I found the missing Jolt.

I wonder if he says that because of the non-existent vertical "gash" that some people say the photographs show on the south face of WTC 7. Simply zooming in on the clearest photographs show that there was no "gash", you can tell by the way the perimeter web shows straight lines that it's probably just cladding that got smashed off.

I have had the same thought as to why Larry is saying this. I am not sure if he actually believes it is what happened.

No matter what he is not correct, as the antenna clearly falls in the opposite direction.
 
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I wonder if he says that because of the non-existent vertical "gash" that some people say the photographs show on the south face of WTC 7. Simply zooming in on the clearest photographs show that there was no "gash", you can tell by the way the perimeter web shows straight lines that it's probably just cladding that got smashed off.

"Well, Jerry, it looks like we've got a classic thruther ignore-off match in progress here."

"Yes, Gary, the competitors have made some good initial moves already. Looks like an entertaining game in prospect."

"Just for all you viewers out there, I'll explain the rules. The aim is to ignore as much of the evidence as possible, so each player takes it in turn to state that a piece of evidence is faked, or misinterpret what it means, or simply pretend it doesn't exist. The winner is the one who can ignore the most evidence without going so far that the rest of the truthers call him a disinformation agent."

"And what about negative or inferential evidence, Gary?"

"Good point, Jerry. It all counts. Pretending there were explosions although nobody could see or hear them is a classic move, so is saying people heard explosions but conveniently forgetting that they were after the collapses, or about an hour before them. It all scores points.

"So who are our competitors today, Gary?"

"Well, in the blue corner, we've got Tony "The Jolt" Szamboti, an old hand at the game. Some of the evidence truthers just routinely ignore these days, he was the first to ignore; a real innovator at the sport. And in the... not sure what colour it is, maybe fuchsia with a dash of taupe - we've got the new contender, MicahJava. Untested, but he's showing considerable promise by ignoring as much damage to WTC7 as he doesn't want to admit to. So it looks like a classic match here. Any thoughts, Jerry, on who'll be the winner in this bout?"

"Well, Gary, there's a big purse up for grabs today, but I'd expect Richard Gage will walk away with it. He always does."

"And thoughts on the loser?"

"Well, Gary, I think we all know who the losers are. Ha ha ha ha ha."

"Ha ha ha ha ha. Well, viewers, Jerry and I will be your commentary team for the whole of the bout, so let's look forward to some really world class ignoring today."
 
"Well, Jerry, it looks like we've got a classic thruther ignore-off match in progress here."

"Yes, Gary, the competitors have made some good initial moves already. Looks like an entertaining game in prospect."

"Just for all you viewers out there, I'll explain the rules. The aim is to ignore as much of the evidence as possible, so each player takes it in turn to state that a piece of evidence is faked, or misinterpret what it means, or simply pretend it doesn't exist. The winner is the one who can ignore the most evidence without going so far that the rest of the truthers call him a disinformation agent."

"And what about negative or inferential evidence, Gary?"

"Good point, Jerry. It all counts. Pretending there were explosions although nobody could see or hear them is a classic move, so is saying people heard explosions but conveniently forgetting that they were after the collapses, or about an hour before them. It all scores points.

"So who are our competitors today, Gary?"

"Well, in the blue corner, we've got Tony "The Jolt" Szamboti, an old hand at the game. Some of the evidence truthers just routinely ignore these days, he was the first to ignore; a real innovator at the sport. And in the... not sure what colour it is, maybe fuchsia with a dash of taupe - we've got the new contender, MicahJava. Untested, but he's showing considerable promise by ignoring as much damage to WTC7 as he doesn't want to admit to. So it looks like a classic match here. Any thoughts, Jerry, on who'll be the winner in this bout?"

"Well, Gary, there's a big purse up for grabs today, but I'd expect Richard Gage will walk away with it. He always does."

"And thoughts on the loser?"

"Well, Gary, I think we all know who the losers are. Ha ha ha ha ha."

"Ha ha ha ha ha. Well, viewers, Jerry and I will be your commentary team for the whole of the bout, so let's look forward to some really world class ignoring today."

Edited by Agatha: 
Removed breach of rule 12. As an aside, do not attempt to bypass the autocensor. As it happens, neither mental or masturbation are on the naughty list, but as a general rule in the public sections please remember to type all sweary-type words out in full and correctly spelled. If they are on the list, they will be censored.
 
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So in round numbers, being somewhat parsimonious, thats 's upwards of 500 explosives charges that just were not all that loud.

It sounds like you have no argument against the point that the dynamics of the collapse of WTC 7 show it had to be controlled demolition.
Actually that has been addressed several times by different posters, including me. just not in the post you quoted.
Your quoting my post above, and then simply ignoring it demonstrates that you have no explanation as to why well upwards of 500 near simultaneous explosive detonations did not get recorded on any media, blow windows out of WTC 7 or eject dust.

I find it interesting that you didn't even know how many core columns were in WTC 7 when you first said it would be 15 columns x 8 stories above (after JsanderO showed he didn't know either). It is somewhat telling.
When did I say that?
I took JSO's numbers at face value and note the correction by multiple posters, including you. I also note that although the corrected numbers simply INCREASE the number of supposed explosive detonations, you have decided to continue to ignore the niggling detail of "hush-a-booms".
 
The aircraft impacts were used as causal ruses to blame outsiders. The act of planting charges would at the very least necessitate insider complicity of some sort. Blaming it on the airplanes headed off any investigation into who planted charges to satisfy the public.

Really? That did not happen with the first WTC bombing. Granted it was a lo-tech attempt but to borrow from a truther playbook, all it would take is a few guys dressed up as elevator repair guys working through the night to install these explosives.
Sure an investigation would ensue, and find that a contractor had been in the building and that it had ties to Al-Q,,, etc., etc., etc. THAT would be more chilling to the public than any down and dirty suicide hijacking. You go to work one day and your building explodes and collapses without warning, or even time to evacuate. Imagine how many more would have been killed if the building simply collapsed. With the planes, at least there were thousands of people who managed to get out of every WTC building before the twins and #7 went down. How many people were in the Marriot, WTC 5, 6, 7, or in the streets at the time Tony? All dead if the building collapses without warning. Talk about a shut down of American society...................
 
Any good prosecutor will tell you that knowing someone's motive is not necessary to prove they committed a certain act.
Says the guy who cannot come up with any coherent motive for destroying a building(s) that few people even knew existed, and which resulted in no deaths at all.

You seem to be using your lack of knowing what the motives were to try and convince yourself that the evidence for controlled demolition can't be, even though it is very significant.

You first have to show some actual evidence for explosive use. So far its nothing but weak tea. With such weak evidence for explosive use, most of it made up out of thin air (FF=CD for eg.) it would behoove AE911T to at least come up with a solid motive for the destruction of WTC7.

How could Al-Qaeda wire WTC 7 or the Twin Towers for that matter?

Because brown people who live in caves.....right?
 
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Tony,
A tall building such as 7 dropping... with parts moving as they did is not any sort of proof of CD... The movement is gravity driven and related to the structure and how parts of it failed and the sequence which they did. That is it was a progression of failures until all parts lost support.

On the other hand none of the tell tale signs of a controlled intentional demolition are visible or heard... So a collapsing building may LOOK LIKE a building collapse using demolition devices... and it WOULD look like one... because they are both gravity driven... but the initiation mechanisms are different. Standard CD devices could not be missed. The default is therefore that there were none.

If you can describe how non traditional devices were employed this could be discussed.

However, to isolate this building's collapse from the fact that planes were hijacked which led to the collapse of 1 and 2 wtc... it seems absurd to think that 7wtc was a CD when the others were not.
 
Tony,
A tall building such as 7 dropping... with parts moving as they did is not any sort of proof of CD... The movement is gravity driven and related to the structure and how parts of it failed and the sequence which they did. That is it was a progression of failures until all parts lost support.

On the other hand none of the tell tale signs of a controlled intentional demolition are visible or heard... So a collapsing building may LOOK LIKE a building collapse using demolition devices... and it WOULD look like one... because they are both gravity driven... but the initiation mechanisms are different. Standard CD devices could not be missed. The default is therefore that there were none.

If you can describe how non traditional devices were employed this could be discussed.

However, to isolate this building's collapse from the fact that planes were hijacked which led to the collapse of 1 and 2 wtc... it seems absurd to think that 7wtc was a CD when the others were not.

I don't think any of the telltale signs of coherent discussion are observed in what you and many others write on this forum trying to deny the three obvious high-rise controlled demolitions that occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001.

We are living in a La La Land with this farce and people like you are unwittingly trying to keep it from being fully exposed for what it was. Your comments on the collapses are nothing short of ridiculous.
 
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I don't think any of the telltale signs of coherent discussion are observed in what you and many others write on this forum trying to deny the three obvious high-rise controlled demolitions that occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001.

We are living in a La La Land with this farce and people like you are unwittingly trying to keep it from being fully exposed for what it was. Your comments on the collapses are nothing short of ridiculous.

Obvious collapses which which share the fact that they were gravity driven... as all collapses are.

There is nothing obvious that they were controlled demolitions. No tell tale signs distinguishing a collapse from a CD collapse.
 
Keep your posts civil and focused on the arguments, please.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha
 
Obvious collapses which which share the fact that they were gravity driven... as all collapses are.

There is nothing obvious that they were controlled demolitions. No tell tale signs distinguishing a collapse from a CD collapse.

The dynamics of the collapses, such as, the simultaneous free fall by all four corners of the roof of WTC 7 and the continuous acceleration of the North Tower's upper section, are in fact different than what would have to be observed in a natural collapse. These types of motions in a collapse can only be induced by artificial removal of structural integrity. This is because a gravity only propagation requires deceleration to gain an amplified load, break up the structure, and keep on moving if the impact load is sufficient to overcome the energy absorption due to deformation.

The fact that you ignore, or don't understand this, is why I say your comments are ridiculous.
 
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"Well, Jerry, it looks like we've got a classic thruther ignore-off match in progress here."

"Yes, Gary, the competitors have made some good initial moves already. Looks like an entertaining game in prospect."

"Just for all you viewers out there, I'll explain the rules. The aim is to ignore as much of the evidence as possible, so each player takes it in turn to state that a piece of evidence is faked, or misinterpret what it means, or simply pretend it doesn't exist. The winner is the one who can ignore the most evidence without going so far that the rest of the truthers call him a disinformation agent."

"And what about negative or inferential evidence, Gary?"

"Good point, Jerry. It all counts. Pretending there were explosions although nobody could see or hear them is a classic move, so is saying people heard explosions but conveniently forgetting that they were after the collapses, or about an hour before them. It all scores points.

"So who are our competitors today, Gary?"

"Well, in the blue corner, we've got Tony "The Jolt" Szamboti, an old hand at the game. Some of the evidence truthers just routinely ignore these days, he was the first to ignore; a real innovator at the sport. And in the... not sure what colour it is, maybe fuchsia with a dash of taupe - we've got the new contender, MicahJava. Untested, but he's showing considerable promise by ignoring as much damage to WTC7 as he doesn't want to admit to. So it looks like a classic match here. Any thoughts, Jerry, on who'll be the winner in this bout?"

"Well, Gary, there's a big purse up for grabs today, but I'd expect Richard Gage will walk away with it. He always does."

"And thoughts on the loser?"

"Well, Gary, I think we all know who the losers are. Ha ha ha ha ha."

"Ha ha ha ha ha. Well, viewers, Jerry and I will be your commentary team for the whole of the bout, so let's look forward to some really world class ignoring today."

wtc7groove2.jpg


Dave, zoom in very closely on this picture. On the vertical black line, you can see the horizontal lines from the perimeter undisturbed. It's just cladding that got knocked off.
 
If this thread is only about collapse dynamics, ridiculous hush-a-boom stuff should be ignored. It could be verinage hydraulic devices for the sake of argument.
 
Dave, zoom in very closely on this picture. On the vertical black line, you can see the horizontal lines from the perimeter undisturbed. It's just cladding that got knocked off.

And yet lacks the vertical bars of the window frames we can see elsewhere.

Tell us, why would an object solid and heavy enough to fall and knock off the cladding adhere so religiously to that vertical line? Every impact with the rather substantial cladding panels would tend to force it away from the building.

How do explain it?
 
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If this thread is only about collapse dynamics, ridiculous hush-a-boom stuff should be ignored. It could be verinage hydraulic devices for the sake of argument.

The people here who want to deny controlled demolition is what explains the collapses can't argue the dynamics, so they invariably move to other things.

You are right that Verinage type techniques could have been used. We don't know for sure and that is why I usually say "some form of demolition devices were used". The dynamics do show structural integrity was being artificially removed. There is no getting around that.
 
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The dynamics of the collapses, such as, the simultaneous free fall by all four corners of the roof of WTC 7 and the continuous acceleration of the North Tower's upper section, are in fact different than what would have to be observed in a natural collapse. These types of motions in a collapse can only be induced by artificial removal of structural integrity. This is because a gravity only propagation requires deceleration to gain an amplified load, break up the structure, and keep on moving if the impact load is sufficient to overcome the energy absorption due to deformation.

The fact that you ignore, or don't understand this, is why I say your comments are ridiculous.

You don't need artificial removal of structural integrity. You had a plane do some of it and fire do the rest leading to the mis alignment of the axial system.. or loss of support / no resistance... and the motion would be the same as if you artificially got rid of the columns.
 
Motive? LOL, I don't want you to provide motive, I want evidence Mr Bond

The aircraft impacts were used as causal ruses to blame outsiders.
And how did they do that? Now you added thousands of people in the fantasy plot of CD.

The act of planting charges would at the very least necessitate insider complicity of some sort.
Add more people to the plot, why stop with the reality of 19 and only four had to know the suicide plot, now we have hundreds to fake the airplane plot, hundred to plant explosives, silent explosives, and some which suck in the side of the WTC towers.

Blaming it on the airplanes headed off any investigation into who planted charges to satisfy the public.
Blaming it on the airplanes going 470 - 590 mph which damaged 6 to 10 core columns is to satisfy the public. Cold blooded murder of crew and passengers is to cover up the CD? Who is low down enough to do this, let alone make up the fantasy version of it? It appears the only people on earth who make up the CD lies are the kind of people who might do it; 911 truth followers imagine it was CD, must mean they would be ready to do it...

Any good prosecutor will tell you that knowing someone's motive is not necessary to prove they committed a certain act.
LOL, YES, this is true; What are you missing? Evidence.

You seem to be using your lack of knowing what the motives were to try and convince yourself that the evidence for controlled demolition can't be, even though it is very significant.
Motive, UBL said he would kill Americans, the 19 did it. I know the motive, suspected it at the second impact, the impact of Flight 175 which you say was a ruse... lol, can you prove it, got Evidence? No, you have a growing fantasy of woo based on BS.

How could Al-Qaeda wire WTC 7 or the Twin Towers for that matter?
Gee, how could anyone wire 7 WTC? Only Al-Qaeda can keep a secret, can your evil MIB NWO people you can't name not only murder four aircraft with crew and passengers, fake the 19 identities, and wire 1, 2, 7 WTC? Blow up the Pentagon, and have absolute proof, aka now fake proof for your delusional fantasy, the Passengers saved the next target by attacking the cockpit, and your fake terrorists panicked and decided to die there, in PA? Gee, I can't wait for the SIOP of your fantasy.

Those who did it used the airplanes to blame Al-Qaeda for the twin towers and the public bought it.
Tony, that is reality, 19 murderers did fly the planes and murder. That is what the evidence says. "Any good prosecutor will tell you that" you need evidence, and simile is not evidence of CD, it is evidence someone does not understand simile. Too bad you have no evidence for CD, a wire, some left over charges, some blast effects on steel, the sounds of explosives... etc.

With WTC 7 they only have fires and taking that shortcut has been causing them problems in trying to deflect from the insider angle.
Fire is all you need to damage steel. But deny it, you have to deny it to have the never ending BS story you outline in these few posts.

Larry Silverstein has even taken to saying the 360 foot tall North Tower antenna hit WTC 7, even though all videos of its fall clearly show it falling to the southeast, in the opposite direction of WTC 7.
Wow, a Gish Gallop to Larry, got to add Larry S. if you are going to head off in to tangential symetrical free-fall land of woo, the fantasy of CD. A token Larry statement, has to be added to complete the fantasy.
I don't think any of the telltale signs of coherent discussion are observed in what you and many others write on this forum trying to deny the three obvious high-rise controlled demolitions that occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001.
Really, you have turned what really happen, four planes used as weapons to kill Americans for UBL, and say it was a ruse. Coherent? There is no way you can explain your version without going full blown fantasy on us.
You offer zero evidence for CD, and claim it was CD.

We are living in a La La Land with this farce and people like you are unwittingly trying to keep it from being fully exposed for what it was. Your comments on the collapses are nothing short of ridiculous.
You are living in La La Fantasy CD Land, where simile, saying it sounded like, is all the evidence you will ever have for CD. And simile is not evidence for CD, it is evidence some use BS to make up the inside job of CD. A fantasy of CD based on zero evidence.

The dynamics of the collapses, such as, the symmetric (all four corners of the roof) free fall of WTC 7...
The collapse was not symmetrical, stop saying this; it ruins your evidence free CD claims and exposes you don't understand symmetry. But on the other hand, be sure you only show the collapse from far away so the non-symmetry will be less observable.

continuous acceleration of the North Tower,
Gee, the towers fell as if they were destroying each floor, and you forgot, the core did not have a continuous acceleration, thus you are spreading a lie. The core stood for nearly 20 seconds, thus the continuous acceleration is BS, to distract faith based followers who don't look, don't research, don't think. You can fool a lot of gullible followers with nonsense like this.

are in fact different than what would have to be observed in a natural collapse. These types of motions in a collapse can only be induced by artificially removal of structural integrity.
Wrong again. CD is a gravity collapse started with explosives or some means; on 9/11 the collapses were started by the effects of fire. Avoid this staement for your future discussion, it makes your claim look silly, as if you had no clue E=mgh released in CD is more than an order of magnitude more energy than the tiny explosives used.

WTC towers released more energy than 100 2,000 pound bombs have, twice, once in each tower... thus you don't need explosives, as seen on 9/11.

The fact that you ignore, or don't understand this, is why I say your comments are ridiculous.
I understand clearly this is BS, and is exactly what happens in a "natural" collapse, called a gravity collapse. CD uses gravity to destroy the buildings, the same as a fire started collapse on 9/11. CD uses tiny amounts of explosives, gravity does the work. Thus the concrete, wallboard, and office contents were not blown up, they were crushed by E=mgh being released by fire damage, fire effects. These are the facts and the fantasy version of planes being a ruse, is a failed fantasy. Who planted your explosives which have no blast effects, no sounds, and act as if they were not there? lol

If this thread is only about collapse dynamics, ridiculous hush-a-boom stuff should be ignored. It could be verinage hydraulic devices for the sake of argument.
Wow, now someone set up Hydraulic Devices to do 9/11. That is more sane than the Nukes, DEW, and CD, but ... oops, not it is an extra stupid claim. Good job taking the collapse dynamics to a whole new fantasy level of woo.
You are saying instead of explosives which make no sounds of explosives, the collapses were started by NWO hydraulic devices. wow - you can't explain why there are no sounds of explosives? Why can't you supply evidence of CD?
Relax, you have no evidence; it is easy to keep the fantasy of CD, you don't have to do anything but ignore reality. CD, 14 years of lies and failed physics; No Evidence for 14 years. A record being set everyday forever.

The people here who want to deny controlled demolition is what explains the collapses can't argue the dynamics, so they invariably move to other things.

You are right that Verinage type techniques could have been used. We don't know for sure and that is why I usually say "some form of demolition devices were used". The dynamics do show structural integrity was being artificially removed. There is no getting around that.

Wow... more fantasy
 
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Dave, zoom in very closely on this picture. On the vertical black line, you can see the horizontal lines from the perimeter undisturbed. It's just cladding that got knocked off.

Are you another one of those strange people like Yankee451 who think the buildings had no interiors and were just hollow shells? If not, you may want to think what horizontal structures you might see behind a narrow region of perimeter wall that had been completely removed. It starts with an F.

Dave
 
You don't need artificial removal of structural integrity. You had a plane do some of it and fire do the rest leading to the mis alignment of the axial system.. or loss of support / no resistance... and the motion would be the same as if you artificially got rid of the columns.

The plane took out no more than 15% of the columns and the fires were not sufficient to do much more as NIST found no evidence of high temperatures on the steel.

Again, your comments are based on poppycock, just like your thinking the core of WTC 7 had just 15 columns.
 
The "gash" in the south face of 7 WTC is a void where Column #20 should be.

e85a775bef42578084f03a96a022ac93.jpg


1E4Wrej.png
 

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