Reincarnation: Soul Evolution?

[Tale]

my saying this to you and you reading it, has just brought judgement day to you and you must heed the call that God is sending to you, if you are to avoid eternal damnation.

So what you're saying is that you're knowingly trying to send people to eternal torture.

Not cool, dude.

 

[MikeG]

So what you're saying is that you're knowingly trying to send people to eternal torture.

Not cool, dude.

Yeah, but if there is almost no-one left on the planet after this purge, the meek self-righteous shall inherit the earth. It's a conspiracy.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

. . .

Now take that general concept and apply it to the real world. We are not a mass of automaton meat puppets, our society is the result of all the spiritual presences that are attached to those biological entities, by way of the interconnectedness between the soul world and the physical universe.

There is far greater evidence that we humans are the result of 3.8 billion years of evolution. When you compare humans as social animals to our closest evolutionary relatives you can see that there is no break where spirituality suddenly manifests itself.

The concepts of the advantage of cooperation, friendship, family, sorrow, love, mourning at death, etc are not restricted to us. Belief in religion or a soul is not required. We are meat puppets. Deal with it and get on with life.

 

[PartSkeptic]

OK I read it again. I experienced a light headed feeling half way though and perhaps did before also, hence the lack of recall.

God is gender less too you say. Glad you cleared that up as I have wondered what he did with his sexual apparatus.

Do you believe that we are made in the image of God? If so what other parts do we have, that God doesn't, apart from the sexual bits?

Your giddiness is understandable.

I think God (if he exists) is formless, just as souls are. He has intelligence and purpose (and goodness), and I think that is where any similarity ends. What else does he/she/it need to have? Do we have such a sexless/multi-sex equivalent here on Earth?

I am going to try to put in my disclaimers that much of this is my opinion. In another thread about the efficacy of prayer, I argue about scientific facts as I understand the science to be. Have a look.

I do believe in the Big Bank, quantum physics, evolution, and all "established" science. I do not accept conjecture that has no evidence (or clues or indications) no matter who the scientist is. I can accept a theory or hypothesis as possible as long as the underlying rationale is carefully explained.

My own hypothesis is based on personal events, and the stories of others. I accept that the elements of objectivity and specific repeatability are missing. Anyone who says that people do not perceive ghosts (whatever the cause) is in denial (and not the river that flows through Egypt). It is too common and specific and has a long history.

 

[PartSkeptic]

Lollikum.

You are a newbie, and swimming in a pool of sharks.

Preaching in this forum will be like bleeding blood.

But we all have to start somewhere.

I must admit I cannot see where your contributions are on topic. You may want to start you own thread rather than derail this one.

 

[bruto]

That shrinking prayer is out of date.
True faith must chastise, rend and prate.
The lesson of humility is best expressed by Sadducees.

Apostates make you sorely vexed
When you're so sure you own the text.
Although we've changed the names of tribes, in olden days they called them Scribes.

I'll gladly keep my dread disease, and shun the pride of Pharisees.

 

[PartSkeptic]

You didn't notice whose post that was in response to? You don't think that accusing me of being mentally ill is justification for a strong response?

My apologies.

Pressure of other commitments making react without due deliberation. We are good again.

(BTW: I am losing weight by cutting back severely on my intake of food. Slightly above a fast. It makes me very lightheaded and sometimes I lose focus. No hallucinations yet! The bonus is that my health and my well-being is improving dramatically.)

 

[MikeG]

That shrinking prayer is out of date.
True faith must chastise, rend and prate.
The lesson of humility is best expressed by Sadducees.

Apostates make you sorely vexed
When you're so sure you own the text.
Although we've changed the names of tribes, in olden days they called them Scribes.

I'll gladly keep my dread disease, and shun the pride of Pharisees.

Just tell me this is your own work before I nominate it.......

 

[Lolly123]

Lollikum.

You are a newbie, and swimming in a pool of sharks.

Preaching in this forum will be like bleeding blood.

But we all have to start somewhere.

I must admit I cannot see where your contributions are on topic. You may want to start you own thread rather than derail this one.

OK, but keep in mind that the thread was already derailed. I started off being very on topic but then was attacked for even believing in a soul in the first place, so all those people need to start up a thread on whether souls exist or not, and to stop derailing my discussion of soul origin and development, which is supposed to be the topic of this thread.
Anyway, this seems to not be a good forum for me because of sensitivity issues like not saying there is an organic reason for why some people think the way they do.
Odd, since apparently no one on this thread have souls other than me, so how on earth they cannot accept a physical reason is beyond me.

 

[MikeG]

....this seems to not be a good forum for me because of sensitivity issues like not saying there is an organic reason for why some people think the way they do........

Yeah, I can't imagine for a minute why saying that atheists are mentally ill would annoy anyone.

 

[Joey McGee]

I can't think of a better way to waste your life away than allowing yourself to become delusional over thinking you are communicating with ghosts and being contacted by them. Everything has a purpose, all energy is eventually balanced in the universe, this is all a lesson, you'll see them all again, it's like a never ending tv show that just gets weirder but somehow all ties together. This was the way I thought and lived for half of my lifetime. What a stupid *********** cult, what a giant *********** waste of time, what a gullible moron I was for all of that. What a bunch of delusional waste of life. What's the evidence for it?

I can't possibly have imagined that and

That's too much of a coincidence

Give your head a shake...

 

[Lolly123]

Yeah, I can't imagine for a minute why saying that atheists are mentally ill would annoy anyone.

OK, just as a note and they can remove this post if they want but I am no noobie to forums and have posted extensively on another forum that has double d's in the middle of its name and have never been moderated for my views on this thing you mention here.

 

[MikeG]

If you are a regular on fora, one might expect you to read the rules when you join a new one. Start with 0 and 12, but they all count.

 

[Joey McGee]

I think saying atheists are mentally ill is a fair argument. There are many psychiatrists, working, accredited, wealthy professionals who say that conservatism, as well as liberalism, are mental illnesses. The stupidity of this is one of my favorite subjects. But I think discussing why people reach this conclusion is a worthy topic of discussion.

Mike, I think you jumped the gun. I think a thread on why we're all mentally ill would be better than half of the stupidity currently trending.

 

[Alice Shortcake]

I don't know a single person in my wide circle of friends and acquaintances who goes to church. Religion is never talked about here, ever. The default assumption is that people are atheists. Every village in my area has a gorgeous ancient church in it, and they have such small congregations that vicars cover 6, 8 and even sometimes 10 parishes. The services are held in a different church each week, and even when there are 6 congregations combined in the one church they rarely get a dozen people in attendance, and they are all 70 plus years old.

QFT. Many Americans seem unable to grasp the idea that religion is TOTALLY irrelevant to the majority of Brits - the only reason I'd set foot in a church is to attend a concert.

 

[bruto]

Just tell me this is your own work before I nominate it.......

Yes, doggerel R us!

 

[Thor 2]

Your giddiness is understandable.

I think God (if he exists) is formless, just as souls are. He has intelligence and purpose (and goodness), and I think that is where any similarity ends. What else does he/she/it need to have? Do we have such a sexless/multi-sex equivalent here on Earth?

I am going to try to put in my disclaimers that much of this is my opinion. In another thread about the efficacy of prayer, I argue about scientific facts as I understand the science to be. Have a look.

I do believe in the Big Bank, quantum physics, evolution, and all "established" science. I do not accept conjecture that has no evidence (or clues or indications) no matter who the scientist is. I can accept a theory or hypothesis as possible as long as the underlying rationale is carefully explained.

My own hypothesis is based on personal events, and the stories of others. I accept that the elements of objectivity and specific repeatability are missing. Anyone who says that people do not perceive ghosts (whatever the cause) is in denial (and not the river that flows through Egypt). It is too common and specific and has a long history.

If you accept evolution as fact how do you blend your idea about the existence of souls into it? I mean when was the first soul?

Your vague description of God doesn't seem to conform to the general Christian notion that we were made in his image.

 

[PartSkeptic]

OK, but keep in mind that the thread was already derailed. I started off being very on topic but then was attacked for even believing in a soul in the first place, so all those people need to start up a thread on whether souls exist or not, and to stop derailing my discussion of soul origin and development, which is supposed to be the topic of this thread.
Anyway, this seems to not be a good forum for me because of sensitivity issues like not saying there is an organic reason for why some people think the way they do.
Odd, since apparently no one on this thread have souls other than me, so how on earth they cannot accept a physical reason is beyond me.

Compared to other threads I have been on this one was doing quite well.

I have had posts deleted or removed because I got caught up in the attacks. In this forum they want people to stay on topic and not be too nasty. I now try hard. Pick your battles.

Anyhow, up to you and the moderators.

 

[PartSkeptic]

If you accept evolution as fact how do you blend your idea about the existence of souls into it? I mean when was the first soul?

Your vague description of God doesn't seem to conform to the general Christian notion that we were made in his image.

I am Christian by virtue of having been sent to Sunday school, and by choice of a religion to identify with. I think Christians may have part of the truth but that other religions have a part of the truth also. That "truth" being how the supernatural world works. Part of me is skeptical, and I accept that it may not exist except as "wishful thinking" to explain strange events.

If souls evolved with the evolution of life forms, then the first souls were very elemental, and had almost no intelligence. Elemental souls have to come into existence, and one presumes God controls that. It is a parallel course of evolution in the "soul dimension".

I do not know these things, and I do not think any of us can know any of it with certainty. I am trying to find an explanation that fits the supernatural events that have some probability of being genuine (not knowingly fraudulent) and that has no obvious contradictions.

Unfortunately I have to fall back on saying "God controls" for those things that our human history does not give us clues to.

 

[Steve001]

Good constructive question.

This was one problem that I thought about. And now you just forced me to research what is on the internet about souls, and what religions think. Obviously I had done some reading already.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/afterlife.html
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-an-Afterlife.htm
Comparative Religion for Dummies.

Early Humans: Buried with food and hunting equipment for the afterlife.
Egyptians: In the afterlife sinners got punished
Socrates and Plato: Souls think and are reborn
Early Christianity: Augustine had a trichotomic view – body and spirit and soul (my viewpoint).
Later Christianity: dichotomic view – body and spirt/soul (spirit and soul are two words for the same thing)
Christianity: Soul created at conception by God.
Judaism: The Torah is silent on the afterlife. Some say “life” does not die with the body .
Islam: Soul goes to Heaven or Hell. More pleasures in Heaven.
Hinduism: Soul has always been eternal, and gets instantly reborn after death.
Buddhism: Somewhat agnostic about it.
Animism: Our ancestor live in the spirit world
Jainism: Every living thing has a soul. Reborn until liberation achieved.
Taoism: Multiple souls.
Science: Still seeking.
New Age: Various.

I believe in the Big Bang and evolution. These are recent discoveries and religions have not properly addressed this with regard to souls and spirit.

What about the ancestors of man? How far back does one go before saying that “pre-man” did not have a soul? If they did, did they also go to Heaven or Hell (and stay there eternally!)?

It is for this reason that I think souls evolve, and are reborn. For logical consistency, all life might have a soul, however elemental or simple. These would form the origin of our souls, and the source material is a dimension (for want of a better word) that is much like the underlying “fields” of our physical world. An elemental soul can “pop” into existence much like a physical particle can.

Imagine yourself alive say 100,000 years ago and you completely lack any understanding of how the human psyche works. You've just awakened from a nights sleep and while asleep you dreamt of a beloved deceased relative. By the way, you have no comprehension what dreams actually are. Now the question is, what do you think the likely explanation would be to explain dreaming of your loved one for anyone alive that long ago? a) it was just a dream and therefore not real?, b) it was the spirit of the loved one?