Brexit: the referendum

Opinion among those leavers I have spoken to this morning is we shouldn't wait for Scotland to have a new Referendum, we should tell them to **** off along with the Northern Irish, they are traitors and money sucking parasites anyway.
One even wants a new 'Hadrians Wall' along the Tweed, proper border posts with guards.
 
A bit of a reality check for those who think that Britain is a special snowflake that will get special treatment during the Brexit process:

Meanwhile, German MEP Manfred Weber, from the party of Chancellor Angela Merkel, insisted on a tough line for the UK: "There cannot be any special treatment for the United Kingdom. Leave means leave. The times of cherry-picking are over."
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36618317
 
Spain makes move on Gib already 'Joint Sovereignty and a Spanish Flag are now closer'

I would say it's further away thsn ever. No way would a pro leave Govt even dare suggest they would give any say to Spain.
 
marplots said:
I hear this about Trump in the US too. Here though - and I'm curious how much this has a parallel in the UK - I think it's more about nationalism and feeling disenfranchised. We threaten the general public about how terrible things will be if they vote a particular way and they reply, "Those dire predictions don't work anymore. It's already terrible. Terrible doesn't scare us as much as it used to."
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He's just tweeted that he's landed in Scotland and we're going wild about taking our country back. Sums not his strong point. Or politics. Or words.
 
marplots said:
I hear this about Trump in the US too. Here though - and I'm curious how much this has a parallel in the UK - I think it's more about nationalism and feeling disenfranchised. We threaten the general public about how terrible things will be if they vote a particular way and they reply, "Those dire predictions don't work anymore. It's already terrible. Terrible doesn't scare us as much as it used to."
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IMO those in favour of Brexit don't fit into a neat homogeneous group.

There are some who really do see this as an opportunity to throw off the shackles of the EU and for Britain to make its way in the world - and for the immigration necessary to support that process to continue.

There are some for whom this is a protest vote. Those in favour of Remain were seen to be the establishment and those in favour of Leave anti-establishment (however ridiculous that may seem given the people involved). Immigration/racism wasn't in itself a major factor for them.

There are a lot of people who have been motivated to vote Leave because of the perceived threat to their livelihoods from immigration. IMO it's not so much racism as xenophobia.
 
The Don said:
A bit of a reality check for those who think that Britain is a special snowflake that will get special treatment during the Brexit process:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36618317
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Oh yes, the gloves are off and the knives are out. Any juicy bit of UKian trade is being eyed.

Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Reality check indeed. £120bn wiped off FTSE would pay for 9 years of EU contributions. No longer 5th largest economy - France have overtaken us. And we're not even out yet.
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Just wait.

Captain_Swoop said:
Spain makes move on Gib already 'Joint Sovereignty and a Spanish Flag are now closer'

I would say it's further away thsn ever. No way would a pro leave Govt even dare suggest they would give any say to Spain.
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You may need to sell the place.
 
Well on the Brightside the votes certainly made my day busy so far with the number of economic queries I'm dealing with at work
 
The Don said:
IMO those in favour of Brexit don't fit into a neat homogeneous group. [ . . . ] There are a lot of people who have been motivated to vote Leave because of the perceived threat to their livelihoods from immigration. IMO it's not so much racism as xenophobia.
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It is fascinating when something like this completely disrupts left/right political demarcations, it almost but not quite gives me encouragement that political parties will have to move away from aligning themselves as left/right.

But I doubt it.
 
Francesca R said:
It is fascinating when something like this completely disrupts left/right political demarcations, it almost but not quite gives me encouragement that political parties will have to move away from aligning themselves as left/right.

But I doubt it.
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But then how would people know who to vote for? They'd have to, I don't know, read a manifesto or something. You can't possibly expect people to be that politically engaged, can you?
 
Francesca R said:
It is fascinating when something like this completely disrupts left/right political demarcations, it almost but not quite gives me encouragement that political parties will have to move away from aligning themselves as left/right.
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Never underestimate angry old white people. They show up at the polls.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Option of 2nd indyref 'on the table' she says and legislation being prepared to make it happen if they decide to hold it. Has to be able to happen before exit.
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There are a couple of differences from last time that weigh against IndyRef 2,

(i) the oil price is less than half of what it was in mid 2014 and few think it spends the next 5-10 years at the $110+ level built into the Scottish government's 2014 projections

(ii) this time there is more obviously no way that Scotland could keep the pound, which Alex Salmond insisted (incorrectly IMO) that it could before (presumably indicating that joining the euro was far less appealing)

(Prepared to stand corrected on ii)
 
Francesca R said:
There are a couple of differences from last time that weigh against IndyRef 2,

(i) the oil price is less than half of what it was in mid 2014 and few think it spends the next 5-10 years at the $110+ level built into the Scottish government's 2014 projections

(ii) this time there is more obviously no way that Scotland could keep the pound, which Alex Salmond insisted (incorrectly IMO) that it could before (presumably indicating that joining the euro was far less appealing)

(Prepared to stand corrected on ii)
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I don't think anything has changed substantially with respect to ii other than whether the SNP would WANT to keep the pound.
 
Right I'm going to try to stop working myself up into a lather about this and just let it be. Can't change it now so just get on with it.
 
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