The existence of God and the efficacy of prayer

[Pixel42]

Seeing ghosts, visions, belief in the paranormal, belief in the power of prayer ... all these things can be explained as the inevitable result of cognitive biases, fallible perceptions and malleable memories. Our brains are hardwired to look for patterns and assign significance to the ones we think we see, and they are so good at it they will see signals in the noise even where there is only noise. We even know why that is - false positives are not as potentially fatal as false negatives, so these biases have been selected for by evolution. Anyone with the understanding of this we have now could have predicted millennia ago that these sort of beliefs would become widespread, regardless of whether there is any real basis for them.

That's why the scientific method had to be invented, and it has proved to be a highly effective way of determining which of the patterns and signals we think we see really are there. The ones that are attributed to the supernatural/paranormal turn out to be amongst those that aren't really there. Sorry, but there it is.

 

[MikeG]

.....I do not believe that crop circles are an alien phenomenon.......about 98% were shown to be hoaxes.......

Do you have a source for this figure?

 

[I Am The Scum]

Can you?

 

[PartSkeptic]

Do you have a source for this figure?

It was a while back. I remember it because it was so high, but now cannot find it.

Looking on the internet, I am surprised at how it has become a cult, with all sorts of pseudo-scientific explanations that discount rope and plank explanations, despite the early evidence that Doug and Dave were among the first pranksters.

 

[abaddon]

It was a while back. I remember it because it was so high, but now cannot find it.

Just a bit like your god, no?

Looking on the internet, I am surprised at how it has become a cult, with all sorts of pseudo-scientific explanations that discount rope and plank explanations, despite the early evidence that Doug and Dave were among the first pranksters.

That's what religion does. Why would you think otherwise? Religion explains nothing beyond "godidit" and demands that no further questions be asked.

 

[I Am The Scum]

It was a while back. I remember it because it was so high, but now cannot find it.

Looking on the internet, I am surprised at how it has become a cult, with all sorts of pseudo-scientific explanations that discount rope and plank explanations, despite the early evidence that Doug and Dave were among the first pranksters.

But why not apply ad hoc rationalization?

The rope and board "pranksters" are actually Reptilians merely pretending to have created a hoax, to distract people who have gotten too close to the truth.

I could easily do this with virtually every belief you have. It's not difficult.

 

[PartSkeptic]

But why not apply ad hoc rationalization?

The rope and board "pranksters" are actually Reptilians merely pretending to have created a hoax, to distract people who have gotten too close to the truth.

I could easily do this with virtually every belief you have. It's not difficult.

IMO for what it is worth, you still do not grasp the concept of probability.

BTW - would you say "dark matter" and "dark energy" are also ad hoc rationalization?

 

[abaddon]

IMO for what it is worth, you still do not grasp the concept of probability.

BTW - would you say "dark matter" and "dark energy" are also ad hoc rationalization?

Those have actual evidence unlike your proposed sky fairy.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

 

[I Am The Scum]

IMO for what it is worth, you still do not grasp the concept of probability.

BTW - would you say "dark matter" and "dark energy" are also ad hoc rationalization?

I don't know enough about dark matter or energy to comment. Sorry.

But if this really is a conversation about probability, then go ahead and show me how you calculated the probability that God "hides" from prayer when he is being tested.

 

[jimbob]

I don't know enough about dark matter or energy to comment. Sorry.

But if this really is a conversation about probability, then go ahead and show me how you calculated the probability that God "hides" from prayer when he is being tested.

Slight derail, and more a jumping off point from that, but doesn't Pastafarianism claim that the FSM has a Noodly Appendage which alters isotope ratios when they are measured?

 

[Thor 2]

In the interest of getting this thread back on track - The existence of God and the efficacy of prayer - I have some personal experience.

I had a born again brother who contracted cancer at a fairly early age. There were many prayer sessions - he died.

At the memorial service held in his church, there were wall to wall Christians and I, plus a friend I dragged along for moral support, were the only heathens there.

I had been seriously ill some few years before and as you can see survived.

The pastor's wife cornered me, questioned my lack of faith, and asked if was was OK now. "We prayed for you you know", she leveled at me - obviously claiming some credit for my recovery.

I could have said, "Well you prayed much more for my brother didn't you?", but good manners prevailed.

 

[Desert Fox]

I have some people argue that "I will pray for you" or "they are in my prayers" is jsut wishing you well just like "bless you" when you are sneezing.
I am not sure how to feel about that myself.

 

[Thor 2]

I have some people argue that "I will pray for you" or "they are in my prayers" is jsut wishing you well just like "bless you" when you are sneezing.
I am not sure how to feel about that myself.

Yes I am sure there are many who use these expressions with no more meaning than that, absolutely not the case with my brothers lot however. I know they had gatherings of the family and friends and they prayed, big time, for my brother.

I like the German expression when you sneeze better. They say Guzuntight (I know the spelling is wrong), which means good health I have been told.

 

[PartSkeptic]

In the interest of getting this thread back on track - The existence of God and the efficacy of prayer - I have some personal experience.

I had a born again brother who contracted cancer at a fairly early age. There were many prayer sessions - he died.

At the memorial service held in his church, there were wall to wall Christians and I, plus a friend I dragged along for moral support, were the only heathens there.

I had been seriously ill some few years before and as you can see survived.

The pastor's wife cornered me, questioned my lack of faith, and asked if was was OK now. "We prayed for you you know", she leveled at me - obviously claiming some credit for my recovery.

I could have said, "Well you prayed much more for my brother didn't you?", but good manners prevailed.

Praying seems to help those who do the praying. I think they feel that are doing something to help. Many are genuine, but some sort of go through the motions.

Orlando (USA) and Cox (UK) are two recent examples of hearing platitudes for the sake of saying the "right thing".

When I hear genuine Christians pray around the table, they do not just say "Bless this food. Amen." They express hope for ventures that various people are going to undertake, and for the health of friends and family, and so on.

If there is a supernatural intelligence it may help keep bad influences at bay. It may help others not to make an impulsive dumb decision that has very negative consequences.

When it comes to "demons" and "bad spirits" it should help. Personally I do not think that demons cause ill health. Mostly that they cause wrong thinking and stress. Not that I think that demons are the reason for true mental illness.

 

[Femke]

snip
I like the German expression when you sneeze better. They say Guzuntight (I know the spelling is wrong), which means good health I have been told.

"Gesundheit".

/pedant

 

[abaddon]

Praying seems to help those who do the praying.

The topic at hand is god and the efficacy of prayer.

How many prayers have resulted in the regrowth of an amputated limb? None.

For reasons unexplained, your god hates amputees. In fact, if one loses the male member, god bans you from his temple.

If one was born female, god bans you from even speaking in his temple.

Now, inevitably, you will bemoan my citing the bible god while ignoring the fact that the bible god is the only one you have cited.

Is it everyone else's fault that you are using the bible as your sole source? No. Stop complaining about people pointing out that is exactly what you are doing.

 

[MikeG]

....When it comes to "demons" and "bad spirits" .....

Right, let's see what mythical creatures we're actually talking about in toto here. We have senior god and junior god, demons, bad spirits. Do we have a devil, too? How about angels? Give us the full list, PS, because it's hard to keep track.

Perhaps, whilst you're at it, you could remind us where the sceptic in your forum name comes into your thinking.

 

[sackett]

PS, I'm sorry for your little picknose God. Really , I am, and of course for his puny, shriveled worshippers huddling in their good-enough-for-now tabernacles.

MY God spins the galaxies and burns in the supernovae! He commands the dread waves of eternal space, yay, the incandenscent fires that consume the suns, and their planets, and the tiny inhabitants of the worlds! Cares HE for their supplications, and their piteous prayers, nor yet for their ludicrous faiths? Not HE! Alone and supreme He ruleth all of Eternity, supreme,changing, immense beyond your withered conceptions!

Fall down and worship if you please, or fall down and despair! Careth He not! nor ever shall! Selah! Amen! Muh!

 

[Desert Fox]

Praying seems to help those who do the praying. I think they feel that are doing something to help. Many are genuine, but some sort of go through the motions.

Does it really? I often see the religious unwilling to accept the death of a relative or child on life support. It seems like just accepting what happened and the reality behind it has its own sort of comfort.

 

[Thor 2]

PS, I'm sorry for your little picknose God. Really , I am, and of course for his puny, shriveled worshippers huddling in their good-enough-for-now tabernacles.

MY God spins the galaxies and burns in the supernovae! He commands the dread waves of eternal space, yay, the incandenscent fires that consume the suns, and their planets, and the tiny inhabitants of the worlds! Cares HE for their supplications, and their piteous prayers, nor yet for their ludicrous faiths? Not HE! Alone and supreme He ruleth all of Eternity, supreme,changing, immense beyond your withered conceptions!

Fall down and worship if you please, or fall down and despair! Careth He not! nor ever shall! Selah! Amen! Muh!

A tad provocative there sacket.

I assume your description of your god is satire but if not you have a problem. Fear not help is at hand.