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Texas bans abortion.

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The fact of the matter is, the eighteenth amendment to the U.S. Constitution banned the production, transport, and sale of alcohol in the United States. Thirteen years later the twenty-first amendment repealed the eighteenth. But there is no language in the twenty-first amendment I don't think, that recognizes a Constitutional right to drink alcohol.

Roe v Wade was different. It established (by a 7-2 Supreme Court ruling) that under the Due Process Clause of the fourteenth amendment, doctors had the right to perform an abortion when they felt it was necessary. That a woman had a right to decide not to carry her pregnancy to term at least up until the point of fetal viability (when the fetus can survive outside the womb). That these were private decisions that the government should not intrude upon. The Court ruled that states could regulate the medical procedures and did have an interest in protecting potential human life once the fetus became viable. But states had to "balance" their need to regulate medical procedures and ensure viable life was protected by the right of women to end pregnancies if they so chose and the right of doctors to perform abortions so long as it was done safely and with the woman's consent.

This is where a lot of people have a problem with the HB2 law in Texas. The law has demonstrated by its results that it tends to restrict a woman's ability to have an abortion and it does that for reasons that do not seem warranted. This is what the Court is looking at. Texas is required to "balance" new medical regulations for abortion while still protecting the woman's right to have one. Essentially they are supposed to balance the two. Texas does not seem to have done that. That the law greatly restricts access to abortion in Texas while providing very little additional safety benefits.
 
I don't see how anyone can argue that drinking alcohol is not a constitutional right in the same way abortion is a right. Neither is specified in the Constitution and this are derived from other ideas in the Constitution.

Uhhhh... We had two amendments specifying drinking alcohol. They use the words "use of" instead of "drink," but what else would they have been talking about?
 
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Uhhhh... We had two amendments specifying drinking alcohol. They use the words "use of" instead of "drink," but what else would they have been talking about?

No we didn't. They only impacted the sale of Alcohol. Drinking and owning alcohol was perfectly legal and many people laid in serious stocks of alcohol perfectly legally before the amendment went into effect.

Actual text of the 18th Amendment

"Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all the territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

Section 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress."
 
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Not at all. States can go totally dry and still be perfectly fine constitutionally. There are dry counties in Texas that the sale of alcohol is totally banned. Nothing to do with the constitution.

Making owning alcohol illegal might start to hit some constitutional issues but they can ban all sale and be fine as far as the constitution is concerned. For example Mississippi was a dry state until 1966.


Dry counties such as Moore County, TN. Famously the home of the Jack Daniels distillery and major source of employment and income for the county population of slightly over 6,000.

And in what can be described as irony or hypocrisy, depending on where you stand, the sale of alcohol is illegal everywhere in the county except the distillery itself, where thanks to a state law exception they are permitted to sell one "commemorative product" at each distillery.

The tax revenue from the tourists who visit Tennessee distilleries (a quarter million or so every year at Jack Daniels alone) has, I am sure (:rolleyes:), absolutely no bearing on this.

I mean surely they wouldn't let filthy lucre stand in the path of principled morality.

For those who are interested, the whiskey tourism industry in Tenn. is so large that businesses put together week long vacation packages just for touring the distilleries.
 
The fact of the matter is, the eighteenth amendment to the U.S. Constitution banned the production, transport, and sale of alcohol in the United States. Thirteen years later the twenty-first amendment repealed the eighteenth. But there is no language in the twenty-first amendment I don't think, that recognizes a Constitutional right to drink alcohol.
Just as there is no language in the Constitution that recognizes a right to abortion. Drinking and getting an abortion (and every other human activity we want to pursue) are both protected under Due Process. We just haven't had any SCOTUS cases where citizens have fought for their right to drink; i.e., most of us accept restrictions on drinking and don't have the resources to fight it all the way to SCOTUS. But I'd wager that if someone did, that SCOTUS would recognize the right to consume alcohol as a fundamental right in the same way and by the same logic as they did abortion. We may yet see a SCOTUS case on a similar issue: marijuana consumption.

Roe v Wade was different. It established (by a 7-2 Supreme Court ruling) that under the Due Process Clause of the fourteenth amendment, doctors had the right to perform an abortion when they felt it was necessary. That a woman had a right to decide not to carry her pregnancy to term at least up until the point of fetal viability (when the fetus can survive outside the womb). That these were private decisions that the government should not intrude upon. The Court ruled that states could regulate the medical procedures and did have an interest in protecting potential human life once the fetus became viable. But states had to "balance" their need to regulate medical procedures and ensure viable life was protected by the right of women to end pregnancies if they so chose and the right of doctors to perform abortions so long as it was done safely and with the woman's consent.
I accept this. But it still leaves a lot of room for argument. Even under strict scrutiny, there is no requirement for the State to show that its "compelling government interest," is based in science. After all, SCOTUS has upheld anti-drug laws as having met that burden.

This is where a lot of people have a problem with the HB2 law in Texas. The law has demonstrated by its results that it tends to restrict a woman's ability to have an abortion and it does that for reasons that do not seem warranted. This is what the Court is looking at. Texas is required to "balance" new medical regulations for abortion while still protecting the woman's right to have one. Essentially they are supposed to balance the two. Texas does not seem to have done that. That the law greatly restricts access to abortion in Texas while providing very little additional safety benefits.
But the results of the law are irrelevant if they meet strict scrutiny. Maybe the SCOTUS finds that the Texas law doesn't. But I think that opens up a can of worms beyond abortion.
 
Just as there is no language in the Constitution that recognizes a right to abortion. Drinking and getting an abortion (and every other human activity we want to pursue) are both protected under Due Process. We just haven't had any SCOTUS cases where citizens have fought for their right to drink; i.e., most of us accept restrictions on drinking and don't have the resources to fight it all the way to SCOTUS. But I'd wager that if someone did, that SCOTUS would recognize the right to consume alcohol as a fundamental right in the same way and by the same logic as they did abortion. We may yet see a SCOTUS case on a similar issue: marijuana consumption.

Already been ruled on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich
 

That case didn't really touch on whether or not someone had a right to marijuana consumption. It just reaffirmed the government's right to regulate interstate commerce. See, this is a good example. The government has an unquestioned right to regulate the distribution of drugs, just as it does the practice of medicine. The law in Gonzales is clearly stupid; it's intent is to stop people from legally using medical marijuana. But this stupidity didn't stop SCOTUS from affirming the law.

Similarly, in the case of the Texas law, Texas clearly has a right to regulate medicine. This may indeed be a stupid law but using the same logic they use to keep stupid drug laws around, as in Gonzalez, I don't see how they get around carving out an exception in the case of abortion.
 
I think the difference with abortion is this: the Supreme Court ruled that abortion is legal and in doing so overturned a multitude of state laws that outlawed it. The Court went further. It recognizes that states will want to regulate the procedure and that groups opposed to abortion may pressure legislatures to do it in a way that will make abortion much less accessible. The Court has ruled that states have to "balance" any new restrictions as to the safety gains versus the impact on access. New restrictions have to balance keeping abortion available with ensuring the safety of women. This is what the plaintiffs allege Texas didn't do.

Abortion case law seems significantly different in comparison to alcohol sales or marijuana use. The basic issues are different. Aborting a pregnancy, being able to buy a six-pack after Midnight, being able to purchase medical marijuana to treat chronic pain. I think each issue is unique from the others. Medical marijuana is probably deserving of it's own thread, in fact it may have one. Restrictions on the sale of alcohol I don't know. I don't see the same kinds of issues there as with the other two.
 
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And there it is.

Elective abortions are legal in Texas, and there are several clinics in the state that offer the service.

So much for "Texas bans abortion".

I wonder what the Fundies would say if a state restricted ammo sales to seven shops in the state?
 
I wonder what the Fundies would say if a state restricted ammo sales to seven shops in the state?

Well, on average, bullets do lead to more necessary hospital visits than abortions in raw numbers.

But there are more guns that wombs, and guns tend to fire at a much higher clip that the average uterus.

Also, don't forget to take suicides into account. And gang activity.
 
Good. **** those scum in Texas trying to pretend the law was intended to help safeguard the women's safety. Never heard a more obvious lie in my life.
 
About time. I've been waiting three years for the decision. At last I can get that abortion.
 
And that is the sure sign that it was all about stopping/putting obstacle to abortion and not about women health care and safety.

The simple solution is force all homes in texas to be built to surgical outpatient standards. Easy really.
 
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