Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

You really need a good look in the mirror. Few, other than you, default so much into slut-shaming. "This case" was initially leaked to the press as if it had something to do with sex games, and none of the courts - even the ones you cite - agree with that.

But it is nice you devolve into conspiracy and "big money". Lurkers (if any are left) can make of that what they wish.

Do you have soft shoes, Bill? You sure do a good shuffle.

 

[Bill Williams]

Do you have soft shoes, Bill? You sure do a good shuffle.

Godwin's corollary #2 - the responder will make a non sequitor invoking shoes.

 

[TruthCalls]

Wrong. A large majority of courts and all of the merits court - which evaluates the evidence - found the pair guilty.

If that woman wins her ECHR claim, she will join the ranks of this fellow here, an affront to upright decent law-abiding citizens everywhere:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/671433/somali-criminal-abdiweli-gedi-theresa-may-human-rights

A "large majority"? You mean Massei and Nencini. That's two. Hellmann acquitted them and the Supreme Court concluded there wasn't a shred of evidence to show they were involved in the crime. I know how you people like to pretend the Hellmann court never ruled on the case but history begs to differ.

You must be using some funky new math to make such crazy statistical claims.

 

[Kauffer]

Hysterical gobbledegook. Two merits courts found insurmountable evidence of the pair's culpability. Marasca & Bruno had to trudge up excuses such as the'police' and 'press' to acquit, given the physical evidence is rock solid.
The true prudes and misogynists are the sexist ***** who feel free to make disgusting sexist comments to people who happen to disagree with them.

Make no mistake, big money was involved in this, and the case has zero to do with 'slut shaming'. This is the 21st century. No-one cares a darn who shags whom.

However, reckless promiscuity remains a Hare's diagnostic of psychopathy, and this is how it is relevant to Amanda's conduct and callous outlook on life. It is legitimate to discuss her unwanted attentions towards Mez, given the evidence against her in this murder and sexual assault. Mez' privacy, dignity and right to withhold consent were violated to gratify the urges of degenerates imposing their will on her.

ETA Having sex with a drug dealer in exchange for drugs is prostitution.

What physical evidence? The knife, which was too big for any of the wounds, had bread on it, yet the nonsense claim was it had been bleach cleaned of blood but not Kercher's DNA. The clasp was a dirty contaminated item collected by idiots 46 days too late. It is proof of nothing. But nobody has ever tried to explain how Knox and Sollecito could be party to a bloody knife murder, which turned a bedroom into an abbatoir and yet neither left so much a trace of themselves in blood in the room, their DNA on her body or belongings, or took evidence away as transfer.

As for the relationship between Knox and Kercher, your fabrications are repetitive and evidence less. But, in this, you share the company of Kercher's own father, who was prepared to trash the reputation of his daughter as a kind and generous person in order to cast aspersions on Knox.

Some medicine might help with what appears to be a simple matter of your having thought disorders in connection with this case.

 

[Bill Williams]

As for the relationship between Knox and Kercher, your fabrications are repetitive and evidence less. But, in this, you share the company of Kercher's own father, who was prepared to trash the reputation of his daughter as a kind and generous person in order to cast aspersions on Knox.

Some medicine might help with what appears to be a simple matter of your having thought disorders in connection with this case.

Meredith's boyfriend's testimony in front of the Massei court, was sumarized by Massei in 2010 thusly:

Giacomo Silenzi: .............. He knew that four girls - Meredith Kercher, Amanda Knox, Laura Mezzetti and Filomena Romanelli - had been living upstairs since September 2007.

He had had a romantic relationship with Meredith, which had begun a couple of weeks before she was killed.

There were no particular problems between the girls; the only complaint had been about cleaning the house.

The relationship between Amanda and Meredith was normal and friendly.​

Yet for some reason haters prefer Rudy Guede's assessment of the relationship between these two housemates and friends. Note also that while Meredith was in a relationship with Silenzi, Rudy claims it was Meredith who let him in that night and that they'd had consensual sex.

Haters are bizarre - in believing Rudy over Silenzi they are further trashing Meredith's character.

 

[TruthCalls]

Hysterical gobbledegook. Two merits courts found insurmountable evidence of the pair's culpability. Marasca & Bruno had to trudge up excuses such as the'police' and 'press' to acquit, given the physical evidence is rock solid.
The true prudes and misogynists are the sexist ***** who feel free to make disgusting sexist comments to people who happen to disagree with them.

Make no mistake, big money was involved in this, and the case has zero to do with 'slut shaming'. This is the 21st century. No-one cares a darn who shags whom.

However, reckless promiscuity remains a Hare's diagnostic of psychopathy, and this is how it is relevant to Amanda's conduct and callous outlook on life. It is legitimate to discuss her unwanted attentions towards Mez, given the evidence against her in this murder and sexual assault. Mez' privacy, dignity and right to withhold consent were violated to gratify the urges of degenerates imposing their will on her.

ETA Having sex with a drug dealer in exchange for drugs is prostitution.

You really are a piece of work, aren't you.

"Insurmountable evidence" - How melodramatic of you. However, neither Hellmann or the Supreme Court found the evidence insurmountable. In fact, neither court saw any evidence at all.

"the physical evidence is rock solid" - Yeah, OK. You keep clinging to Stefanoni's bogus analysis and science defying conclusions. The rest of the real world see things significantly different.

"big money was involved in this" - You DO have evidence of this, right. Of course you don't, but hell, you've proven time and again that you don't need no stinkin evidence to 'prove a point'. You must have attended the same school for evidence evaluation as Giobbi.

"reckless promiscuity" - Define reckless promiscuity. She had one more partner while in Italy than Meredith. If Amanda's sexual activities equate to a Hare's diagnosis of psychopathy then the world is loaded with psychopath's. Not that it's any of your business but Amanda had seven partners at the time of the murder. By typical college girl standards Amanda was practically a virgin.

"her unwanted attentions towards Mez" - What unwanted attention might you be referring to? Surely nothing related to the murder committed by Guede as I know YOU know she was acquitted of that crime. Maybe you're referring to Amanda going to clubs with Meredith, or maybe taking in the chocolate festival for two days.. or maybe you mean going to the classical music concert with her. I mean, all this unwanted attention by Amanda towards Meredith is clear evidence of her desire to murder Meredith.

Isn't it time for your meds?

 

[acbytesla]

You really are a piece of work, aren't you.

"Insurmountable evidence" - How melodramatic of you. However, neither Hellmann or the Supreme Court found the evidence insurmountable. In fact, neither court saw any evidence at all.

"the physical evidence is rock solid" - Yeah, OK. You keep clinging to Stefanoni's bogus analysis and science defying conclusions. The rest of the real world see things significantly different.

"big money was involved in this" - You DO have evidence of this, right. Of course you don't, but hell, you've proven time and again that you don't need no stinkin evidence to 'prove a point'. You must have attended the same school for evidence evaluation as Giobbi.

"reckless promiscuity" - Define reckless promiscuity. She had one more partner while in Italy than Meredith. If Amanda's sexual activities equate to a Hare's diagnosis of psychopathy then the world is loaded with psychopath's. Not that it's any of your business but Amanda had seven partners at the time of the murder. By typical college girl standards Amanda was practically a virgin.

"her unwanted attentions towards Mez" - What unwanted attention might you be referring to? Surely nothing related to the murder committed by Guede as I know YOU know she was acquitted of that crime. Maybe you're referring to Amanda going to clubs with Meredith, or maybe taking in the chocolate festival for two days.. or maybe you mean going to the classical music concert with her. I mean, all this unwanted attention by Amanda towards Meredith is clear evidence of her desire to murder Meredith.

Isn't it time for your meds?

That was an excellent post Truth. I do so much like your reply to Vixen's absurd comment about Amanda's "unwanted attentions towards Mez". I do think you should have also mentioned all those texts between Mez and Amanda ending with kisses.

Vixen dismisses this as something perfunctory but seriously, who receiving unwanted attention sends kisses to that person?

I don't believe for one second that Amanda and Mez didnt have a budding friendship. They certainly weren't enemies.

 

[bagels]

Hysterical gobbledegook. Two merits courts found insurmountable evidence of the pair's culpability.

Vixen you should try to escape this delusional fantasy you've created for yourself. Here is an incomplete list of things you believe by default:

-Amanda Knox is the only junkie prostitute in the world to test negative for drugs.
-The murder weapon is the only murder weapon in the world to test negative for blood but yield DNA, to be too large to fit the wounds, and to not match the bloody imprint left by the actual murder weapon.
-Amanda Knox, by astonishing coincidence, managed to stage the precise break-in method used by the burglar, the only one who actually left bloody forensics all over the scene, in a previous burglary only he was directly connected to.
-You pretend the Hellmann court which fully exonerated her doesn't exist. To deny the existence of an internationally covered event documented by official court documents and rulings, that took place over the course of a year, is simply the definition of delusion.

Have you ever thought about re-evaluating the events so that your interpretation of them does not rely on reality bending fantasies? Just a thought.

 

[Bill Williams]

Vixen you should try to escape this delusional fantasy you've created for yourself. Here is an incomplete list of things you believe by default:

-Amanda Knox is the only junkie prostitute in the world to test negative for drugs.
-The murder weapon is the only murder weapon in the world to test negative for blood but yield DNA, to be too large to fit the wounds, and to not match the bloody imprint left by the actual murder weapon.
-Amanda Knox, by astonishing coincidence, managed to stage the precise break-in method used by the burglar, the only one who actually left bloody forensics all over the scene, in a previous burglary only he was directly connected to.
-You pretend the Hellmann court which fully exonerated her doesn't exist. To deny the existence of an internationally covered event documented by official court documents and rulings, that took place over the course of a year, is simply the definition of delusion.

Have you ever thought about re-evaluating the events so that your interpretation of them does not rely on reality bending fantasies? Just a thought.

This is how the Marasca/Bruno motivations report puts it, in Section 8, by first laying out the obvious - AK/RS could not have been involved, there is no evidence of them in the murder room:

8.1. An element of evidence of unchallengeable relevance - for the reasons
explained hereinafter - is represented by the total absence of biological traces
attributable with certainty to the two defendants in the murder room or on the body
of the victim, whereas, instead, abundant traces surely attributable to Guede have
been found.

This was an insurmountable monolithic barrier on the path taken by the factfinding judge (cf. Nencini) to arrive at the conviction of the present defendants, already acquitted
previously for the murder by the Court of Appeals of Perugia. (cf. Hellmann)​

 

[acbytesla]

This is how the Marasca/Bruno motivations report puts it, in Section 8, by first laying out the obvious - AK/RS could not have been involved, there is no evidence of them in the murder

Marasca/Bruno
"is represented by the total absence of biological traces attributable with certainty to the two defendants in the murder room or on the body of the victim, whereas, instead, abundant traces surely attributable to Guede have been found."

How can Vixen ignore that?

 

[Kauffer]

This is how the Marasca/Bruno motivations report puts it, in Section 8, by first laying out the obvious - AK/RS could not have been involved, there is no evidence of them in the murder room:

​

Quote:
8.1. "An element of evidence of unchallengeable relevance....is represented by the total absence of biological traces attributable with certainty to the two defendants in the murder room or on the body of the victim, whereas, instead, abundant traces surely attributable to Guede have been found.
This one small paragraph disposes of any possibility that the notion of Knox and Sollecito being guilty of murder could be true given the absence of evidence in the room. It was the responsibility, nay the duty, of the prosecutor, police and investigating judge to ask themselves how it could be possible and to accept that if they could not find a durable answer, then the case has collapsed. Additionally, there is no evidence in the form of shoe or finger prints in blood in the room other than Guede.

I am unaware of any attempt by any PG sympathiser to account for the absence of evidence in the room, other than Yummi, who once asserted that Knox and Sollecito must have run out of the room quickly (and quicker than Guede), thus avoiding the river of blood and, presumably, the spatter! Yet, according to him, they came back later to clean up, but still left no evidence of their presence in the room and still took nothing away with them.

The popular conception of Knox as the murderer relied exclusively on innuendo and fabrication together with a reliance on disputed forensic traces elsewhere, without an appreciation of their necessary source (if actually present and related to the murder) within the room itself - and this is impossible. Yet, given the evidence of the room, one could concede every fabricated claim about Knox - that she was an addict, a whore, a sociopath, a user, a temptress, a fox and indeed that she had left Sollecito's apartment that night or that she truly hated Kercher, and still she would be demonstrably innocent of her murder.

 

[Vixen]

The ad hominem really starts when one simply reposts the evidence.... like this:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_5397154cd64bdf2e8d.jpg[/qimg]​

For some reason, reposting evidence is supposed to be a sign of delusion. Well - is that glove dirty or isn't it? Is the bra-clasp dirty, or did Meredith wear it that way? Be that as it may, it is better than just reposting the slur or defamation against people like Knox, that she's more evil than Hitler or that Bruce Fischer is on the Mellas payroll, and that those on that payroll all know that Knox is guilty....

...... but who never once buttress those claims with evidence.

Which is worse, reposting the obvious evidence..... actual evidence, or simply reposting the slur with no evidence ever?

No crime scene is sterile. The whole area was covered in every day dust and chaos.

A speck on a glove (probably a photographic etch) is a complete red herring and has nothing at all to do with DNA.

You still haven't answered the question: What was Raff's near full DNA profile doing on Mez' bra clasp? (Whom he claimed he had never met.)

 

[Bill Williams]

No crime scene is sterile. The whole area was covered in every day dust and chaos.

A speck on a glove (probably a photographic etch) is a complete red herring and has nothing at all to do with DNA.

You still haven't answered the question: What was Raff's near full DNA profile doing on Mez' bra clasp? (Whom he claimed he had never met.)

These three paragraphs are stupid, even for you.

 

[Kauffer]

No crime scene is sterile. The whole area was covered in every day dust and chaos.

A speck on a glove (probably a photographic etch) is a complete red herring and has nothing at all to do with DNA.

You still haven't answered the question: What was Raff's near full DNA profile doing on Mez' bra clasp? (Whom he claimed he had never met.)

Of course he had met Kercher! What nonsense!

The better question is what was his DNA not doing on the fabric of the bra. Or, what was it not doing on her body, or anywhere else in the room. And why is there no evidence of Sollecito in blood in the room? The other contributors to the bra DNA are not suspicious to you? Why? There is no other evidence of them in the room either. Whether Sollecito's profile was full or partial has what bearing on this matter?

The presence of DNA on the clasp is explained by the highly likely supposition of innocent transfer or laboratory contamination, because, contextually, it's presence on the clasp cannot be explained in any other way. If he was in the room, necessarily there would be additional evidence of him. There is nothing.

Guede, in this case, provides the experimental data to support this hypothesis. We know he was in the room. Evidence of him in the form of prints in Kercher's blood, time stamps him there. As does his DNA on Kercher, in Kercher and on her belongings. And yet, according to you, Knox did the stabbing! So Guede's role in the murder was secondary and there is abundant evidence of him; Knox's role was primary and there is no evidence of her!! This is incoherent. Minimally there would be a weighty collection of physical evidence of Sollecito too, particularly in blood. Yet there is nothing.

 

[JREF2010]

I just did a check for the price of Pot and now I probably have the DEA looking at me.

I have never smoked Pot myself but I believe an ounce and a half is a lot of Pot.

lol... the DEA.... its almost legal in 17 states in the US. imo, has a thousand times less negative effect as alcohol. the old prohibition of the "weed" is comical to me...although in Arizona you can go straight to prison! when in Colorado you can smoke it and buy it anywhere, everywhere.

I dont know how Italy looks at it but Filomena made some lame comment to the judge "yes Ive sinned" or some ********, as if she has attached some evil-religious crap from 10,000 yrs ago onto smoking a plant.(however smoking a tobacco plant is totally not evil? ahahaha)

I hope the DEA has better things to do, but you never know ...

 

[Bill Williams]

It seems that Vixen also wants to spend time making unsourced videos, put to Rolling Stones' music. This person is obsessed!

 

[NotEvenWrong]

No crime scene is sterile. The whole area was covered in every day dust and chaos.

All the more reason to follow proper protocol when collecting evidence. Forensic scientists don't create strict protocols to follow just for the funsies.

A speck on a glove (probably a photographic etch) is a complete red herring and has nothing at all to do with DNA.

Visible dirt on the glove means the glove wasn't sterile. One can change gloves, Vixen. Gloves need to be sterile when collecting evidence. They need to be changed to clean, sterile gloves after touching something dirty because that is how contamination happens. If you had more than a introductory wikipedia level knowledge of biology you would know this.

You still haven't answered the question: What was Raff's near full DNA profile doing on Mez' bra clasp? (Whom he claimed he had never met.)

It was transferred there through contamination because the investigators didn't follow protocol. This has been explained to you numerous times. There are books and papers by top forensic scientists written on this very subject. The same ones we have linked to you (and you have ignored) probably a few hundred times at this point.

(I am also fairly positive that Raffaele did not claim he never met Meredith, but whatever.)

 

[Desert Fox]

lol... the DEA.... its almost legal in 17 states in the US. imo, has a thousand times less negative effect as alcohol. the old prohibition of the "weed" is comical to me...although in Arizona you can go straight to prison! when in Colorado you can smoke it and buy it anywhere, everywhere.

I dont know how Italy looks at it but Filomena made some lame comment to the judge "yes Ive sinned" or some ********, as if she has attached some evil-religious crap from 10,000 yrs ago onto smoking a plant.(however smoking a tobacco plant is totally not evil? ahahaha)

I hope the DEA has better things to do, but you never know ...

I don't drink either (or smoke tobacco for that matter). . . .I don't like any loss of self control. This is just me though.

One of the biggest lobbyist with regard to keeping pot criminal is the prison guard unions and private prison systems. It is self perpetuating.

I suspect there is a strange religious / not religious vibe in Italy. They say the words but don't really life the way that they say that they do.

 

[TruthCalls]

That was an excellent post Truth. I do so much like your reply to Vixen's absurd comment about Amanda's "unwanted attentions towards Mez". I do think you should have also mentioned all those texts between Mez and Amanda ending with kisses.

Vixen dismisses this as something perfunctory but seriously, who receiving unwanted attention sends kisses to that person?

I don't believe for one second that Amanda and Mez didnt have a budding friendship. They certainly weren't enemies.

I've always been amused at the claims that Meredith did these things with Amanda because she felt she had to because she was her housemate and needed to keep things cordial.

Confirmation bias is an incredibly powerful phenomena.

 

[TruthCalls]

No crime scene is sterile. The whole area was covered in every day dust and chaos.

A speck on a glove (probably a photographic etch) is a complete red herring and has nothing at all to do with DNA.

You still haven't answered the question: What was Raff's near full DNA profile doing on Mez' bra clasp? (Whom he claimed he had never met.)

Why don't you answer the questionS...

1. WHY did a severed bra clasp, laying in the middle of the floor of the murder room go uncollected for 46 days and MULTIPLE inspections through the room? Hmm... maybe it WAS collected and then returned after adding some DNA? That's the kind of fanciful stuff the PGP eats up anyway.
2. WHY did the clasp finally get collected using gloves, instead of tweezers, and why did the first technician fondle the clasp and rub the hook with his/her finger before passing it along as if in Show in Tell?
3. WHY did they place the clasp back down on the floor to photograph it rather than photographing it on day one, or even on day 47 BEFORE picking it up?
4. WHERE is your evidence that the speck on the gloves was NOT DNA?
5. WHY was the clasp improperly stored, causing it to rust and render it useless for any subsequent testing?
6. WHY was the sample only amplified once when the DNA attributed to Raffaele was LCN (under 200 pg)? ...and since when did one amplification for an LCN analysis become "reliable" evidence?

And... perhaps directly related to Raffaele's DNA on the clasp;

7. WHY did the SP NOT test the hall facing door handle, door jam or molding for DNA? (hint: I know they said because the crime was on the other side of the door, but in light of testing done in the hallway, Filomena's room and the small bathroom, this particular 'lame excuse' by the keystone kops doesn't really wash. You have a better one?)