Moderated Book about Hitchens claims he almost converted

[The Big Dog]

There are methods for circumventing. I am unwilling to discuss those.

He is a christian apologist. It is unsurprising that you find him agreeable.

Read the article, he clearly has no clue. Did you not read it? Surely you did not spam a link which you had not read?

1.

2. He is a christian apologist. Perhaps that is why you found him dis-agreeable?

3. I read the article, I found it an amazingly accurate of the overreaction some atheists have had to Chris's near conversion. Your post, on the other hand seems to consist of nothing but declarations of your conclusion with zero explanations.

 

[Giordano]

I was in the hospital at one point in the past few years and the chaplin came to visit. Being bored, I decided to have an chat with him as to my own atheistic views versus his. In thinking about it, I can now see how an overly enthusiastic theist might have decided that our philosophical chat represented me "considering" a near-death bed conversion, an atheist coming to see the light, etc. I never agree with him or his views- just politely presented my own, discussed his, and shot the breeze. But a fervent believer might, in their own head, decide that I must have been sympathetic simply because I didn't throw him out of the room. All the better if the patient dies- they can never deny that they didn't have a deathbed conversion.

And this is if the theist thinks that they are being honest. Imagine all the cases where the theist is consciously lying for Christ.

 

[jimbob]

I was in the hospital at one point in the past few years and the chaplin came to visit. Being bored, I decided to have an chat with him as to my own atheistic views versus his. In thinking about it, I can now see how an overly enthusiastic theist might have decided that our philosophical chat represented me "considering" a near-death bed conversion, an atheist coming to see the light, etc. I never agree with him or his views- just politely presented my own, discussed his, and shot the breeze. But a fervent believer might, in their own head, decide that I must have been sympathetic simply because I didn't throw him out of the room. All the better if the patient dies- they can never deny that they didn't have a deathbed conversion.

And this is if the theist thinks that they are being honest. Imagine all the cases where the theist is consciously lying for Christ.

The Guardian article I linked to quoted Hitchens's son on the subject. TLDR version - absolutely no reason to think that he'd even considered it. The author doesn't sound like the sort of friend I'd like: "I'm your friend but think that you are largely a celebration of misanthropy, vanity and excess of every kind,” he intones.

Not very friendly, nor to denigrate other people who were his friends.

Like the “the smarmy little physicist Lawrence Krauss”, or the "homosexual activist" Stephen Fry or even the “the serial blasphemer Salman Rushdie”.

 

[The Atheist]

... to Chris's near conversion.

Of course the fact that his own son, who was there all the time, says that no such thing happened shouldn't dissuade you from being utterly wrong.

I'd love to know who you're trying to convince here, us or yourself?

 

[abaddon]

He is a christian apologist. Perhaps that is why you found him dis-agreeable?

Check out William Lane Craig's attempts to morally justify slaughtering infants. Abortion is a no no, but once they are born sharpen your knives.

 

[Desert Fox]

I will often try to talk to Christians to understand why they believe what they believe. It is quite possible that some have believed that they "almost" converted me.

 

[angrysoba]

1.

2. He is a christian apologist. Perhaps that is why you found him dis-agreeable?

3. I read the article, I found it an amazingly accurate of the overreaction some atheists have had to Chris's near conversion. Your post, on the other hand seems to consist of nothing but declarations of your conclusion with zero explanations.

Yeah, but as has been pointed out, Taunton didn't dare make this claim when Hitchens was alive, presumably in the knowledge he would have received a full-on Slap for it. You also know this to be true:

Good taste never worried Hitchens. When anyone accused him of speaking ill of the dead, however, he would smile sweetly and say that he had said just the same when they were alive. As I finished the work of Christopher’s “friend”, I reflected that pious grave robbers never follow his example and go public while their targets are alive, for they do not want to hear them deliver a public rebuttal.

It's basically a case of the dog that didn't bark. If there had been some truth to this, then instead of some cowardly post-mortem attempt to make thirty pieces of silver from a lies, Taunton would have been able to state this when Hitchens was alive. We know full well why he didn't and so do you.

 

[welshdean]

I'd like to ask 16.5 what he thought of the book 'The Faith of Christopher Hitchens' and the claims made within. After all it's been 7 weeks since he thanked the OP for the 'heads-up' regarding the book and declared to all his intention to read it. I've found copies for a few pennies over £5 on Amazon, so price couldn't be an issue. Libraries will provide copies for free of course, should that fiver be too much.

Edited by Agatha: 

Removed remark unsuitable for moderated thread

We could have a more reasoned debate what with us both having read it!

 

[Desert Fox]

I'd like to ask 16.5 what he thought of the book 'The Faith of Christopher Hitchens' and the claims made within. After all it's been 7 weeks since he thanked the OP for the 'heads-up' regarding the book and declared to all his intention to read it. I've found copies for a few pennies over £5 on Amazon, so price couldn't be an issue. Libraries will provide copies for free of course, should that fiver be too much.

The issue is that we do not want to give the author money. We don't want to encourage this to become common and/or make a prophet off of this.

 

[The Big Dog]

I'd like to ask 16.5 what he thought of the book 'The Faith of Christopher Hitchens' and the claims made within. After all it's been 7 weeks since he thanked the OP for the 'heads-up' regarding the book and declared to all his intention to read it. I've found copies for a few pennies over £5 on Amazon, so price couldn't be an issue. Libraries will provide copies for free of course, should that fiver be too much.

Edited by Agatha: 

Removed remark unsuitable for moderated thread

We could have a more reasoned debate what with us both having read it!

I have not had the pleasure of reading it yet.

 

[Giordano]

In thinking about it, I now remember a whole bunch of previously religious "fiends" who renounced all religion on their death beds. Two more pledged to Satan. It's true, and if I am lying they can say so!

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

In thinking about it, I now remember a whole bunch of previously religious "fiends" who renounced all religion on their death beds. Two more pledged to Satan. It's true, and if I am lying they can say so!

I believe you because I want to. Evidence be damned!

 

[Parsman]

Recently a writer spoke with Hitchen's son. He had been with his father all through his last days. The son states, quite categorically, that there was nothing close to a deathbed conversion. I would tend to believe the son rather than a christian apologist.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nversion-christopher-hitchens-defiant-to-last

 

[angrysoba]

There's now an article about this book by Lawrence Krauss:

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-fantasy-of-the-deathbed-conversion

 

[Joey McGee]

The BBC interview where he pointedly refused to spar with Larry was funny too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQDXcobRbnU

 

[abaddon]

There's now an article about this book by Lawrence Krauss:

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-fantasy-of-the-deathbed-conversion

Second to last line about sums it up...

Converting the deceased suggests only that they can’t convince those who can argue back.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

There is, of course, a much better argument that Mother Teresa (spit) was an atheist.

In her own words:

I call, I cling, I want ... and there is no One to answer ... no One on Whom I can cling ... no, No One. Alone ... Where is my Faith ... even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness ... My God ... how painful is this unknown pain ... I have no Faith ... I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart ... & make me suffer untold agony.

So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them ... because of the blasphemy ... If there be God ... please forgive me ... When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul. I am told God loves me ... and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/24/wasmotherteresaanatheist

 

[The Atheist]

There is, of course, a much better argument that Mother Teresa (spit) was an atheist.

Saint Teresa of Calcutta, please. At least give the murdering old hag her due.

I've made that very point, quoting those very phrases on many occasions.

I note a strong difference in christians' desire to discuss that subject as opposed to discussing lies about atheist conversions.

I have a brother who still tells people Bertrand Russell had a death-bed conversion, which I have repeatedly shown him to be utter fabrication, yet he refuses to stop repeating the lie. He's a Catholic and will change the subject immediately if the murdering Albanian hag comes up. (As it does when I mention it, so quite frequently.)

It's all they have. Blind people clutching at invisible straws to preserve their belief in their invisible sky-daddy.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Saint Teresa of Calcutta, please. At least give the murdering old hag her due.

Life *********** hell I will. She's not there yet.

Mother Teresa, the Roman Catholic nun who worked with the poor in the Indian city of Kolkata (Calcutta), is to be declared a saint on 4 September, Pope Francis has announced.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35809891

 

[The Big Dog]

Saint Teresa of Calcutta, please. At least give the murdering old hag her due.

I've made that very point, quoting those very phrases on many occasions.

I note a strong difference in christians' desire to discuss that subject as opposed to discussing lies about atheist conversions.

I have a brother who still tells people Bertrand Russell had a death-bed conversion, which I have repeatedly shown him to be utter fabrication, yet he refuses to stop repeating the lie. He's a Catholic and will change the subject immediately if the murdering Albanian hag comes up. (As it does when I mention it, so quite frequently.)

It's all they have. Blind people clutching at invisible straws to preserve their belief in their invisible sky-daddy.

She was beatified as "Blessed Teresa of Calcutta". Her canonization has been scheduled for 4 September 2016. Until then, she is Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, not Saint Theresa.