Are all sceptics materialists?

[AdamSK]

Of course he didn't do everything by himself, he acquired followers and built an army. It was a whole development.

Right. There was never a single man that conquered the whole Middle East, like you said earlier. A long time after Mohammed died, his followers conquered the whole Middle East. Very different.

There is nothing miraculous about what happened with Islam, and when you attempt to make it look miraculous you end up lying about it.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Mohammed did something extraordinary. According to the tradition, around 610 Archangel Gabriel spoke to him and told him what he needed to do.
Of course he didn't do everything by himself, he acquired followers and built an army. It was a whole development.
Slowly but surely, the Pagans that had different Religions were converted to Islam. The result of this was, eventually, a Golden Age.
Explainable by anthropology? Sure, but it's a stretch. Evidence for the Occult? Maybe. But at least, and that's my point, it's evidence.
No evidence is ever perfect, so this counts as evidence. It just depends on what you compare it to. The Gold Standard is QM, the lowest would be
Computer Simulations. Islam fits somewhere in between ...

Thanks for the laugh, mate! Seriously, though.

 

[MikeG]

.....A long time after Mohammed died, his followers conquered the whole Middle East. ......

Let's split some hairs. In addition to the two blocks of Islam, there are plenty of other religions in the Middle East. Not every government in the ME is Islamic. It isn't the principle religion in every country. So even the reduced claim for Islam that you made is reducible further.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Mohammed did not conquer anything by himself. He gathered followers and acted as leader for a movement comprising thousands of supporters, advisors and soldiers. Those thousands of followers were essential to conquering things. This organization and movement then became the dominant one in an area, controlling large portions of land in the area. This is not only NOT supernatural, this has been a common event in civilizations all over the world throughout all of recorded history.

End of thread...

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I specifically told you what articles to look for. Look at the articles and following discussions on Philosophy and anti-Psychiatry.
Do you have reading comprehension problems?

Post links, with relevant quotes. Do not ask me to do your homework. I'm not asking for someone else's understanding of Materialism, I'm asking for yours.

What's your age, actually? Me, I'm 38. I have defined my terms; AdamSK cleared it up, also.

You have not defined your terms, and AdamSK did not clear anything up for you. Nor should he. Nor would I care if he had.

 

[TheAdversary]

And I specifically asked for the name of an academic who unequivocally supports the notion that "the mind is the brain". I didn't ask for links to someone's
blog.

I also mentioned Dick Swaab multiple times in this thread. Others have commented on this as well.
And Emil Karlsson is one of the most respected scientific sceptics on the Internet.
But this is absurd. You'd be better off asking for an academic who _doesn't_ believe the mind is the brain.
I'm sure there are, but they are certainly not the majority.

 

[TheAdversary]

Nor would I care if he had.

This is the problem. I provide a definition, AdamSK clarifies it, even though he doesn't agree with me he does try to understand what I mean.
But it doesn't matter. You're always going to say I didn't define my terms, like a broken record. Pointless.

 

[MikeG]

Look, I very specifically said:

...... That'll be "the name of an academic who unequivocally supports the notion that the mind is the brain".......

Importantly (don't talk to me about reading comprehension), I also said:

....There is a very great deal of difference between "the mind is the brain" and "the mind is an emergent property of the brain".

If you can't deal with it, just say you can't deal with it.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

This is the problem. I provide a definition, AdamSK clarifies it, even though he doesn't agree with me he does try to understand what I mean.
But it doesn't matter. You're always going to say I didn't define my terms, like a broken record. Pointless.

I'm going to say you didn't define your terms because you haven't. I'm like a broken record because you either refuse or are unable to post a cogent definition of a term which is important to your notions.

 

[TheAdversary]

There is nothing miraculous about what happened with Islam, and when you attempt to make it look miraculous you end up lying about it.

No, you just took it too literally. That he did it by gathering followers and building an army doesn't mean the whole phenomenon wasn't extraordinary,
or that Mohammed wasn't an extraordinary man. And I never said that it proves the supernatural; Merely that it has better evidence than, for example,
Computer Simulation. That has zero evidence; No extraordinary events even point in that direction. Unless, of course, Mohammed was actually contacted
by one of the Programmers ...

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

No, you just took it too literally. That he did it by gathering followers and building an army doesn't mean the whole phenomenon wasn't extraordinary,
or that Mohammed wasn't an extraordinary man. And I never said that it proves the supernatural; Merely that it has better evidence than, for example,
Computer Simulation. That has zero evidence; No extraordinary events even point in that direction. Unless, of course, Mohammed was actually contacted
by one of the Programmers ...

There's far more evidence for Bigfoot being a reality than any of this bollocks you're throwing around... That should tell you something.

 

[TheAdversary]

There's far more evidence for Bigfoot being a reality than any of this bollocks you're throwing around... That should tell you something.

Nobody ever showed me Bigfoot. And they should, because it's an extraordinary claim. Nobody ever showed me any Magical Computer Programmers, either.
Islam however ... it happened and it worked. So, Islam trumps both of those unproven hypothesises in evidence.
Of course, QM, Relativity and of course Thermodynamics trump all. And Neuroscience has a solid case for reductionism. That's why those physical theories moving
into lala-land provides a valid case against reductionism.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Nobody ever showed me Bigfoot. And they should, because it's an extraordinary claim. Nobody ever showed me any Magical Computer Programmers, either.
Islam however ... it happened and it worked. So, Islam trumps both of those unproven hypothesises in evidence.
Of course, QM, Relativity and of course Thermodynamics trump all. And Neuroscience has a solid case for reductionism. That's why those physical theories moving
into lala-land provides a valid case against reductionism.

That's interesting, because you've shown me less than some Bigfoot believers have

I do appreciate you trying to make Islam seem more astounding than it is, though. Kudos on your hobby.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

No, you just took it too literally. That he did it by gathering followers and building an army doesn't mean the whole phenomenon wasn't extraordinary,
or that Mohammed wasn't an extraordinary man. And I never said that it proves the supernatural; Merely that it has better evidence than, for example,
Computer Simulation. That has zero evidence; No extraordinary events even point in that direction. Unless, of course, Mohammed was actually contacted
by one of the Programmers ...

Let's ignore the strawman for a while, since you ignore every attempt to point it out...

What evidence?
Becoming the dominant power in a region is not evidence for the validity of the religion of the conquerors.

To translate your accusation in the OP, using the other posts in the thread:

So I'm accusing the present day scientists or sceptics of being dogmatic Materialists. Otherwise, they should take Islam way more seriously than Multiverses since that's what the evidence says.

You're accusing scientists or sceptics of being dogmatic in claiming the brain is the mind (your 'definition' of a materialist), because they don't take unevidenced religious claims more seriously than they do a thought experiment for which no scientist claims to have evidence anyway.

If it were a bit more coherent I'd call it wrong.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

You're accusing scientists or sceptics of being dogmatic in claiming the brain is the mind (your 'definition' of a materialist), because they don't take unevidenced religious claims more seriously than they do a thought experiment for which no scientist claims to have evidence anyway.

Cogent summary. Thanks.

 

[AdamSK]

Let's split some hairs. In addition to the two blocks of Islam, there are plenty of other religions in the Middle East.

Today, yes. I assume he was talking about Islam as its height. Or was there a non-Islamic region in the Middle East in 1500 CE?

 

[AdamSK]

No, you just took it too literally. That he did it by gathering followers and building an army doesn't mean the whole phenomenon wasn't extraordinary, or that Mohammed wasn't an extraordinary man.

The fact that it has happened many time during history, from Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan, is what makes it non-extraordinary.

 

[MikeG]

Today, yes. I assume he was talking about Islam as its height. Or was there a non-Islamic region in the Middle East in 1500 CE?

I've no idea. I'd have assumed there was Judaism, and christianity. I don't know about the animists, Allouites and so on. I think Zorroastrianism is very new.

 

[Dave Rogers]

How many times do we have to do this?

"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject."

- Winston Churchill

(who, of course, conquered all of Europe on his own)

Dave

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I've no idea. I'd have assumed there was Judaism, and christianity. I don't know about the animists, Allouites and so on. I think Zorroastrianism is very new.

Google is your friend

"Zoroastrianism is one of the world's oldest monotheistic religions. It was founded by the Prophet Zoroaster in ancient Iran approximately 3500 years ago."

I typed "zor", let autocomplete save me typing and got that.