Brexit: the referendum

Why wouldn't you want your electrical goods to be as efficient as possible?
It saves you money.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
I take it this little bump in the road won't interfere with Brussels' very important goal of forcing "global warming" compliant teapots, vacuum cleaners, hairdryers, etc. on the masses, whether they want them or not. I mean, who cares what they want, anyway?
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Yeah, energy efficiency: it's so undemocratic, isn't it.:rolleyes:

Remember when California set the world's emission standards for motor vehicles, simply by virtue of their size. That was such a bad thing, wasn't it?
 
BrooklynBaby said:
I take it this little bump in the road won't interfere with Brussels' very important goal of forcing "global warming" compliant teapots, vacuum cleaners, hairdryers, etc. on the masses, whether they want them or not. I mean, who cares what they want, anyway?
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An excellent example of the kind of "The EU is useless and crazy" story which goes down so well with a Eurosceptic audience. Never mind that manufacturers have been making ever grander power consumption claims for their appliances without them actually being any more effective (my Euro-compliant 620W Numatic Harry has far more "suck" than the 1600W Vax it replaced), we don't want more efficient appliances :rolleyes:

Of course what is hardly ever acknowledged is how other EU environmental legislation now means that most British beaches are safe to bathe at. Until the late 90's (the UK as usual got to flout the rules for longer than other countries) we were pumping raw sewage into the sea. A surfer or bather encountering a "floater" was unfortunately common. The UK was dragged kicking and screaming into it but now we're justifiably proud of our beaches and the tourism that it helps to generate.
 
MikeG said:
Remember when California set the world's emission standards for motor vehicles, simply by virtue of their size. That was such a bad thing, wasn't it?
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There are people, my brother-in-law included, who are vehemently anti-emissions standards. It is his contention that he should be free to pollute as he sees fit (including pouring used motor oil into the public drains).
 
The Don said:
There are people, my brother-in-law included, who are vehemently anti-emissions standards. It is his contention that he should be free to pollute as he sees fit (including pouring used motor oil into the public drains).
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Elements of the USA look like one giant mental health experiment gone wrong, sometimes.
 
It's kinda funny to see so many people in the US happy about this.
 
lionking said:
Whatever. You know exactly the point I'm making. The north can be stronger uniting with the Republic. What's the point staying with a decaying UK now turning its back to Europe?
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Could you lay off the Doom and Gloom for a while?

It's the morning after, and thus far the sky hasn't fallen. The £ dropped a lot, and then recovered a little. Stock markets are down because traders didn't think Brexit would happen at all.

In the next few weeks when it become more obvious that day to day life is not going to change much for at least another 3 years the markets ought to recover somewhat. The reaction of other European markets and world markets shows how interconnected we all are and how we all depend on our friends and business partners across Europe, so while there will no doubt be some over the top rhetoric from the staunchest Europhiles in the weeks to come, in the end if they take punitive economic measures against countries that dare to leave the EU then it'll hurt them significantly too.

Negotiating how and when Brexit will happen is a long and winding road. When all is said and done the UK will likely end up with similar trade agreements and migration agreements with the EU as it has right now.

Also. If the benefits of EU membership were so great and the case to stay so compelling, why on earth was the vote so close? Remain ought to have won this by a country mile. We've heard nothing but doom and gloom and stark economic forecasts for weeks of this campaign. Despite that a majority still turned out and voted to leave. Yes some of the leave voters are xenophobic nutcases, like Mr Farage (who's still a massive count imo), but the far right fringe views don't nearly account for as many votes as Leave got.
 
The Don said:
For many places it's not the water that you're trying to save, it's the power you use to deliver and remove the water.
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Hilary Benn once said in a speech (I think he was quoting, but it might have been his own comment) something along the lines of 'we spend hundreds of millions of pounds cleaning water, removing impurities and bacteria, making it suitable for humans to drink, and then we flush it down the toilet'.
 
The Don said:
An excellent example of the kind of "The EU is useless and crazy" story which goes down so well with a Eurosceptic audience. Never mind that manufacturers have been making ever grander power consumption claims for their appliances without them actually being any more effective (my Euro-compliant 620W Numatic Harry has far more "suck" than the 1600W Vax it replaced), we don't want more efficient appliances :rolleyes:

Of course what is hardly ever acknowledged is how other EU environmental legislation now means that most British beaches are safe to bathe at. Until the late 90's (the UK as usual got to flout the rules for longer than other countries) we were pumping raw sewage into the sea. A surfer or bather encountering a "floater" was unfortunately common. The UK was dragged kicking and screaming into it but now we're justifiably proud of our beaches and the tourism that it helps to generate.
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All true, but that's not to say that a more enlightened UK Government cannot (or, more importantly, will not) pass future UK legislation which improves environmental standards, energy efficiency, and so on. It is incorrect to claim that it is only a body such as the EU that could or would pass legislation to clean up the environment etc, just as it is incorrect to claim that the UK only complied with the EU legislation under duress and would never have created/introduced such legislation under its own steam if it had not been part of the EU.
 
The Don said:
IMO those in favour of Brexit don't fit into a neat homogeneous group.
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I'd certainly agree.

There are some who really do see this as an opportunity to throw off the shackles of the EU and for Britain to make its way in the world - and for the immigration necessary to support that process to continue.
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I'm in this camp. I think the European Union as it was up until yesterday was an over bureaucratic, undemocratic gravy train and was in urgent need of serious reform.

I am for close ties with European trading partners, I am for (almost) free movement of people within Europe.

I voted to leave because I could not in all good conscience vote to remain as part of something I view as corrupt. In my view a vote to remain was a vote for the status quo.

I had hoped that if the leave vote didn't carry the win that enough voters would have voted leave to help push the EU into reform.

I was well aware that there were economic consequences for voting out, and I don't believe that in the long term they will be nearly as severe as many people claim.
 
...But SNP sources and activists within Women for Independence (WFI) said there had been a surge on Friday in membership requests, with people offering to campaign and donating money.


The SNP said it was being inundated with emails from previous no voters now pledging their support for independence after the conclusion of the EU referendum...

source
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Good!

The problem of years of being speculative and divisive about the EU is neglecting your own divides. Europe took note of all the concessions Britain wrested from them, and all what was offered to Scotland to keep her from denouncing the Union.

And be the following crystal clear: If the UK eventually reapplies for a EU membership in the future, it has to drop the sterling pound and adopt the euro. I don't know if it's early to say that Trump-supporter-like Brits had dynamited their own "Wall Street", but it is starting to look that way.
 
Ambrosia said:
I was well aware that there were economic consequences for voting out, and I don't believe that in the long term they will be nearly as severe as many people claim.
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Given that every economist of note that has spoken of the subject disagrees with you, can I ask what your background is in international finance?
 
3point14 said:
Because the campaign was run by liars?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...edge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html
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I despise Nigel Farage. I earnestly hope that now he's achieved his long held political ambition, he'll do the decent thing and bugger off while the grown ups sort out the details. Sadly I suspect "decent thing" is not in his vocabulary.

There were lies and exaggerations and political ******** on both sides of the campaign, I don't think either side covered themselves in glory.

I do think that most people are capable of seeing through the spin and rhetoric and lies. Yes there are fringe idiots, and right wing racists but they certainly don't make up the bulk of the leave vote. There are 45million eligible voters and 17odd million of them voted Leave.
 
3point14 said:
Could you link me to those deceptions carried out by the remain campaign?
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you might want to start looking at the dire predictions of 'every economist of note'

The Remain case basically boiled down to "It'll ruin the economy" I don't have a background in international finance, but there was a recent banking crisis you might recall and a lot of these 'economists of note' were wrong then. What makes them more likely to be correct this time around?
 
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