Missions at the Embassy in Tripoli that you have referred to, on the day of Benghazi attacks, he was asked by a Member, and I quote, "You believed help was needed in Benghazi, and there was a SOF unit, Special Operations unit, ordered to stand down, correct?" And Mr. Hicks replies "yes" to this question.

Do you agree that you and your team were ordered to, quote, 'stand down'?

GIBSON: Madam Chairman, I was not ordered to stand down."

[hds mode] See it. See it. He never said there was a "stand down order". He merely confirmed, assented, agreed several times that they were talking about a stand-down order, when asked.[/hds off]

Does anyone recall the other infamous "stand down" claims made in the past decade? Hint: It involved Darth Cheney.

Gowdy did his job. He has nothing. He issued a report showing nothing. He left enough paranoid wiggle room in there that the partisans can still rehash their old failed arguments, amounting to "She did it. I hate her. She was responsible. Had to be 'cuz I hate here so much."

The real crime here is that what should have been an actual investigation got sidetracked by '16 electioneering. Why wasn't there better security? Why/who thought we needed to be in Benghazi in the first place. What role did the defunding of embassy security have in the affair. There are fingers to be pointed in a lot of directions but when it failed to gain traction to derail Obama's re-election, rather than pursue Defense, Congress, the Pentagon... the witch hunters wasted four years and millions of dollars trying to stick it to Hillary.

 

[acbytesla]

'It ain't the crime, it's the coverup', and yet they haven't even shown a coverup or what was supposed to be covered up...

This was a waste of government money for partizan activities.

You know the Republicans mock Hillary when she talked about a right wing conspiracy that was out to get her and Bill like she's a crazy lady just being paranoid. Yet over the years, they have gone after the Clintons for "Travelgate", Whitewater, suggested they had Vince Foster killed as well as other people for various political reasons. Story after story after story about Clinton corruption. Now here we are 25 years later and they haven't proven a thing other than Bill is a bit of a horndog. Something most of us knew in1991.

It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

 

[Tony Stark]

You know the Republicans mock Hillary when she talked about a right wing conspiracy that was out to get her and Bill like she's a crazy lady just being paranoid. Yet over the years, they have gone after the Clintons for "Travelgate", Whitewater, suggested they had Vince Foster killed as well as other people for various political reasons. Story after story after story about Clinton corruption. Now here we are 25 years later and they haven't proven a thing other than Bill is a bit of a horndog. Something most of us knew in1991.

It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Yep, the Republican scum really have been trying as hard as they can to destroy the Clintons for decades. And to make it all the more pathetic, they failed. Bill was a popular two term President and Hillary will be elected President in a few months.

Suck it, Republicans.

 

[The Big Dog]

Hicks is lying through his teeth, period. And he is using the graves of the dead, literally, to make a partisan point he knows is false. I'd say that makes him a pretty disgusting individual and a disgrace to his uniform.

his uniform? you certainly seem up on your facts...

Hicks stated that the SF were ordered not to get on the plane and they didn't get on the plane.

These facts are absolutely undisputed. It appears that partisan pedants do not refer to being ordered not to go as "standing down."

What uniform was he wearing?

 

[NoahFence]

I'm laughing at the flailing.

Hillary isn't responsible. Get over it.

 

[sunmaster14]

You know the Republicans mock Hillary when she talked about a right wing conspiracy that was out to get her and Bill like she's a crazy lady just being paranoid. Yet over the years, they have gone after the Clintons for "Travelgate", Whitewater, suggested they had Vince Foster killed as well as other people for various political reasons. Story after story after story about Clinton corruption. Now here we are 25 years later and they haven't proven a thing other than Bill is a bit of a horndog. Something most of us knew in1991.

It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Do you remember that Hillary made her claim about the vast right wing conspiracy in relation to the Monica Lewinsky scandal? And that everything that Bill Clinton was accused of in that scandal turned out to be true? Apparently not, or else you wouldn't have mocked Republicans for mocking Hillary's claims.

Also, there is a big difference between showing something is likely true and proving it is true beyond a reasonable doubt. Basically, you are conflating the two and concluding that just because Hillary or Bill haven't been convicted of any crimes (although Bill actually did admit to perjury and accepted disbarment), that therefore the accusations against them are false. Actually, most of the mainstream accusations against them are quite likely to be true. Hillary very likely obstructed justice and committed perjury in Travelgate. I would stake my life on it that she knowingly accepted bribes in the form of cattle futures trading profits in the late 1970s. She and Bill very likely did illegal things in the Whitewater scandal (and committed perjury), and were only saved by Susan McDougall's willingness to go to jail rather than cooperate with the investigation. Do you remember that Hillary's billing records from the Rose Law Firm were subpoenaed, and nobody could find them? And then two days after the statute of limitations ran out, they magically appeared in a closet in the White House? I mean you'd practically have to be a conspiracy theorist nut to believe that there was an innocent explanation for that.

I think it is quite instructive to consider the counterfactual scenario where Bill hadn't shot his load all over Monica's blue dress, or, equivalently, that she had actually laundered her dress rather than save his Presidential semen stain as some sort of trophy. To this day, Clinton defenders would be insisting that all of the Lewinsky allegations were nothing more than despicable smears cooked up by a vast, right wing conspiracy.

 

[sunmaster14]

I'm laughing at the flailing.

Hillary isn't responsible. Get over it.

Hillary accepted "full responsibility." Do you think she's lying?

 

[A'isha]

Hicks stated that the SF were ordered not to get on the plane and they didn't get on the plane.

He said they were given a stand-down order. They weren't. Hicks lied.

It appears that partisan pedants do not refer to being ordered not to go as "standing down."

Special Forces Lieutenant Colonel S.E. Gibson, the commander of the 4-man team that Hicks lied about being given a stand-down order, is a partisan pedant?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Clinton has said that she accepts "full responsibility" for the *************** that was Benghazi. What does that mean though? Does accepting responsibility for something mean anything more than just saying the words? Are the words magic? Was anybody punished, demoted, forced out, fined, or prosecuted for what was - and this is undisputed - gross negligence?

Hillary accepted "full responsibility." Do you think she's lying?

IDK, What does that mean though?

 

[The Big Dog]

He said they were given a stand-down order. They weren't. Hicks lied.



Special Forces Lieutenant Colonel S.E. Gibson, the commander of the 4-man team that Hicks lied about being given a stand-down order, is a partisan pedant?

Yup! Brcause only the most ridiculous pedants would claim that hicks testimony that sf was ordered not to go was a lie

Hicks said they were ordered not go, true?
Gibson: yup, we were ordered not to go. But we don't "label" that stand down

Facts don't matter. Obscure military jargon does!

 

[wareyin]

Yup! Brcause only the most ridiculous pedants would claim that hicks testimony that sf was ordered not to go was a lie

Hicks said they were ordered not go, true?
Gibson: yup, we were ordered not to go. But we don't "label" that stand down

Facts don't matter. Obscure military jargon does!

Are you attempting to imply that 'stay and protect the assets here' is the same as 'you're ordered not to help them'?

 

[marplots]

Hillary accepted "full responsibility." Do you think she's lying?

Yes.

Uh oh, I've been trapped by clever rhetoric. Well done.

 

[Tony Stark]

What are the odds that we get a ninth BENGHAZI!!11!! investigation? Assuming of course that the Trump disaster doesn't cost the Republicans the Senate and the House. Or maybe the Republicans will just create a general let's spend millions of dollars trying to find dirt on Hillary so we can impeach her committee?

 

[marplots]

Or maybe the Republicans will just create a general find dirt on Hillary committee?

They already have one of those. It's called the RNC.

 

[Crossbow]

What are the odds that we get a ninth BENGHAZI!!11!! investigation? Assuming of course that the Trump disaster doesn't cost the Republicans the Senate and the House. Or maybe the Republicans will just create a general let's spend millions of dollars trying to find dirt on Hillary so we can impeach her committee?

When Donald Trump gets to be the President, then he will build a wall around Benghazi and make Hillary Clinton pay for it.

 

[A'isha]

Yup! Brcause only the most ridiculous pedants would claim that hicks testimony that sf was ordered not to go was a lie

His testimony was not that they were merely ordered not to go, but that they were ordered to stand down. And that was a lie.

Hicks said they were ordered not go, true?
Gibson: yup, we were ordered not to go. But we don't "label" that stand down

"REP. ROBY: At the May 8 hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Gregory Hicks, who was the Deputy Chief of Missions at the Embassy in Tripoli that you have referred to, on the day of Benghazi attacks, he was asked by a Member, and I quote, "You believed help was needed in Benghazi, and there was a SOF unit, Special Operations unit, ordered to stand down, correct?" And Mr. Hicks replies "yes" to this question.

Do you agree that you and your team were ordered to, quote, 'stand down'?

GIBSON: Madam Chairman, I was not ordered to stand down."

Facts don't matter.

Not to you, obviously. Hicks lied. Repeatedly. To Congress. But since his false testimony can be used in your anti-Clinton crusade, you're totally fine with that and will defend his lies at all costs.

Obscure military jargon does!

Obscure?

 

[The Big Dog]

His testimony was not that they were merely ordered not to go, but that they were ordered to stand down. And that was a lie.



"REP. ROBY: At the May 8 hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Gregory Hicks, who was the Deputy Chief of Missions at the Embassy in Tripoli that you have referred to, on the day of Benghazi attacks, he was asked by a Member, and I quote, "You believed help was needed in Benghazi, and there was a SOF unit, Special Operations unit, ordered to stand down, correct?" And Mr. Hicks replies "yes" to this question.

Do you agree that you and your team were ordered to, quote, 'stand down'?

GIBSON: Madam Chairman, I was not ordered to stand down."



Not to you, obviously. Hicks lied. Repeatedly. To Congress. But since his false testimony can be used in your anti-Clinton crusade, you're totally fine with that and will defend his lies at all costs.



Obscure?

Greg Hicks said you were ordered not to go: TRUE
Greg said you were ordered not to get on the plane: True.

But that is not "standing down" because reasons.

'k.

At the end of the day, the SF were "standing" around the airport in Tripoli.

 

[A'isha]

Greg Hicks said you were ordered not to go: TRUE
Greg said you were ordered not to get on the plane: True.

But that is not "standing down" because reasons.

Hicks' Republican questioners were not devoting all that time and effort and emotion questioning Hicks about Gibson's unit merely being assigned by to provide security for the Tripoli embassy due to the possibility of follow-on attacks in Tripoli or a potential for attempts at hostage taking and to provide medical and security assistance to the Americans returning from Benghazi instead of going to Benghazi themselves because Rear Admiral Losey wanted to divide the few military personnel that were available in Libya between Tripoli and Benghazi rather than concentrate them all in one location.

They had, in the words of the Committee on Armed Services Majority Interim Report "conclude[d] erroneously that inaction rather than an alternative warfighting posture was ordered for Lieutenant Colonel Gibson’s four men", because as Gibson himself pointed out "'Stand down' implies that we cease all operations, cease all activities", and was Hicks who led them to that false conclusion and confirmed it for them with his lies about a "stand down" order.

 

[The Big Dog]

Hicks' Republican questioners were not devoting all that time and effort and emotion questioning Hicks about Gibson's unit merely being assigned by to provide security for the Tripoli embassy due to the possibility of follow-on attacks in Tripoli or a potential for attempts at hostage taking and to provide medical and security assistance to the Americans returning from Benghazi instead of going to Benghazi themselves because Rear Admiral Losey wanted to divide the few military personnel that were available in Libya between Tripoli and Benghazi rather than concentrate them all in one location.

They had, in the words of the Committee on Armed Services Majority Interim Report "conclude[d] erroneously that inaction rather than an alternative warfighting posture was ordered for Lieutenant Colonel Gibson’s four men", because as Gibson himself pointed out "'Stand down' implies that we cease all operations, cease all activities", and was Hicks who led them to that false conclusion and confirmed it for them with his lies about a "stand down" order.

Wrong again! fantastic. To summarize, you don't... no one at all quibbles with the substance of Hicks' testimony that the SF were ordered not to get on the plane.

Not even you.

And it wasn't Hicks that lead them to that conclusion, it was Gibson who told Hicks he was furious that they were not permitted to go although he said in "hindsight" being ordered not to go was the "correct" decision (after he got promoted of course.... of course)