Corbyn's days (very) numbered?

[ceptimus]

Labour MPs have been plotting to get rid of Corbyn ever since he was elected leader.

They said he would lose by elections, that he would lose the local elections, that he would lose the Mayor of London race. If any of those things had happened they would have staged their coup then. In each case they were largely or completely wrong - Labour has been doing fairly well under Corbyn's leadership.

Up to now the MPs haven't had the balls to mount a direct challenge to him in the way the democratic rules of the party allow because they knew they had no chance of defeating him in an honourable fight - instead they have engaged in slimy attempts to undermine him. They are dragging the party down - they should be ashamed of themselves, not their elected leader.

 

[catsmate]

Does it increase her pension? In Australia parliamentary pensions are based in part on the highest level you achieve, although you have to serve more than a few days....

No. Only the Leader of the Opposition, and the Whips draw an additional salary/pension.

 

[catsmate]

Labour MPs have been plotting to get rid of Corbyn ever since he was elected leader.

They said he would lose by elections, that he would lose the local elections, that he would lose the Mayor of London race. If any of those things had happened they would have staged their coup then. In each case they were largely or completely wrong - Labour has been doing fairly well under Corbyn's leadership.

Up to now the MPs haven't had the balls to mount a direct challenge to him in the way the democratic rules of the party allow because they knew they had no chance of defeating him in an honourable fight - instead they have engaged in slimy attempts to undermine him. They are dragging the party down - they should be ashamed of themselves, not their elected leader.

Any evidence for this little conspiracy theory?

 

[Francesca R]

No, I don't think so. I don't think there's been a viable left wing option for some time.

Fair enough. I think though that the issue is your views being quite far from representative or mainstream or typical or whatever.

 

[3point14]

Fair enough. I think though that the issue is your views being quite far from representative or mainstream or typical or whatever.

I don't know that they are anymore. In the late 70s and early 80s, yes, without a doubt, there was no appetite for any movement at all to the left.

I think, however, since then, there's quite a left wing undercurrent in the country and the prevailing message - that one cannot win an election or even influence parliament with a moderate, left wing manifesto and an increase in taxation - is, at this point, a self fulfilling prophesy. I think a united Labour Party (yeah, I also want a unicorn, please) running on a platform of increased taxation and increased public services would find itself, not necessarily in power, but with enough seats to form an effective opposition.

I also think that, just as happened to Obama in the US, any discussion of wealth inequality will be framed by the media (mainly owned by the very rich) as 'wealth redistribution' which makes life difficult.

 

[ceptimus]

Any evidence for this little conspiracy theory?

Well, most of what I stated is a matter of public record. I admit that my assertion that a planned coup would definitely have been enacted after a lost by-election or lost local elections or a lost London Mayoral election is speculation on my part which I stand by. The fact that Labour grandees wrongly predicted all those things and that they would all be Corbyn's fault is recorded in the newspapers.

 

[ceptimus]

During the reigns of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, prospective Labour MPs could only be selected from a list approved by the Blairites - and most of today's Labour MPs were, of course, elected during those years. This explains why so many of them are so far to the political right of the party's activists and the party's historical position.

 

[Francesca R]

why so many of them are so far to the political right of the party's activists and the party's historical position.

I tend to think activists and historical positions should go and whistle. Activists are a special interest. Historical positions don't have a vote.

It's me and the other 45 odd million voters Labour should appeal to.

 

[3point14]

I tend to think activists and historical positions should go and whistle. Activists are a special interest. Historical positions don't have a vote.

It's me and the other 45 odd million voters Labour should appeal to.

I don't think trying to appeal to everyone is a recipe for success.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Angela Eagle?

 

[Francesca R]

I don't think trying to appeal to everyone is a recipe for success.

Well ignoring almost everyone doesn't seem to be either.

Something in between.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Fair enough. I think though that the issue is your views being quite far from representative or mainstream or typical or whatever.

Two things I would say:

1. I don't think I necessarily agree that Labour has crept left since Blair to increasing unpopularity. I don't think the move has been left so much as directionless. Towards increasing levels of irrelevance and a diluted beige platform of nothingness.

2. The SNP in Scotland have shown that there is a demand for a left of centre party that has got its **** together at least in parts of the UK and I really don't think that Liverpool, Newcastle or Manchester are all that different to Glasgow and Dundee. If you rolled out the SNP policies to England and offered them with some credible politicians I think they'd be a good opposition to the Tories. Even without the uniting banner of Independence.

How many people have you heard following national debates in England say they wish they could vote SNP? Don't you think Nicola could make a credible UK Labour leader and her policies generally wouldn't seem out of place?

I don't think its so much whether they are left or right of centre as whether they seem credible, passionate and up for the fight. Anyone in Labour you could say that about right now?

And they need to stop worrying about winning the next election and start worrying about how they ever win another election. Better to establish some firm foundations and work towards a possible victory in 2025 than keep chasing their tails in perpetuity.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Angela Eagle?

Is that an answer or a question?

If it's an answer I don't know what the question is.

If it's a question the answer is definitely 'No, thanks'

 

[Darat]

Let's set aside for a moment whether Blair was centre left or hard hard right. After Blair, Labour moved a bit to the left (of where it was) under Brown. It lost to a coalition. After Brown it moved a bit more left under Miliband. It lost to a Tory majority. After Miliband it moved more left under Corbyn. It's struggling even more.
Perhaps time to let go of the idea that it just needs to be a "proper left party"

But in an actual election Labour is doing better than it did under Milliband:

Tooting June 16

Labour 17,894 55.9 +8.7
Conservative 11,537 36.1 -5.8
Green 830 2.6 -1.5
LibDem 820 2.6 -1.4
UKIP 507 1.6 -1.3

And I think there was a by-election in May(?) in which they also saw an upswing in their percentage? ETA: By-election in Sheffield up by 6%.

 

[Francesca R]

How many people have you heard following national debates in England say they wish they could vote SNP? Don't you think Nicola could make a credible UK Labour leader and her policies generally wouldn't seem out of place?

Probably yes. I rather badly wish her politics were more aligned with mine on more issues and she led a UK wide party.

Although that is wishing for rather a lot that's not the case.

But I think the point is that her leadership competence makes a massive difference to whether voters support her policies. That is not supposed to be anything but a positive comment.

 

[jimbob]

I tend to think activists and historical positions should go and whistle. Activists are a special interest. Historical positions don't have a vote.

It's me and the other 45 odd million voters Labour should appeal to.

Indeed

Two things I would say:

1. I don't think I necessarily agree that Labour has crept left since Blair to increasing unpopularity. I don't think the move has been left so much as directionless. Towards increasing levels of irrelevance and a diluted beige platform of nothingness.

2. The SNP in Scotland have shown that there is a demand for a left of centre party that has got its **** together at least in parts of the UK and I really don't think that Liverpool, Newcastle or Manchester are all that different to Glasgow and Dundee. If you rolled out the SNP policies to England and offered them with some credible politicians I think they'd be a good opposition to the Tories. Even without the uniting banner of Independence.

How many people have you heard following national debates in England say they wish they could vote SNP? Don't you think Nicola could make a credible UK Labour leader and her policies generally wouldn't seem out of place?

I don't think its so much whether they are left or right of centre as whether they seem credible, passionate and up for the fight. Anyone in Labour you could say that about right now?

And they need to stop worrying about winning the next election and start worrying about how they ever win another election. Better to establish some firm foundations and work towards a possible victory in 2025 than keep chasing their tails in perpetuity.

They need to start by attempting relevance and holding the government to account. It should have been easy, the Tories have been divided, and with a smaller majority than Major had in 1992. Instead Labour have been useless - as though Cameron had had a Thatcher in 1987 level landslide victory.

But in an actual election Labour is doing better than it did under Milliband:

Tooting June 16

Labour 17,894 55.9 +8.7
Conservative 11,537 36.1 -5.8
Green 830 2.6 -1.5
LibDem 820 2.6 -1.4
UKIP 507 1.6 -1.3

And I think there was a by-election in May(?) in which they also saw an upswing in their percentage? ETA: By-election in Sheffield up by 6%.

By elections tend to favour protest votes. It would have been shocking if they hadn't improved.

 

[Francesca R]

And I think there was a by-election in May(?) in which they also saw an upswing in their percentage? ETA: By-election in Sheffield up by 6%.

Are you comparing by elections with general? Or by with by? Don't mean to nitpick, just by curious.

 

[MikeG]

Angela Eagle?

If she is the answer, I am not sure what the question is. If that's the best Labour can come up with, and Corbyn gets his name on the ballot paper, then that will be the end of the Labour party.

 

[MikeG]

Chris Bryant (former Labour front bencher) has suggested that Corbyn may have voted Leave.. This could be fun.

He also said this:

if he (Corbyn) were to lead us into a general election, the latest poll shows we would lose 150 seats, we would be a rump of 75 Members of Parliament."

 

[jimbob]

Jeez, even I could give Corbyn a touch up.

He's the biggest lame duck leader since the invention of lame ducks. Losing a replacement shadow minister within days? Takes special talent to fail so monumentally.

That may not mean the same thing in Australia as it does here.

Put it this way.......the Sex Offender's Register awaits those who don't understand the difference.

Yes, separated by a common language.....

In my, now ancient, argot.

My definition:



I won't shock you with some of the urban dictionary's alternative definitions.

"Touch up" has been common in most of England at least in the way that Mike has been alluding to for a long time.


If we were to talk about beating someone up, we might talk about "duffing them up" - if you want to sound like a very hard man, you might talk about being in a fight and nearly "getting up the duff"